is there an insulin limit ???

[Inour]

hi everyone,my consultant always say count your carbs and take insulin,she doesn't say a limit for insulin per day or any other things.but a lot of peaple told me that there are certain amount of units per kilo a person should take no more than them per day .
so i am 14 years old has any one got any ideas about that ?!

 

[ewelina]

I don't think there is any 'official' limit. Its very individual, some people are insulin resistant and take masses, some just couple of units. I personally don't like taking big amounts and avoid very carby meals. I don't really know if we can safely eat, lets say 300g of carbs in one go and take so much insulin in a single shot. I'm not going to test it though

 

[azure]

There are ways to estimate the insulin need for an 'average person' but we all take what we need to keep our blood sugars in the correct range. That might be a tiny amount of insulin a day or it might be a lot. It depends on the person.

 

[Mal291136]

After years of trial and error with insulin quantities my consultant has now settled on: 60 units @ breakfast and lunch; 64 units @ dinner (Novorapid) 80 units @ bedtime (Lantus)
He has said this is a lot of insulin but as it appears to be working he is happy for me to continue!

 

[lizziewizzie]

I had to take 17 units in one go the other day to cover my pizza binge. I was so nervous doing it as I hadn't been told of any limits etc. I was totally fine. I then checked with my nurse and she laughed, saying 'no, don't be silly, you take whatever you need to cover what you're going to eat and there is no limit per injection'. So I relaxed then! x

 

[funnyfan]

I have never been told of limits but since starting to lose weight and reduce insulin levels I have had no hypos. My sugar levels have also dropped on average so things looking good going into 2016.

 

[brendan101]

Good question! The average non diabetic produces 20-40 units a day in their body. The average diabetic needs 2-3 times more. The reason being in a non diabetic 65% of the glucose in a meal is absorbed and stored by the liver which is very able to take large glucose hits and store it as glycogen. The insulin released by a non diabetic travels a short distance to the liver where it talks to the liver and asks it to absorb the glucose loading from a meal. In a diabetic we inject insulin and this insulin floats around in our peripheral circulation and targets muscle and fat cells which have insulin receptors and which can absorb glucose. The liver plays little part in absorbing the glucose load as it doesn't receive a large enough dose of insulin to action it to store glucose from the meal. The interesting thing about the liver is that it can store or release glucose and therefore maintain a balance. We cannot because our liver is not able to function correctly. It really wants to and it has been shown to wake up again when given the correct signal.
For these reasons diabetics need to inject a lot of extra insulin to minimise glucose spikes after meals and then eat a snack 2 hours later due to the hypo risk of all the extra insulin floating around in the blood. Taking a lot of insulin can increase the risk of hypos which we obviously need to avoid but also as insulin is an anabolic hormone, it can cause us to gain weight. Becoming overweight desensitizes the body to insulin. That said everyone is different in terms of their metabolism, body composition and insulin sensitivity. Controlling blood glucose and maintaining a healthy weight are important.

 

[brendan101]

Here is an interesting take on how we can make our injectable insulin work like a normal pancreatic insulin:

http://www.tudiabetes.org/video/tud...with-robert-geho-the-livers-role-in-diabetes/

 

[viv k]

Good question! The average non diabetic produces 20-40 units a day in their body. The average diabetic needs 2-3 times more. The reason being in a non diabetic 65% of the glucose in a meal is absorbed and stored by the liver which is very able to take large glucose hits and store it as glycogen. The insulin released by a non diabetic travels a short distance to the liver where it talks to the liver and asks it to absorb the glucose loading from a meal. In a diabetic we inject insulin and this insulin floats around in our peripheral circulation and targets muscle and fat cells which have insulin receptors and which can absorb glucose. The liver plays little part in absorbing the glucose load as it doesn't receive a large enough dose of insulin to action it to store glucose from the meal. The interesting thing about the liver is that it can store or release glucose and therefore maintain a balance. We cannot because our liver is not able to function correctly. It really wants to and it has been shown to wake up again when given the correct signal.
For these reasons diabetics need to inject a lot of extra insulin to minimise glucose spikes after meals and then eat a snack 2 hours later due to the hypo risk of all the extra insulin floating around in the blood. Taking a lot of insulin can increase the risk of hypos which we obviously need to avoid but also as insulin is an anabolic hormone, it can cause us to gain weight. Becoming overweight desensitizes the body to insulin. That said everyone is different in terms of their metabolism, body composition and insulin sensitivity. Controlling blood glucose and maintaining a healthy weight are important.

