My personal hypothesis - T2 - Low insulin Diet

[CherryAA]

Sometimes my bs is well within range butnive eating a bunch of fat and my body craves insulin ( never thought I'd say that ). I take a little and I feel so much more balanced. Sometimes too much fat doesn't raise my bg but it needs insulin. Always a slippery slope.

Just wan to eat,I d I take 1/2 units. Still drops me without enough time food. Too much fat prolongs it until my insulin runs out. Then I crave fat or insulin. Insulin usually wins. High fat at dinner makes for a higher fasting. Always.

As I hope everyone knows I have T2 diabetes, so please read this blog by reference to that as clearly responses for others may be very different. I have added in a T2 diet tag to make sure its read that way. I apologise for not putting it in the title - I don't seem to be able to do that in retrospect- if admin. can then that would be good .

I do have one question for you - I have never researched injecting insulin because its not something I currently need to do. Have you looked into whether insulin itself is an addictive substance? what you describe sounds very similar to what people first coming off sugars feel on withdrawing sugar.

 

[CherryAA]

Day 6 on my " Low Insulin " one meal a day 100% nutrients diet., Om3/Om 6 balanced diet no veg oils diet. .

86.9 kg today ! -

Fasting blood sugar 4.4, average for the previous day 4.8 high of 6.6 after my 3 course 1000 calorie meal which included 43 g carbs .

I have lost 4.6 kg and 4 cm off my waist in 6 days flat whilst eating so much at one meal a day that I might burst.

Lessons yesterday

1) My body is getting used to the one meal thing so I'm not hungry in the morning. Its hard to eat all 1,000 calories - but I am going to stick with the 100 % nutrients without supplements goal for as long as I can and see if I can find some more nutrient dense foods to do it with.

2) Ketones hit 2.2 before bed, back to 0.7 this morning - probably shows how much glucogenesis is going on - presumably a reduction in the gap between the two will also be indicative of returning metabolic health.

3) The area under the curve for my morning liver dump is definitely going down

4) I can eat 1000 cals 40g + 80 g proteins carbs in one meal and not get above 6.7
5) Exercise - a 40 m swim is enough to process all the food and get back to fasting levels quickly ( about say 250 cals)
A one hour walk will quickly bring blood sugars back to fasting levels, but because that doesn't use quite enough calories ( about 150 ) then blood sugar rises again until consumption is complete .

so 40 min swim shortly after eating 1000 calories 43 carbs = BS back to fasting in 90 minutes
no excecise shortly after eating = BS back to fasting in 180 minutes
Insufficient exercise = BS back to fasting in 90 minutes, a blip on cessation to about half the high , back to fasting in 180 minutes.

These results are insanely good even discounting the water loss New diet and BP tablets effects.

Early days I know but I'm utterly made up with this.

Lets hope it also gets me through my 85kg barrier.

 

[DCUKMod]

@CherryAA - Not all members look into a members's details, and to be honest, there are likely more who read the forum than ever log in and post.

I, or any of the mods, would be happy to alter your thread title to reflect your T2 status. Just let any of us know.

 

[CherryAA]

@CherryAA - Not all members look into a members's details, and to be honest, there are likely more who read the forum than ever log in and post.

I, or any of the mods, would be happy to alter your thread title to reflect your T2 status. Just let any of us know.

I was hoping a moderator would pick up my comment on regarding T2 so yes please just make it "Low Insulin Diet - T2 diabetic "

 

[CherryAA]

"which involved a national trust scone. "

Every time I see this I giggle

 

[Dr Snoddy]

Hi CherryAA. I am really interested in your approach and am following your experiment with interest. From my own experience:
I would find it difficult to eat that bulk of food in one sitting and the resulting hypoglycaemia would mean that I would be unbearable to be around - irritable, angry, shaking and emotional. Having 1000 calories spread out over the day would work for me as I have some weight still to lose.
However, I really admire your fortitude and your carefully controlled approach.

 

[Kentoldlady1]

Hi cherry. Interesting as al

Every time I see this I giggle

I am in awe of your analytical and methodical approach. I just decided to do some fasting and not eat carbs. I really like the way you have set it all out. Thank you so much for this.

And I feel another national trust incident happening soon. I have just got my latest hba1c back. When I have lost another 1 stone I am going to give the carb test another go. Apart from chips I really miss the national trust scones. I know its not very measured or controlled but I do love them so thought I would just go for it!

 

[CherryAA]

Hi CherryAA. I am really interested in your approach and am following your experiment with interest. From my own experience:
I would find it difficult to eat that bulk of food in one sitting and the resulting hypoglycaemia would mean that I would be unbearable to be around - irritable, angry, shaking and emotional. Having 1000 calories spread out over the day would work for me as I have some weight still to lose.
However, I really admire your fortitude and your carefully controlled approach.

