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My personal hypothesis - T2 - Low insulin Diet

That is an interesting point . So far I have found that my body quite happily lets me munch through the entire 1000 calories that I have chosen. I have been a bit taken aback at how easily it does to be honest.
This particular meal, being salad based has more volume that yesterdays - so it will be interesting to see what happens.
If in fact I just can't eat it - then I guess at that stage I will have naturally hit a VLC diet . My goal at the moment is to see if I can eat just one complete meal a day that meets all my requirements, if I can, then that is something I could do forever, whilst both enjoying cooking, creating things and having meals out. That seems to me to be a pretty good goal.
 
That is an interesting point . So far I have found that my body quite happily lets me munch through the entire 1000 calories that I have chosen. I have been a bit taken aback at how easily it does to be honest.
This particular meal, being salad based has more volume that yesterdays - so it will be interesting to see what happens.
If in fact I just can't eat it - then I guess at that stage I will have naturally hit a VLC diet . My goal at the moment is to see if I can eat just one complete meal a day that meets all my requirements, if I can, then that is something I could do forever, whilst both enjoying cooking, creating things and having meals out. That seems to me to be a pretty good goal.
I agree. That would be great. I guess I noticed all the veggies and WISH I could eat all those. Then I noticed the stew and thought 'bring it on!'
I love veggies so much but the stomach rebels. It natural demands vlc moderate fat, though still 75-80% of my diet. I'd love to live on veggies. I'm jealous!

I hope this works for you. You've certainly done your homework !!
 
I agree. That would be great. I guess I noticed all the veggies and WISH I could eat all those. Then I noticed the stew and thought 'bring it on!'
I love veggies so much but the stomach rebels. It natural demands vlc moderate fat, though still 75-80% of my diet. I'd love to live on veggies. I'm jealous!

I hope this works for you. You've certainly done your homework !!


Well , I ate everything, I am stuffed to the gills, my blood sugar started off at 4.7 it peaked at 6.1 in 45 minutes and is now well on the way back to under 5 within 2 hours.

I can't imagine wanting to eat anything at all for a week :)

I checked my ketone level before starting and it was 2.0. I will check again once the meal has been digested. I have not got above 0.5 ketones in months of trying various other types of very low calorie diets. So it seems that this method does pretty quickly turn you into a fat burning machine. It will be interesting to see if that then give rise to further weight loss.

My previous method of dieting before diagnosis would be to spread 1000 calories over half a dozen meals and thus make my insulin worse all day long. No wonder I ended up diabetic!
 
Well , I ate everything, I am stuffed to the gills, my blood sugar started off at 4.7 it peaked at 6.1 in 45 minutes and is now well on the way back to under 5 within 2 hours.

I can't imagine wanting to eat anything at all for a week :)

I checked my ketone level before starting and it was 2.0. I will check again once the meal has been digested. I have not got above 0.5 ketones in months of trying various other types of very low calorie diets. So it seems that this method does pretty quickly turn you into a fat burning machine. It will be interesting to see if that then give rise to further weight loss.

My previous method of dieting before diagnosis would be to spread 1000 calories over half a dozen meals and thus make my insulin worse all day long. No wonder I ended up diabetic!
That's great!!! Looks like it's working for you! Were you previously low carb?

