Low Carb High Fat?

trotskyite said:

Please don't rely on medical advice from this forum it is replete with bro-science and wishful thinking.

Click to expand...

So... let me see "normalised" blood sugar levels, "normalised" fasting insulin levels and "normal" reaction to an OGTT.
Thanks heavens for bro science and wishful thinking ...what powerful tools in our armoury they are. Oh yeah and the 8 stone weight loss...

What the hell is "bro science"?

I think someone needs to read Malcolm Kendrick's 'Doctoring Data' instead of acting like a sniper i.e drops a comment then leaves before the fall out.

Dwaffy said:

Thank you Robbity, I guess we have had low fat to no fat programmed into us for soo long its hard to get the confidence to re-learn a new strategy.

Click to expand...

I was so pleased to read this post. I am 61 years old, fairly fit and have been pretty sporty all my adult life. Could not understand why i struggled with my weight for years, when following the high carb low fat diets and excrcise programmes recommended to me by the sports centres and various health clinics and doctors. Lo and behold, in my early fifties i became insulin resistant and developed T2 about 6 years ago. All that pasta? All those low fat snacks which were crammed with carbs....... I now follow a LCHF diet, but i had a LOT of trouble getting my head around it after YEARS of counting fat grams. Totally the wrong sort of diet for me. .

Dwaffy said:

This has all left me quite confused, shouldI go Lchf or just stick to my diet from my GP and DESMOND course?

Click to expand...

Sorry to have caused confusion but so many of us have had success with cutting carbs that someone always has to come and be different. We are all unique so you have to try what you think you can stick to. Personally I love meat so find low carb very easy. I lost a lot of weight and controlled my blood sugars very well whilst doing it so I would always advocate trying that first. Give it a month or two and see how you get on. It needs to be something you can stick to.

We can only say what works for us, as it is what we are living with - I have normal numbers now, I have a meter and test from time to time, and I avoid dense carb foods.
If you get one of the mail order meters with low cost strips you can do pre and post meal test and see what works.
For me, once I got my post meal numbers down the same meals then affected me less and less as the months went by - I still have not got over my Christmas Day reading of 5.6mmol/l after dinner.

Dwaffy said:

Thank you CherryAA, I am new to this forum, there is so much confusing data on the internet of do's and dont's, but the LCHF diet seems fairley straight forward, its just the fat and cholesterol side of things I was unsure about as I have always kept to low or no fat everything for years before I was diagnosed, so getting my head around this was difficult, but it's worth a go.

Click to expand...

It does not have to be high saturated fat good oils olives avocados sardines or any tinned fish are all good sources of fat

JohnEGreen said:

It would seem to me that the advise you had followed for so long that is highish carbs and low fat is precisely what has brought you here. We all for the most part were taken in by that.

Click to expand...

If that was case there would be no one left on the planet that doesn't have diabetes. Some will eat high carbs all their lives and never get diabetes. There is far more to why some get it and some don't than just food

Dwaffy said:

That is true John, I am learning a lot on this forum already, there are so many conflicting articles out there and I can see from reading other peoples threads why it can be all so confusing, glad I found this.

Click to expand...

I think a lot of people have the wrong idea about low fat low does not mean no fat it just means not to much saturated fats I consider that I have a low fat diet because. I don't eat red meat just mostly chicken and I don't have cream or butter to rich for me but I have some low fat yogurt and Skyr.I do eat a lot of eggs and as I said previously good oils avocados a few nuts and tinned fish give me the fats I need and I eat moderate carbs I am 78 and have never been overweight but I can loose it to quickly if I am not careful and I do not have any other medical problems except high cholesterol for which I take statins

Dwaffy said:

This has all left me quite confused, shouldI go Lchf or just stick to my diet from my GP and DESMOND course?

Click to expand...

Ultimately only you can choose what you want to do . Many of us here have experienced similar results with LCHF That being better glucose , lower insulin , higher HDL , lower Trigs and better inflammation markers (e.g. GGT ) and weight loss.There is a lot of research on the impacts of various fats on health . And pretty much all of it has advocates in both directions.

Many commenters vociferously against saturated fats are also heavily anti - meat.
There is also often a presumption that somehow people eating LCHF will promptly suddenly eat nothing but large amounts of butter and red meat . Many people do that and are equally as convinced that that is good for their health as the vegan lobby thinks the opposite !

The point for me about LCHF and indeed any type of long term sustaibable way of eating good for health is that it involves eating good quality basic proteins coupled with good quality vegetables and good quality natural fats to cook and season.

There are people on here who focus on achieving that via a variety of methods. Usually LCHF ie higher in good fsys than before and lower in carbohydrates . But otherwise , fully carnivore , fully vegetarian and all shades in between and either with a great deal of calorie restriction ( vlcd) or fasting ( IF) or simply LCHF What they all have in common is they limit / ideally remove refined foods of any kind , particularly sugar and refined carbohydrates . By doing that they start to experience the benefits outlined above . They can also read the various information provided by the pro meat / anti meat lobbies and the pro / anti fat lobbies .