I think you may be extremely suprised that hypogcenamia doesn't necessary kick in.
I will post the charts from my libre showing the 7 days once its up.

 

[CherryAA]

Hi cherry. Interesting as al


I am in awe of your analytical and methodical approach. I just decided to do some fasting and not eat carbs. I really like the way you have set it all out. Thank you so much for this.

And I feel another national trust incident happening soon. I have just got my latest hba1c back. When I have lost another 1 stone I am going to give the carb test another go. Apart from chips I really miss the national trust scones. I know its not very measured or controlled but I do love them so thought I would just go for it!

Well following my theory, don't eat for a while first, drink some vinegar first, add lots of butter and go for a walk after
I intend to do exactly the same with a fish in batter shortly !

 

[Kristin251]

As I hope everyone knows I have T2 diabetes, so please read this blog by reference to that as clearly responses for others may be very different. I have added in a T2 diet tag to make sure its read that way. I apologise for not putting it in the title - I don't seem to be able to do that in retrospect- if admin. can then that would be good .

I do have one question for you - I have never researched injecting insulin because its not something I currently need to do. Have you looked into whether insulin itself is an addictive substance? what you describe sounds very similar to what people first coming off sugars feel on withdrawing sugar.

I know you're a type 2. I was just trying to show how a high fat meal requires more insulin later so your second upswing might be from the fat and not that you didn't burn the calories off. When I was type 2 ( and actually now as well) I didn't peak until 3 or more hours after a fatty meal. I didn't clearly see this until I started insulin.

Yes I'm addicted to insulin as I'm addicted to life and I love food.
Seriously, never looked into it but I can tell when I need it. I'm taking the smallest doses possible so it runs out within a few hours and as the body continuosly drips bg I NEED to take it even though it's hardly enjoyable.

 

[CherryAA]

I know you're a type 2. I was just trying to show how a high fat meal requires more insulin later so your second upswing might be from the fat and not that you didn't burn the calories off. When I was type 2 ( and actually now as well) I didn't peak until 3 or more hours after a fatty meal. I didn't clearly see this until I started insulin.

Yes I'm addicted to insulin as I'm addicted to life and I love food.
Seriously, never looked into it but I can tell when I need it. I'm taking the smallest doses possible so it runs out within a few hours and as the body continuosly drips bg I NEED to take it even though it's hardly enjoyable.

thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty certain that in this instance it was the exercise, because the same protein/ fat content gives different results only be exercise. My current blood glucose levels I can predict almost exactly and have been able to for weeks now based on the fasting glucose only. I appreciate that a lot of people are not as fortunate though. I'm also conscious that many here need insulin, so the fact that I am trying to get mine down may not be relevant to them.

Its lovely that what you are doing works for you, long may it continue !
]================================================================

 

[bulkbiker]

I would find it difficult to eat that bulk of food in one sitting and the resulting hypoglycaemia would mean that I would be unbearable to be around

Just a question but why would a large meal give you (as a type 2 ) hypoglycaemia?

 

[Kristin251]

thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty certain that in this instance it was the exercise, because the same protein/ fat content gives different results only be exercise. My current blood glucose levels I can predict almost exactly and have been able to for weeks now based on the fasting glucose only. I appreciate that a lot of people are not as fortunate though. I'm also conscious that many here need insulin, so the fact that I am trying to get mine down may not be relevant to them.

Its lovely that what you are doing works for you, long may it continue !
]================================================================

I highly commend you for trying to get your insulin down!!! Thats exactly what I'm trying to do, keep my doses low. ( and my stomach happy) I personally believe low insulin levels are key to a healthier longer life though many don't agree. I eat the way I do and take insulin the way I do to keep everything low and slow.

When I was type2 I was puzzled a few times as to why and when bs went up. Since starting insulin I can CLEARLY see which foods and macros do what to my bg and how fast. This is where the higher animal fat comes in. I don't go up for hours and I stay higher longer. I can eat the same grams of lean poultry and a fatty beef burger and everything changes. I'll go down a bit with the poultry but I'll need an extra bolus for the fatty beef around 1.5 hours. Everything else in the meal the same. This fat thing doesn't happen with plant fats like avo, mayo, oil. If I over eat nuts it will.

Protein does spike insulin almost as much as carbs. I take insulin for protein

It's also said ( but debated by many) that saturated fat causes IR. And I see this now too.

You're seeing lots of successes and I'm very happy for you. I know it's a project haha

 

[CherryAA]

Just a question but why would a large meal give you (as a type 2 ) hypoglycaemia?