I have always been a grazer. Snacking through the day but always under 20 carbs for 25+ years. Well before DX. Then as I was progressing to LADA I fasted until at least noon. Usually 2 and had a snack then a small dinner. Both consisting of a small salad and a couple ounces protein. It's all my bs could handle BUT I got too skinny. After I was FINALLY DXd after almost dying they told me to eat 20 c per meal. I used 2 oz sweet potato and one ounce black beans. I was constantly bloated. Then I found my way back to vlc and much lower insulin.
Now I'm back to bf, lunch split into 2 small meals, 1 oz mealted cheese with a roasted pecan and scallions with a cocktail at 5 ( my favorite time of day haha) and then dinner. Sometimes a Mac and a pecan as a snack. The thing is I can't eat enough food to take one unit without a hypo. I only take one of two lantus so long gone by morning and I need to rely on bolus. My half units run out around 2.5-3 hours so I need a shot. If I take it without a snack I hypo so eating 5 times a day ( no insulin with cheese and cocktail) instay very steady. So now this works for me. I do understand the raising insulin by grazing but I guess I need not worry about that now, especially with 1/2 unit per meal.
The Rosedale diet taught me about keeping meals 4 hours apart to allow insulin and bg to come back to normal instead of topping it off all day. Completely brought my bs back to normal when I was type 2. Snacks were to be fat, no protein or carbs to speak of. Mostly a FEW low carb nuts.
These days I'm never really hungry but eat as I need the insulin every few hours and I too stick around 1000 cals. Fortunately my weight is good, maybe a tad low but nothing like skinny. Just thin. But I've always been. Same pant size for about 20 years. Food bogs my energy down, carbs make me ravenous as well as too large a serving of protein or carbs. I spent 50 years starving all day even just after eating and bloated. Finally, since avo and low insulin doses I'm never hungry but I still love to eat haha

I'll be watching you. Seems as you're getting over a long stall/ hump!! Yay
 
That's great!!! Looks like it's working for you! Were you previously low carb?

I have always been a grazer. Snacking through the day but always under 20 carbs for 25+ years. Well before DX. Then as I was progressing to LADA I fasted until at least noon. Usually 2 and had a snack then a small dinner. Both consisting of a small salad and a couple ounces protein. It's all my bs could handle BUT I got too skinny. After I was FINALLY DXd after almost dying they told me to eat 20 c per meal. I used 2 oz sweet potato and one ounce black beans. I was constantly bloated. Then I found my way back to vlc and much lower insulin.
Now I'm back to bf, lunch split into 2 small meals, 1 oz mealted cheese with a roasted pecan and scallions with a cocktail at 5 ( my favorite time of day haha) and then dinner. Sometimes a Mac and a pecan as a snack. The thing is I can't eat enough food to take one unit without a hypo. I only take one of two lantus so long gone by morning and I need to rely on bolus. My half units run out around 2.5-3 hours so I need a shot. If I take it without a snack I hypo so eating 5 times a day ( no insulin with cheese and cocktail) instay very steady. So now this works for me. I do understand the raising insulin by grazing but I guess I need not worry about that now, especially with 1/2 unit per meal.
The Rosedale diet taught me about keeping meals 4 hours apart to allow insulin and bg to come back to normal instead of topping it off all day. Completely brought my bs back to normal when I was type 2. Snacks were to be fat, no protein or carbs to speak of. Mostly a FEW low carb nuts.
These days I'm never really hungry but eat as I need the insulin every few hours and I too stick around 1000 cals. Fortunately my weight is good, maybe a tad low but nothing like skinny. Just thin. But I've always been. Same pant size for about 20 years. Food bogs my energy down, carbs make me ravenous as well as too large a serving of protein or carbs. I spent 50 years starving all day even just after eating and bloated. Finally, since avo and low insulin doses I'm never hungry but I still love to eat haha

I'll be watching you. Seems as you're getting over a long stall/ hump!! Yay

I'm glad you have managed to find a way that works for you. I was HCLF for many many years. I switched to LCHF on the day I was diagnosed last august with an hba1c of 90. I lost 25kg and got my hba1c down to 42 and my fasting insulin down to 8.3 .I've been stalled for the last 6 months, though I think that is a function of letting my lifestyle creep up the calories - still LCHF so blood sugars are fine. This Low insulin diet is still effectively LCHF just looking at it from the perspective of insulin instead of glucose.

Im now tryin to find a way to drive out the last 10-20kg and the last 10 points from Hba1C and insulin to under 5.
 
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I wish you the very best in your endeavour. The meal looks scrummy!
Sadly, for me, this approach wouldn't work mostly because some of the meds I am on are food dependant so it is a stark choice, miss doses and forego the food or eat. I shall follow your progress with interest. Best of luck.
 
