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LCHF 23:1

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by BoggyBimbleJr, Feb 22, 2017.

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  1. BoggyBimbleJr

    BoggyBimbleJr Type 2 · Member

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    Question: If i eat a low carbohydrate diet on a 23:1 routine (so I just have one meal a day of, for example, steak, savoy cabbage and butternut squash at around 6pm, which gives me a total calorie count of around 800 calories), am I fasting every day or just on a reduced calorie diet?

    Since being diagnosed with T2, I did a low carbohydrate diet for the first three weeks and I lost over a stone in weight. For the last two weeks I have added 30 minutes fast cycling on a turbo trainer every day and the weight loss has reduced to just an extra 5lbs over the two weeks. Is this because my metabolism has reduced? Should I just go for a walk every day instead of doing the cycling?
     
  2. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    You are doing both - intermittent fasting and low calorie.

    I am not understanding why you are doing this though as you seem to be concentrating on weight loss, and you were doing well on low carbs. People always lose more weight in the first week or so of dieting, most of which is fluid. When the excess fluid has gone, the weight loss drops, and if you have lost 5lbs in the last 2 weeks, that is excellent and how it should be.

    As for the cycling and turbo trainer, or walking, it is whichever floats your boat. Exercise will tone up your muscles, which is good, but it won't have much effect on weight loss.
     
  3. Squire Fulwood

    Squire Fulwood Type 2 · Expert

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    Whatever floats your boat. It has been shown that exercise has a very limited effect on weight loss compared to diet. I totally respect that some people like to exercise to keep fit but if they are doing it to lose weight then there may be a problem.

    Having said that then walking is a good way to lower your blood sugar reading and as I have said, it's a good way not to be a couch potato but disregard it in the weight loss department.
     
  4. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I've tried various intermittent fasting regimes, and i (regrettably) fell into the 23:1 pattern Monday-Friday for most of last Autumn. It slowed my metabolism significantly, while giving me good blood glucose readings.

    Without knowing you, your previous diet habits, and your unique metabolism, none of us can say whether your metabolism will slow on this regime or not. Or how long it will take. But you are, without doubt, on a IF low calorie combo and are risking it.

    I won't go that route again, but (as others have said) if you are happy with your boat floating that way downstream, then go for it.

    Regarding the exercise, have you read Fung's blog entry on the Biggest Losers? That alone would put me off the regime you have adopted. Very harsh on the body, possibly not enough protein, a fast track to metabolic slow down, and risking long term metabolic consequences.

    I've never gone down the excessive exercise route (thank goodness, i have enough joint damage without adding that too), but i did mess up my metabolism with low cal diets in the 80s, and i am still dealing with the consequences. I really should have known better than to try the 23:1 shouldn't I?
     
  5. Jamesuk9

    Jamesuk9 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    As I understood it, Fung is an advocate of IF, has this changed?
     
  6. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Sorry - meant to add (but got distracted by doorbell):

    In your situation, if you want to carry on severe dieting and exercise, i would mix it up. One day 23:1, next day 3 meals of 2000 cals, next day skip lunch. Keep your body guessing.

    Same random routine with exercise, so that it (your body) never gets complacent and powers down. At least 2 days complete rest a week. Varying cardio and weights. Never the same twice in a row, and with the eating pattern on a different schedule.

    Hard work, but your metabolism won't get a chance to shut down!
     
  7. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Read the blog post and you will understand
     
  8. Jamesuk9

    Jamesuk9 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, so... It's not IF that is an issue, it's caloric reduction that causes issues.

    I've been on an IF regime for years, eating once daily but I take in high calorie during my eating window.

    Varying it up as you say is very pertinent though... Today as an example, I ate breakfast after fasting for 24hrs yesterday. I ate 2 hard boiled eggs and a chunk of cheese and my levels have remained low all day. I will eat again this evening.

    I'm a firm advocate now of eating when my body tells me I'm hungry, otherwise I go without.

    Who knows what effect this has on my metabolism but it's sustainable for me and I feel well and energetic mostly.
     
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  9. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    Surely the most relevant thing to tell us on this forum is how your blood glucose has been altered by what you are doing.
    It is possible to reduce BG to normal levels - not necessarily by such punishing regimes as some apply to themselves, so we know it can be done - so how are your readings going?
     
