You already said keto doesn't work for you because you can't stick to it. I can stick to a low cal diet and it still doesn't work for me. Keto isn't my preferred dietary choice. It's the only one that works. If I want to keep my limbs I need keto. I tried vegan and that was disastrous for my BGs. You dismiss the subject of BGs as if weight is the only important thing for T2s. Anyhow I know you won't change so this is a waste of time. You think you know everything about weight loss. I won't change back to low cal because I don't 'do' diets anymore. I prefer to aim to be well. Maybe one day you will understand that those who live with a condition day in, day out, know more about it than you.
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Links to studies supporting Low Carb/showing calorie restriction ineffective?
- Thread starter pdmjoker
- Start Date
You already said keto doesn't work for you because you can't stick to it. I can stick to a low cal diet and it still doesn't work for me. Keto isn't my preferred dietary choice. It's the only one that works. If I want to keep my limbs I need keto. I tried vegan and that was disastrous for my BGs. You dismiss the subject of BGs as if weight is the only important thing for T2s. Anyhow I know you won't change so this is a waste of time. You think you know everything about weight loss. I won't change back to low cal because I don't 'do' diets anymore. I prefer to aim to be well. Maybe one day you will understand that those who live with a condition day in, day out, know more about it than you.
The last qualification I did was with https://www.mac-nutritionuni.com/
I've also completed courses with the Association for Nutrition and I'm insured.
I'm not particularly focused on any one field of nutrition, most of my clients are fat loss focused, although I've also worked with athletes, physique competitors and those with conditions such as PCOS and diabetes. I've purposely not shared any of my business links here so that I'm not accused of using the forum as free press or trying to sell anything.
lucylocket61
Expert
This thread has gone from "CICO is the gold standard and works for everyone and if it doesnt people are either too stupid to work out how to count properly or people are lying" to "yes, it works for some people, I never said it wouldnt"
no reasoning with some people. I'm going to use my time more productively.
no reasoning with some people. I'm going to use my time more productively.
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Walking Girl
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 314
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Diet only
Vegan and ketogenic diets are not mutually exclusive. I have no idea why people keep spread this myth.
I know that. That wasn't what I was saying. I was answering ATZ by saying that I have tried vegan (btw both keto vegan and high carb vegan ) and it wasn't for me. I only mentioned vegan because he did. I could never even try carnivore because I don't like meat enough.
I have no argument with anyone's chosen diet but I do take exception to ATZ telling me I don't count calories properly and that the reason I lose weight on low carb is because I also reduce cals by going low carb. I know that is not the case.
HSSS
Expert
HSSS
Expert
HSSS
Expert
I agree. Not sure why I keep getting sucked back in other than I feel sorry for his clients. It’s this sort of closed mind thinking that got so many people into the mess they are now. The insistence that calories are king and weight is the only factor in diabetes and that “failure” is our own fault for not sticking to calorie counting well enough. Please if I get drawn back in someone please beat me around the head, it’ll be less painful.
Yep that goes for me too....
No. The most important thing is to keep BG levels down to 'normal' levels.
Yes. Losing weight without cutting calories has turned our understanding of bodyweight regulation on its head!!!! We have done it. We know it to be true. I suggest you get the evidence from advising your T2 clients to do what we do.
Yep beating myself round the head now so you guys don't have to.
Yes. Losing weight without cutting calories has turned our understanding of bodyweight regulation on its head!!!! We have done it. We know it to be true. I suggest you get the evidence from advising your T2 clients to do what we do.
Yep beating myself round the head now so you guys don't have to.
copilost
Well-Known Member
I have a bat.........?
Yes please. It has to be less painful than this.
lucylocket61
Expert
Yes, I have recently been investigating adding some vegan foods to my diet.
However, I understood @zand 's point to be about having, like me, tried both vegan and keto at different times, and not finding it worked with our metabolism. So I now have a mixed diet, some vegetarian meals, a few vegan meals, some dairy and white meat and fish at times too. And I cant manage keto at all, of any type
edited cos i cant spell.
lucylocket61
Expert
hmmmmmmmmmm............."bats" was a word springing to my mind a few mins ago....................cant think why!
Guzzler
Master
- Messages
- 10,577
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Diet only
- Dislikes
- Poor grammar, bullying and drunks.
Yes they can. This is called metabolic flexibility. Again though Ketone use is the back up rather than primary fuel.
You didn't answer my question as to why this is.
Guzzler
Master
- Messages
- 10,577
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Diet only
- Dislikes
- Poor grammar, bullying and drunks.
With regard to answering questions perhaps you would care to answer those I have asked previously.
I suggest that ketosis within metabolic flexibility is the bodies preferred fuel. Have you seen the research on Type 3 Diabetes?
There is emerging evidence that exogenous ketone therapy may be useful for those with early stage Alzheimer's disease.
While the human body can run on the three available sources of energy, I suggest that using ketones is a cleaner more efficient fuel than glucose and one of the proceses being studied now is the downregulation that happens when ketones are metabolised something that does not happen with glucose. We can run on fats and protein, we can run without exogenous glucose.
Edited typos.
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Dark Horse
Well-Known Member
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- 1,840
I think there may be some misunderstandings within this thread. If someone says CICO holds true, that is not the same as saying that LCHF does not work for weight loss. Although people following LCHF do not explicitly count calories, they may reduce their calorie intake without realising it, for example due to effects on appetite.
I've lost the link, unfortunately, but there was a study that actually measured the calorie intake of people who were following an Atkins diet and eating to satiety. It was found that people did lose weight on the diet but that they had inadvertently reduced their calorie intake. It's thought that LCHF may work in the same way - for weight loss. It would be interesting to see some studies which actually measured this. Home measurements are not really accurate enough.
Although weight-loss may lead to improved control of blood glucose, it's worth remembering that 'type 2' is somewhat of an umbrella term and includes different sub-types of diabetes. Someone who is recently-diagnosed and overweight may be able to go into remission by losing weight on a low-calorie diet, as shown by the research involving the Newcastle Diet. It may even work for people who reduce their BMI from the upper part of the normal range to the lower part of the normal range. However, this approach won't work for some people, for example those who have low insulin output due to monogenic diabetes.
I've lost the link, unfortunately, but there was a study that actually measured the calorie intake of people who were following an Atkins diet and eating to satiety. It was found that people did lose weight on the diet but that they had inadvertently reduced their calorie intake. It's thought that LCHF may work in the same way - for weight loss. It would be interesting to see some studies which actually measured this. Home measurements are not really accurate enough.
Although weight-loss may lead to improved control of blood glucose, it's worth remembering that 'type 2' is somewhat of an umbrella term and includes different sub-types of diabetes. Someone who is recently-diagnosed and overweight may be able to go into remission by losing weight on a low-calorie diet, as shown by the research involving the Newcastle Diet. It may even work for people who reduce their BMI from the upper part of the normal range to the lower part of the normal range. However, this approach won't work for some people, for example those who have low insulin output due to monogenic diabetes.