That is an interesting point . So far I have found that my body quite happily lets me munch through the entire 1000 calories that I have chosen. I have been a bit taken aback at how easily it does to be honest.
This particular meal, being salad based has more volume that yesterdays - so it will be interesting to see what happens.
If in fact I just can't eat it - then I guess at that stage I will have naturally hit a VLC diet . My goal at the moment is to see if I can eat just one complete meal a day that meets all my requirements, if I can, then that is something I could do forever, whilst both enjoying cooking, creating things and having meals out. That seems to me to be a pretty good goal.

Cherry, how do you propose proving your theory whilst in a calorie deficit, or do you intend to target a period on weight maintenance post your experimental period of 1000 calories a day.

I appreciate we're all different, and might want to try a personalised approach to achieving however we want phrase your goal. How do you feel it differs from IF, bearing in mind Dr Fung's use of IF was originally explored to find a way to address the HC content of some non-indigenous dietary cultures making LC tricky (for them to follow), if I recall correctly.

I massively respect Dr Fung, but haven't done more than superficial reading around his work, because it's not a lifestyle I would care to follow closely, given the options I appear to have.

For me, I know that I would really, really struggle to take on board my personal level of maintenance calories within a one meal window. I have never, ever been a snacker, so, for me, I've never had to address that challenge. For me, my calculated BMR, by calculation using the usual calculations and metrics is well, well adrift of what I need not to lose any further weight.

As I have suggested before, the more I read, the more I am convinced there are potentially many ways to skin this particular cat, and many seem to include variations on themes.
 
So the mega meal caused a spike from 4.4 to 6.1 45 minutes after I began and drop to 5.2 at two hours and 4.2 yesterdays average overnight fasting - by 3 hours.

My morning liver dump took me to 5.4 mmol, a full 1.5 mmol lower than 3 days ago.
Cherry, how do you propose proving your theory whilst in a calorie deficit, or do you intend to target a period on weight maintenance post your experimental period of 1000 calories a day.

I appreciate we're all different, and might want to try a personalised approach to achieving however we want phrase your goal. How do you feel it differs from IF, bearing in mind Dr Fung's use of IF was originally explored to find a way to address the HC content of some non-indigenous dietary cultures making LC tricky (for them to follow), if I recall correctly.

I massively respect Dr Fung, but haven't done more than superficial reading around his work, because it's not a lifestyle I would care to follow closely, given the options I appear to have.

For me, I know that I would really, really struggle to take on board my personal level of maintenance calories within a one meal window. I have never, ever been a snacker, so, for me, I've never had to address that challenge. For me, my calculated BMR, by calculation using the usual calculations and metrics is well, well adrift of what I need not to lose any further weight.

As I have suggested before, the more I read, the more I am convinced there are potentially many ways to skin this particular cat, and many seem to include variations on themes.

In arriving at my current strategy I combined stuff from everywhere -

VLC -, the only reason I haven't settled on trying to get to a VLC level of 800 calories for the one meal is that in the first day I got it a bit wrong but the weight dropped off anyway and I keep reading how its possible to lose weight on way more calories than has been my experience. I figure that when it stalls - I will then try to get lower calories overall.

LCHF - cut the carbs, and all processed foods and sugars add natural fats,

Intermittent fasting = one meal a day,

Paleo guys - don't be frightened of protein.

The nature of nutrition -let your appetite guide you as to what proportion of real foods -

spices > add in as many as you can,especially curcumin and pepper nuts, use sparingly but they are good for you ,

Saturated fats - good for you so use butter/ goose fats, natural saturated fats PURE study show inc to HDL and reduction in Trigs. A

void omega 6 vegetable oils like the plague - numerous studies . deliberately adjust your intake to try to match om 3 and om 6. deliberately add in cod liver oil to try to get Vit D deficit up and vinegar to try to get insulin sensitivity up.

There is nothing particularly new in any of that. its just that now having read as much as I have, I understand why each component is useful and see the commonalities.

Plus then Personal taste - I like cooking and a sense that maybe one meal a day might work for me to lose weight by helping me stick to the binary choice.