The theory is that when you eat a big meal, you get a lot of insulin, its hard to get exactly the right number so instead you overshoot and thus get low glucose . I've seen this myself at the margin s

what many don't realise is that insulin seems to respond much more by type of food than quantity - so I can eat 1000 cal inc 43 carbs of real foods no om 6 veg oils, with no spike but a biscuit sends it skyward - as per the 5 g ginger experiment for my friend.

 

[bulkbiker]

The theory is that when you eat a big meal, you get a lot of insulin, its hard to get exactly the right number so instead you overshoot and thus get low glucose . I've seen this myself at the margin s

what many don't realise is that insulin seems to respond much more by type of food than quantity - so I can eat 1000 cal inc 43 carbs of real foods no om 6 veg oils, with no spike but a biscuit sends it skyward - as per the 5 g ginger experiment for my friend.

I have never experienced hypoglycaemia after eating (in fact I don't think I have ever experienced it although have been in the mid 3's a few times). I am just wondering how a Type 2 can do so? I understand the over production of insulin idea but in an insulin resistant person how would that work?

 

[CherryAA]

Day 7 on the low insulin diet ,

I have never experienced hypoglycaemia after eating (in fact I don't think I have ever experienced it although have been in the mid 3's a few times). I am just wondering how a Type 2 can do so? I understand the over production of insulin idea but in an insulin resistant person how would that work?

My personal view, would be that a lot of it is actually probably more in the mind than real in T2, certainly until its been found that you truly do not produce your own insulin.

I think its also quite possible that even when insulin resistant if your body gets the guess wrong then you could still produe mo than you need ( actually quite a good sign really in terms of prognosis)

I think the problem is that because when injecting insulin there is a barrier at 5 mmol, because of the obvious risks that getting it wrong entails, that leads many T2 to thing that under 4 is very abnormal when in a totally metabolically healthy person numbers of around 3.6 mmol are very common. I for one celebrate when number is 3.6-3.9. Its hard to tell for anyone if the symptoms on experience under 4 are real hypo , or simply an adverse reaction to what to you have been thinking based on the official advice.

I personally have never experienced the sensation of an actual hypo even when my libre was reading 3.3

 

[bulkbiker]

Day 7 on the low insulin diet ,



My personal view, would be that a lot of it is actually probably more in the mind than real in T2, certainly until its been found that you truly do not produce your own insulin.

I think its also quite possible that even when insulin resistant if your body gets the guess wrong then you could still produe mo than you need ( actually quite a good sign really in terms of prognosis)

I think the problem is that because when injecting insulin there is a barrier at 5 mmol, because of the obvious risks that getting it wrong entails, that leads many T2 to thing that under 4 is very abnormal when in a totally metabolically healthy person numbers of around 3.6 mmol are very common. I for one celebrate when number is 3.6-3.9. Its hard to tell for anyone if the symptoms on experience under 4 are real hypo , or simply an adverse reaction to what to you have been thinking based on the official advice.

I personally have never experienced the sensation of an actual hypo even when my libre was reading 3.3

Agreed 100% felt slightly "off" the first time I went below 4 but since then nothing...however that was on day 3 of my first 7 day fast so was in unexplored territory then!

 

[Kristin251]

I think the timing insulin comes in for type2 makes a difference. Type 2 can lose their first phase response and a biscuit will get there before their phase 2 insulin comes in which is why low carb high fat works so well.

This is why carbs never worked for me once I started injecting. I couldn't get the timing of food to match the insulin timing. Some too soon, some too fast = rollercoaster

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have seen highish 3s over night, never during the day. I do see a lot of 4s. I have never had a hypo, and have never felt like I was having a hypo. I have eaten quite large lunches sometimes after fasting 18 hours but don't hypo, although I have never fasted above 18 hours - except once for 21 hours due to circumstances.

If I do have an insulin flood (and I don't know if I do or don't) once the blood glucose has been taken care of by my insulin, my liver must take care of matters by dumping and giving the excess spare insulin something to do, balancing things out and keeping my glucose levels stable and steady.

 

[Brunneria]

There is a complex mechanism in play in a normal healthy person that balances blood glucose using insulin and the insulin-antagonistic growth hormones glucagon, adrenaline, cortisol and growth hormone.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2043222
Insulin is not the only hormone in the body which can become dysregulated, as many members on this forum experience.

http://www.hormone.org/diseases-and-conditions/diabetes/non-diabetic-hypoglycemia

There are many ways that this perfect balance can be disrupted including, but not restricted to, diabetic and other meds, other illnesses, health issues, stress, and others.

@CherryAA I can assure you with absolute certainty that your personal view on hypos as stated below is incorrect.

My personal view, would be that a lot of it is actually probably more in the mind than real in T2, certainly until its been found that you truly do not produce your own insulin.

Edited to add the link.