Thanks for that interesting info Brendan. I've only been in insulin for 4 months and still got lots to learn. It's timing the snacks to suit the insulin (rather than my appetite) that is taking a bit of getting used to. Easy enough during the normal working week, bit harder during the holiday season.

 

[videoman]

Hi there, There is no limit ,the dose of insulin should match your glucose reading to enable you to keep them in the "normal" range.
I have been a Diabetic for 55 years now and my doses have always followed my glucose readings

 

[Deleted Account]

Good question! The average non diabetic produces 20-40 units a day in their body. The average diabetic needs 2-3 times more. The reason being in a non diabetic 65% of the glucose in a meal is absorbed and stored by the liver which is very able to take large glucose hits and store it as glycogen. The insulin released by a non diabetic travels a short distance to the liver where it talks to the liver and asks it to absorb the glucose loading from a meal. In a diabetic we inject insulin and this insulin floats around in our peripheral circulation and targets muscle and fat cells which have insulin receptors and which can absorb glucose. The liver plays little part in absorbing the glucose load as it doesn't receive a large enough dose of insulin to action it to store glucose from the meal. The interesting thing about the liver is that it can store or release glucose and therefore maintain a balance. We cannot because our liver is not able to function correctly. It really wants to and it has been shown to wake up again when given the correct signal.
For these reasons diabetics need to inject a lot of extra insulin to minimise glucose spikes after meals and then eat a snack 2 hours later due to the hypo risk of all the extra insulin floating around in the blood. Taking a lot of insulin can increase the risk of hypos which we obviously need to avoid but also as insulin is an anabolic hormone, it can cause us to gain weight. Becoming overweight desensitizes the body to insulin. That said everyone is different in terms of their metabolism, body composition and insulin sensitivity. Controlling blood glucose and maintaining a healthy weight are important.

Does this statement that "the average diabetic needs 2 -3 times more" refer to type 1, type 2, gestational, ... or all types of diabetes. I ask because I have type 1 diabetes, because I am pretty active, I do not restrict my carb intake and I inject the same amount of insulin as the average non-diabetic produces. All I have read about type 1 explains storage of glucose into giucagon in the liver as you describe. I have good BG control and have no need to snack 2 hours after meals to avoid hypos.
I appreciate everyone is different but I suspect your research is related to type 2 diabetes. Furthermore, as lnour (who posed the initial question) is 14, she is more likely to have type 1 diabetes. Therefore, in my experience, your statement does not apply.

 

[brendan101]

Does this statement that "the average diabetic needs 2 -3 times more" refer to type 1, type 2, gestational, ... or all types of diabetes. I ask because I have type 1 diabetes, because I am pretty active, I do not restrict my carb intake and I inject the same amount of insulin as the average non-diabetic produces. All I have read about type 1 explains storage of glucose into giucagon in the liver as you describe. I have good BG control and have no need to snack 2 hours after meals to avoid hypos.
I appreciate everyone is different but I suspect your research is related to type 2 diabetes. Furthermore, as lnour (who posed the initial question) is 14, she is more likely to have type 1 diabetes. Therefore, in my experience, your statement does not apply.