There have been maybe a dozen times today when last week I would have helped myself to something in the fridge - just small piece of cheese, a bit of avocado, a lump of chorizo, parma ham- all tiny all low carb. My thinking is - Assemble the food, look at it - see just how much it is, recognise its 100% of your nutritional needs and then eat it. and stop.

IF I can lose weight on this diet ( which remains a big IF ) then I can do it forever because I like the food. Currently I've got to a higher level of ketosis than the whole of the last year, and because I'm not eating for 23 hours a day, I assume that is quite high all the time- which should help weight loss .

I would far prefer to eat it in two lumps instead of just the one. However I can well see why the theory of one meal should work better than two in dealing with circulating insulin - which I am personally now convinced is the key to overall good health and longevity.

So far there has been a significant reduction in my morning liver dump in 4 days. (6.9 mmol to 5.4mmol) IF I get to the stage that there is no discernible liver dump, then it would be my intention to do another OGTT test at home to check if I'm now showing any better response than the first time.

If its getting better but not there yet. I would hope to continue until I have truly normal responses i.e. the Kraft curve 1glucose. at which point I would pay for a full kraft insulin assay . To my mind that is " cure" - and may not actually be attainable at all. If its not curable doing this diet then I doubt it is full stop.

I wouldn't propose to suddenly start eating the processed foods again even if it was a " cure" its quite clear that processed foods are damaging the human race, so there is absolutely no need to rejoin that particular merry go round just to prove a point.

I do intend to try the odd - mega meal - eg restaurant night out, fish and chip supper etc to see if they are copable with in this strategy ( I suspect they might be )

If nothing else I'm hoping the diet will reinforce the wisdom of the "no snacking rule " and help me to eat more sensibly with two or three meals a day in the future.

Obviously the dynamics of all this may well look very different depending where you are starting. I still have upto 20 kg of excess weight that I've had for nigh on 40 years - so I might need be more drastic at fixing it than many. if I ever get to the point where I can't stop losing weight - that is so are beyond my personal experience that I cannot currently imagine how I would deal with it - though clotted cream,peanut butter, pork scratchings and battered fish might get a look in !
 
So the mega meal caused a spike from 4.4 to 6.1 45 minutes after I began and drop to 5.2 at two hours and 4.2 yesterdays average overnight fasting - by 3 hours.

My morning liver dump took me to 5.4 mmol, a full 1.5 mmol lower than 3 days ago.


In arriving at my current strategy I combined stuff from everywhere -

VLC -, the only reason I haven't settled on trying to get to a VLC level of 800 calories for the one meal is that in the first day I got it a bit wrong but the weight dropped off anyway and I keep reading how its possible to lose weight on way more calories than has been my experience. I figure that when it stalls - I will then try to get lower calories overall.

LCHF - cut the carbs, and all processed foods and sugars add natural fats,

Intermittent fasting = one meal a day,

Paleo guys - don't be frightened of protein.

The nature of nutrition -let your appetite guide you as to what proportion of real foods -

spices > add in as many as you can,especially curcumin and pepper nuts, use sparingly but they are good for you ,

Saturated fats - good for you so use butter/ goose fats, natural saturated fats PURE study show inc to HDL and reduction in Trigs. A

void omega 6 vegetable oils like the plague - numerous studies . deliberately adjust your intake to try to match om 3 and om 6. deliberately add in cod liver oil to try to get Vit D deficit up and vinegar to try to get insulin sensitivity up.

There is nothing particularly new in any of that. its just that now having read as much as I have, I understand why each component is useful and see the commonalities.

Plus then Personal taste - I like cooking and a sense that maybe one meal a day might work for me to lose weight by helping me stick to the binary choice.

There have been maybe a dozen times today when last week I would have helped myself to something in the fridge - just small piece of cheese, a bit of avocado, a lump of chorizo, parma ham- all tiny all low carb. My thinking is - Assemble the food, look at it - see just how much it is, recognise its 100% of your nutritional needs and then eat it. and stop.

IF I can lose weight on this diet ( which remains a big IF ) then I can do it forever because I like the food. Currently I've got to a higher level of ketosis than the whole of the last year, and because I'm not eating for 23 hours a day, I assume that is quite high all the time- which should help weight loss .