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  10. Jamesuk9

    Jamesuk9 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, assuming you're talking to me, I'm averaging 5.8/5.9 week on week according to my meter.

    My last A1C indicated avg 6.3 using conversion charts.

    Not as well as I'd hoped to be honest, DP was a big issue but is improving.

    I don't view how I eat as punishing, I've done it for decades. It's normal to me.
     
  11. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    Does your average of 5.8/9 include all your post meals, as many as your before meals? If so, that is brilliant.
     
  12. Jamesuk9

    Jamesuk9 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, altho I don't always check at one hour as it scares me lol but always check at 2 hours. I generally check about 15 times a day. If I can keep my a1c at 38 or below I'll be happy.
     
  13. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I was more interested in the OP - we must all eat what suits us and is effective in reducing BG levels.
    I ran ate only bacon and eggs for my first meal - I usually add some carbs to each meal - and saw 4.9 mmol/l on the meter - was cold and tired too, so going so low isn't good for me when I have to do housework.
    I try to keep my maximum readings, after meals, to 8.2 or below, which is usually right - but I try to minimise peaks, so spread out my eating rather than concentrating it.
    Your average is good - I was just concerned that it could be averaging out large peaks.
     
  14. BoggyBimbleJr

    BoggyBimbleJr Type 2 · Member

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    The nurse said I had to lose weight by going on a diet and doing more exercise. She said I should eat the same meals but have lower portions and cut out sugar, but I decided to just go low carb instead. She also said I would lose a lot more weight if I did at least 30 minutes of high intensity exercise every day

    Thanks, that sounds like a good plan. So one day a walk, the next day an upper body workout, the next day cycling, the next day a lower body and core workout, then a walk again etc. and with the diet, perhaps one day a big fried breakfast and a light tea and the next day a couple of boiled eggs for breakfast and a large low carb evening meal. As you say, keep the body guessing.
     
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  15. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    Well you know she was wrong about her eating suggestions. How do you know she was right about her exercise suggestions?

    The increasing exercise pushed out on us is to help lower insulin resistance, not to lose weight. Walking is just as effective for this. However, if you enjoy the exercise and it doesn't cause you any problems, then continue, but eat more sensibly if you do.
     
  16. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    You may well find that high intensity exercise increases your BG levels - though it is from your own reserves and will eventually be put back there if not used by your muscles. It could impact your Hba1c results.
     
  17. BoggyBimbleJr

    BoggyBimbleJr Type 2 · Member

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    When I was diagnosed my HbA1c was 68, which an online conversion says is 8.4%. Unfortunately a brand new Exactive BG Meter which I bought a couple of days after being diagnosed packed up after I had only used it four times (once a week) and I am waiting for the replacement (a Codefree one) to arrive, so I have no idea what my reading is.
     
  18. BoggyBimbleJr

    BoggyBimbleJr Type 2 · Member

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    Perhaps I should concentrate on the low carb for the first three months to get my BG down, as the nurse said she wanted it to be below 55 by my next blood test in April or she would put me on Metformin and and below 48 three months later or I would be injecting with Insulin (though after reading what Jason Fung says about Insulin I shall be tearing that prescription up), and leave the exercise until later and just go for a walk every day
     
  19. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I have cross referenced that exercise aids weight reduction by 15 - 20% with diet making up the rest. Many advocate not exercising during the initial stages of weight loss save for maybe walking. This of course is nuanced, and not my view. I was relatively high carb after diagnosis and trained 3 times a day at high intensity. I would do both cycling and walking within the same day (I use a quality static cycle), but for both do intervals if you can.

    Last Friday I did a 23 hour fast and loved it (I could have gone the whole 24 but my lovely wife had cooked a family meal). My gateway to the fast was LCHF satiety.
     
  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Not sure how low carb you are going but your HbA1c will almost certainly be lower after 3 months of following this way of eating... Your nurse sounds like she was trying to shock you into action which certainly has seemed to work although she was a bit OTT. Personally I wouldn't go too low calorie for the reasons stated above. Your Codefree meter will become your best friend. Use it often in the first few months.
     
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