They can have their own blood tests done before and after their dietary change and based on that decide how or whether to adjust their diet further .

If for example the path you chose does result in an increase in Ldl then naturally you will focus on looking into whether for you the evidence points to that being a problem or not. For very many of us the issue is not relevant because at the same time our blood glucose and insulin improves our Ldl also goes down so we do notworry further .

The key point is to find a good quality diet that works for you in controlling your blood glucose and metabolic markers. Reading this forum will give you many ideas as to how people have achieved that. Low carb , low calorie intermittent fasting.

The one thing you have achieved by joining here is finding a place where many people will comment on what they did and how if affected them. Occasionally you will come across a diatribe strongly in favour of something - a miracle cure - a specific food stuff - you MUST be vegan / carnivore / omit dairy / remove fat entirely / etc. You will learn to recognise these type of posts. They usually appear from nowhere from a member who is usually quiet other than some particular extreme focus they often advise that whatever is not their preferred option will kill you.

You can now choose what kind of responses strike a chord with you and adjust your own diet to suit .

You can also choose whether you believe your doctor is as well versed on the nutritional issues as that you can find here and in other forums or not . In my own case my doctor clearly had no idea ( which he admitted ) as such there was no need to feel I had to follow his advice . Indeed currently in nutrition terms he is currently following mine !

Out of interest, i worked out my weekly ft consumption last week, which was a fairly average week.

3oz butter, about 3 tablespoons of olive oil, about 8 tablespoons of full fat mayonnaise, and lots of cheese.

I am not sure how much whole milk I drink a day, but its around 3/4 of a pint in total, so about 5 pints a week.

I am not clever enough to work out how many calories that is, but, compared to my previous diet with biscuits, crisps, chocolate, chips etc I think I am probably eating less fat on my LCHF diet than I was on my pre-diabetic diagnosis diet. And the fats i do eat are healthier.

I think that we would all agree that that the fats to avoid are the manufactured, chemically altered sludge that is cooking oil (seed oils). Whether you choose healthy fats from plants like olive oil, avocados etc or from animal fats like butter and cheese or even a mixture of the two groups the amounts are a matter of personal choice.
The fear of fat has become so ingrained in us that it is sometimes hard to change habits. Low fat options are not natural and tend to be either tasteless or full of sugar/sweeteners. The proof that saturated fat is harmful to the heart or general health does not exist. Sat fat does not make you fat, carbs make you fat.

Guzzler said:

manufactured, chemically altered sludge that is cooking oil (seed oils).

Click to expand...

I assume you are referring to rapeseed oil. There are different opinions about its health benefits but making a rational judgement is not helped by the prejudicial way that you always refer to it. It is certainly not sludge, it is light, clear and free flowing. You complain that it is filtered, treated with chemicals and produced on an industrial scale, but so is drinking water.

I had two lidl protein rolls today, toasted and with butter - I had one and then just had to have another one - it was very cold and wet here today, so I had two cups of coffee and the toast - but I can't even remember the last time I had butter - it must be several months since - when making a sandwich I don't use butter as I am adding fatty things and I usually make toasted cheese - I use heavy cast iron pans for cooking so often I cook fat out of foods rather than add it - though then I throw in some mushrooms and they suck up all the fat and juice.
One of my pleasures used to be in seeing the disbelief on the face of those who took my blood pressure - I have even had them go and get another machine because the first one was obviously broken - after some 40 years of eating low carb with all the dangers I've been told about blocked arteries from too much fat, it doesn't seem to have happened yet.
I do use olive oil when making scrambled eggs, and eat the skin on chicken, living dangerously there.
I am also thinking of going back to teaching in the real world.

Mr_Pot said:

I assume you are referring to rapeseed oil. There are different opinions about its health benefits but making a rational judgement is not helped by the prejudicial way that you always refer to it. It is certainly not sludge, it is light, clear and free flowing. You complain that it is filtered, treated with chemicals and produced on an industrial scale, but so is drinking water.

Click to expand...

Not just rapeseed oil but all the seed oils. If your opinion differs from mine then you could advocate for seed oils in this thread citing evidence that they are 'beneficial to health'.

Just one of many, many presentations on manufactured oils. A half hour well spent.

Guzzler said:

Not just rapeseed oil but all the seed oils. If your opinion differs from mine then you could advocate for seed oils in this thread citing evidence that they are 'beneficial to health'.

Click to expand...

That was not my point.

Mr_Pot said:

That was not my point.

Click to expand...

Your point is the way @Guzzler expresses himself on the subject? if you have concerns, the report button is a thing.