I would far prefer to eat it in two lumps instead of just the one. However I can well see why the theory of one meal should work better than two in dealing with circulating insulin - which I am personally now convinced is the key to overall good health and longevity.

So far there has been a significant reduction in my morning liver dump in 4 days. (6.9 mmol to 5.4mmol) IF I get to the stage that there is no discernible liver dump, then it would be my intention to do another OGTT test at home to check if I'm now showing any better response than the first time.

If its getting better but not there yet. I would hope to continue until I have truly normal responses i.e. the Kraft curve 1glucose. at which point I would pay for a full kraft insulin assay . To my mind that is " cure" - and may not actually be attainable at all. If its not curable doing this diet then I doubt it is full stop.

I wouldn't propose to suddenly start eating the processed foods again even if it was a " cure" its quite clear that processed foods are damaging the human race, so there is absolutely no need to rejoin that particular merry go round just to prove a point.

I do intend to try the odd - mega meal - eg restaurant night out, fish and chip supper etc to see if they are copable with in this strategy ( I suspect they might be )

If nothing else I'm hoping the diet will reinforce the wisdom of the "no snacking rule " and help me to eat more sensibly with two or three meals a day in the future.

Obviously the dynamics of all this may well look very different depending where you are starting. I still have upto 20 kg of excess weight that I've had for nigh on 40 years - so I might need be more drastic at fixing it than many. if I ever get to the point where I can't stop losing weight - that is so are beyond my personal experience that I cannot currently imagine how I would deal with it - though clotted cream,peanut butter, pork scratchings and battered fish might get a look in !


As a female, at 160cm tall and circling a weight of 48kg (by the usual daily fluctuations), I won't be starting anywhere trying to reduce my weight any further. Indeed, like some other LCe'rs, I closely monitor my weight to ensure I'm keeping it on. Bonkers though that may seem to others.

Of course, I appreciate I am in a differing place to that which you find yourself in now, and approached my challenges differently to you, but my approach has always been to try to achieve my objectives along the way by deploying an approach that would allow me to live an active lifestyle that involved minimal interventions to allow my bloods to normalise, allow me to continue to socialise, and also allow my OH and myself to continue to eat the same meals, albeit he might have additional carbs. That we continue to eat together is important to us, and we have essentially the same meals (give of take additional sides or desserts, which have never actually played a massive part in our way of eating). as it is our time to "unpack" the day's events, and the prospect of doing two materially differing meals wasn't palatable for either of us.

If we're concentrating on weight loss, plus controlled blood sugars here, I would be surprised if clotted cream, decent quality peanut butter of pork scratching would have much impact on blood scores, but folks can have bizarre blood glucose reactions to some foods, usually expected to have no impact. Your experience with the additional calorie heavy additions may differ to my own, where all calories don't seem equal.

These days my calorie intake is greater than his, but I am keen to reinforce that certainly isn't what everyone finds. It took me almost 4 months to regain weight lost during the recovery period after surgery a couple of years ago. That was sort of "interesting" to experience.

Edited in order to correct a typo, then alter the post "running order" of my ramble, to read a bit better, in my view.
 
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A a female, at 160cm tall and circling a weight of 48kg (by the usual daily fluctuations), I won't be starting anywhere trying to reduce my weight any further. Indeed, like some other LCe'rs, I closely monitor my weight to ensure I'm keeping it on. Bonkers though that may seem to others.

Of course, I appreciate I am in a differing place to that which you find yourself in now, and approached my challenges differently to you, but my approach has always been to try to achieve my objectives along the way by deploying an approach that would allow me to live an active lifestyle that involved minimal interventions to allow my bloods to normalise, allow me to continue to socialise, and also allow my OH and myself to continue to eat the same meals, albeit he might have additional carbs.

If we're talking weight loss here, I would be surprised if clotted cream, decent quality peanut butter of pork scratching would have much impact on blood scores, but folks can have bizarre blood glucose reactions to some foods, usually expected to have no impact.