Hi Helen. Thanks for your comment. By the average diabetic I mean the average type one diabetic who is most likely producing none of their own insulin. With the other types you describe these people would produce some of their own insulin. There are formulas out there to predict the quantity of insulin people should inject but I am unaware of their reliability. I would always say if you need more to control your levels then you need more. One thing for sure is that diabetes affects everyone in different ways and there are other correction factors necessary such as individual insulin to carb ratios and individual ratios to bring BG levels back into range. Many diabetics need 2-3 times more than 40 units. I currently inject 74 units per day but I know people who inject 100 plus and it works for them. In general diabetics need to inject more than what a healthy non diabetic would need. How much more you go with be dependent on BG control, your diet and exercise. The need to minimise hypos is important as is the ability to be hypo aware.

 

[Big_Col]

Long time T1, recently on this forum. 30 units a day is not uncommon for me. In the past I used to take over 80 units. Wondering how exercise effects it; current job is exercising!

 

[Juicyj]

Hi Col - depends on the exercise type and duration, but you would look to reduce your bolus and also be careful after exercise as the body burns through glucose at a faster rate so watch out for hypos.

Look at http://www.runsweet.com/ for info/advice

 

[Inour]

thank you all very much for your advises.it really helps me

 

[RuthW]

Sorry, but the idea that the 'average diabetic' needs between 60 and 140 units a day is complete nonsense. We did a quick survey on here a while back. It was ad hoc, but most of us were on around 30 units a day. Brendan is often here advocating the use of Afrezza, an inhalable insulin, whose efficacy is much lower than injectable insulin. 10 units of Afrezza works like about 3 units of apidra/novorapid. So if you are inhaling your insulin, you may need as much as Brendan says. If you are injecting, it is much less.

 

[RuthW]

To answer the OPs question more directly, your individual dose reflects your weight, but also the proportion of muscle on your body and your fitness, as these affect your insulin sensitivity. Your age and activity level also affect it, as does climate and diet.

 

[brendan101]

Hi Ruth,

Thanks for your comment. As I have said before, every diabetic is different and doses are dependent on many factors some of which you have highlighted in your second comment above. I sent a link above from Diasome and it is well recognised that an insulin dependent diabetic injects more insulin than an equivalent non diabetic produces each day. Some of the reasons for this is covered in the link above. That said it's quite feasible that an insulin dependent diabetic could survive on 30 units a day but it could be argued that this is 10 units more than what they would need if they were producing endogenous insulin. The average non diabetic produces between 20 and 40 units a day.
This thread does not relate to the inhalable insulin Afrezza. I am referring to injectable Humalog/Novolog that's available over here. I have not used Apidra but I understand it has a similar profile. I have used Afrezza inhalable insulin and have had a life changing experience with it in terms of my energy levels soaring and feeling of wellness as I generally don't feel well a lot of the time despite having a good HbA1c of 6.2%. I have discussed Afrezza in another post on here. My weight was also much better and I ate only when hungry. My appetite was less. There is no need to carb count or worry too much about exact dosing with Afrezza because the body is able to process Afrezza in a similar way to the insulin that used to be made by the pancreas where the liver balances the BG level. I had non diabetic levels and was in range as the insulin is super fast acting and clears the symptom within an hour so no lows or rebounds later. I had much less low BG too. This was without trying too much either. All of this was liberating.

 

[Dannyb87]

Well I take 28 units of levemir a day... 2 units of novorapid to eat would be a problem for me! Lol, I normally try and stick to under 10 units, most days, but I had that just for my Sunday dinner I cooked the other day!
That afressa sounds interesting, I'd never heard about it before, I think I will look into it, thanks for the info

 

[Kristin251]

HIGHLY individual. I am T1 and produce NO insulin and I take 1 unit Novolog with meals and 2-3 Lantus at night with an A1C of 5.1 . We need to be very careful advising 'averages'. It depends on way too many things and as said, the OP is 14! We need to be very careful about 'averages'. I 'd be dead if I injected those 'averages' and I am 51