That we continue to eat together is important to us, and we have essentially the same meals (give of take additional sides or desserts, which have never actually played a massive part in our way of eating). as it is our time to "unpack" the day's events, and the prospect of doing two materially differing meals wasn't palatable for either of us.

These days my calorie intake is greater than his, but I am keen to reinforce that certainly what everyone finds. It took me almost 4 months to regain weight lost during the recovery period after surgery a couple of years ago. That was sort of "interesting" to experience.

One of the reasons for trying to lose improve my diabetes this way as opposed to the powdered shake routes, is that I know in my heart I am simply too social an animal to be able to keep up that kind of differentiation for 8 weeks. If instead I can eat a full meal, but choose it very carefully once per day in a restaurant, then I have a better chance of succeeding.

You are totally right that I have zero ability to even conceive what it must be like to try to keep weight on. I've never had that problem. Having said that I did advise another non diabetic freind on the LCHF way of life . he has now lost 30 kg and is " slim" and I can see that he needs to make sure he doesn't take it any further. He adopted the same food diet as me and went in a straight line trajectory from obese to thin. No stall at any stage. He did embrace fasting though - another reason for my decision to try one meal a day as a specific diet.
 
So no change in weight today . Average glucose at 4.7 yesterday is the lowest I've ever recorded. It could have been lower still if I'd done a little exercise after my mega meal last night. (note to self )
Ketones before bed last night 1.0 and on waking 0.7
Fasting glucose this morning 4.5 up slightly on the 4.2 yesterday -maybe the same reason?
I have a niggling suspicion that the lentils and barley doesn't help in the stew . I had been trying to get fibre up - I think maybe I will try cucumber and celery instead going forward.

All total niggles I know - I'm doing fine so far - just recording my thoughts as I go along!
Mega meal today
small prawn boullabaise, prawn salad, pork stew, berries with yoghurt
99% daily nutrients 984 calories, 75P 42C 51F om 6 4.2g om 2 4.3g ( of which 2g is the cod liver oil!)
 
Cherry, a couple of things.

You have reminded me about the importance of snacking. I had totally stopped, but now find myself cutting some cheese when I pass the fridge. Didnt even realise I was doing it. I will try and stop. Thanks for that! Very helpful.

And lastly, where do.you find your recipes? I like the sound of the prawn thing and the stews. Thanks again.
 
So no change in weight today . Average glucose at 4.7 yesterday is the lowest I've ever recorded. It could have been lower still if I'd done a little exercise after my mega meal last night. (note to self )
Ketones before bed last night 1.0 and on waking 0.7
Fasting glucose this morning 4.5 up slightly on the 4.2 yesterday -maybe the same reason?
I have a niggling suspicion that the lentils and barley doesn't help in the stew . I had been trying to get fibre up - I think maybe I will try cucumber and celery instead going forward.

All total niggles I know - I'm doing fine so far - just recording my thoughts as I go along!
Mega meal today
small prawn boullabaise, prawn salad, pork stew, berries with yoghurt
99% daily nutrients 984 calories, 75P 42C 51F om 6 4.2g om 2 4.3g ( of which 2g is the cod liver oil!)
Mushrooms and avocado have loads of fiber. Mushrooms are great in stews and soups and avocado chunked on top ( not warmed into) are great and give it a nice creamy texture.

Great job so far!!! Are you loving it?
 
Mushrooms and avocado have loads of fiber. Mushrooms are great in stews and soups and avocado chunked on top ( not warmed into) are great and give it a nice creamy texture.

Great job so far!!! Are you loving it?

Thanks for the reminder. I do tend to add both to things as much as I can.

Its been very interesting - I'm now on the 4th mega meal day. Not a morsel of food has passed my lips other than what I had planned via cronometer to meet the close to 100% requirement. I decided what would be in my meal in the morning and I've looked forward to it all day. This is despite meeting with friends, and even sitting trough a restaurant dinner with a new date with only a glass of water.

I don't know whether in practice this will be enough to actually lose weight and get under my personal stumbling block of 89 kg in any meaningful way. However it is the first time in 6 months where I've thought that something might and the perceptible flattening out of the morning liver dump is very encouraging indeed even if it doesn't lead to weight loss. The fact that when one plays with a whole 1000 calories at one go, you can devise really tasty low carb dishes is also very encouraging because its the sheer tedium of trying to eat tasteless things that I find so incredibly hard.

The fact that I have got as far as 4 days in is also providing me with a lot of reinforcement that maybe I can continue with it. ( I am sure that is true with those who manage the shakes as well though.
 
And of course you being a self experimentation superstar also helps quite a bit...We're all behind you on this one.. Great work!
 
And of course you being a self experimentation superstar also helps quite a bit...We're all behind you on this one.. Great work!

Funny - I'm just an incipient workaholic - if I'm gonna do something I do it PROPERLY including getting horrendously overweight AND getting seriously diabetic. I do NOTHING by halves, ever .......

So today I repeated yesterday's food , pretty much exactly the same meal But went for a walk afterwards. Sure enough I was back to morning fasting levels of 4.5 within 90 minutes of starting. it took twice as long yesterday. Though when I stopped walking it reverted back to going up again which is a bit of a ******. I will post the libre charts when the day is done.

I took the time to listen to the new 2 keto dudes podcast with patient of Dr Jason Fung whilst walking. very interesting stuff.

http://www.2ketodudes.com/show.aspx?episode=84 well worth a listen if you an get through the first few minutes blurb. .

Utterly supportive of the idea that its the insulin levels that make you ill and obese with blood glucose being secondary and that its fasting that will bring the insulin down.

I still don't get why I didn't even know there was such a thing as a fasting insulin test until a good six month after diagnoiss despite tons of research. I would be fascinated to know if those diagnosed and immediately put onto insulin had theirs tested first.

My rather abortive attempt at dating a doctor specialising in hormones who told me he puts ALL of his patients onto insulin immediately because of the imperative need to get blood glucose down before all else, rather taught me how little most doctors appear to know,

I must admit I am finding it extraordinarily difficult to eat the whole 1000 calories , 100% nutients in one hit . I still feel utterly stuffed even after an hours walk. If anything that is getting harder not easier . I think I may simply have to reduce the meal volumes somehow, so I'm going to explore what I would need to do to make it more nutrient dense , less carbs but still meet the food macros . I suspect that might be hard.

The thought did cross my mind about maybe not eating it at all today and having it tomorrow instead. It receded again fairly quickly ... but one day LOL
 
It would be great if, one day, there was research into the circadian clock X insulin X glucose. It has become clear to me that disturbed sleep does beggar up the levels so a fasting insulin test would be pretty inconclusive for me.
 
It would be great if, one day, there was research into the circadian clock X insulin X glucose. It has become clear to me that disturbed sleep does beggar up the levels so a fasting insulin test would be pretty inconclusive for me.

As far as I can gather fasting insulin is a much slower moving number than glucose, not sure therefore if it would be impacted so significantly by disturbed sleep that the results weren't meaningful . ie if its going up because of the bad sleep than that's ssomething to be tackled and yet another item on my to do list !
 
It would be great if, one day, there was research into the circadian clock X insulin X glucose. It has become clear to me that disturbed sleep does beggar up the levels so a fasting insulin test would be pretty inconclusive for me.

Your wish may be coming true. I noticed just today that the Nobel prize has just been awarded to three guys working on understanding circadian rhythms . No clue what they have to say about insulin or glucose as I've not has the chance to look at the research yet. I know from my own libre , that my liver dump response starts at pretty much the very same time each day and has done for six months no.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/02/health/nobel-medicine-prize-circadian-rhythm/index.html
 
Sometimes my bs is well within range butnive eating a bunch of fat and my body craves insulin ( never thought I'd say that ). I take a little and I feel so much more balanced. Sometimes too much fat doesn't raise my bg but it needs insulin. Always a slippery slope.

Just wan to eat,I d I take 1/2 units. Still drops me without enough time food. Too much fat prolongs it until my insulin runs out. Then I crave fat or insulin. Insulin usually wins. High fat at dinner makes for a higher fasting. Always.
 
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