Need a advice on Type 1 for a kid - low carbs diet

[endocrinegremlin]

Actually the brain uses ketones as an energy source more readily than it uses glucose - according to a Harvard professor, Dr. George Cahill. This is of course not the dangerous high blood glucose ketoacidosis state, but the result of eating a low carb diet. A moderate level of dietary fat is required to maintain ketosis, as that secures the production of the fat mobilising substances discovered by the researchers Chalmers, Kekwick and Pawan back in the 1960s. Sufficient protein is needed to protect the lean body mass, which can be lost when on a fast or a low calorie diet, and it also reduces appetite so that there is less snacking which is such a feature of high carb diets. I have absolutely no experience of treating diabetes in children, but I found that my own children would far rather eat the diet I provided, which was less carb laden, particularly with regard to sugars than what was fed to many of their contemporaries. Even as toddlers they would drop sugary sweets and point to the fruit in the grocer's window, as they preferred grapes and apples as a treat.
Theoretically the less insulin is used to lower blood glucose levels the better, so the lower the input of carbs to be broken down into glucose and requiring the injection of insulin the better. If a diabetic can use the breakdown of fat both dietary and that created by insulin then they are using a biological system which is not broken and which can be controlled by their own metabolism rather than relying on the testing and injecting done at one particular moment.

Ketones appearing for a diabetic is dangerous. End of. There is too short a time frame from a few to death's door to suggest otherwise. That is irresponsible. Also the source for this info Dr Cahill died 4 years ago which is a milenia ago in D terms.

No one is claiming that huge amounts of carbs is better but there is a difference between stable and freaking out past a certain amount. At the end of the day every diabetic is individual and personal. What works for a person works and is no other diabetic's business.

 

[kittypoker]

Ketones appearing for a diabetic is dangerous. End of. There is too short a time frame from a few to death's door to suggest otherwise. That is irresponsible. Also the source for this info Dr Cahill died 4 years ago which is a milenia ago in D terms.

No one is claiming that huge amounts of carbs is better but there is a difference between stable and freaking out past a certain amount. At the end of the day every diabetic is individual and personal. What works for a person works and is no other diabetic's business.

This is quite a confusing post. Yes, Dr Cahill died four years ago at a ripe old age but why are his research and many papers no longer relevant?

There is a difference between ketoacidosis and ketosis. You're right, ketoacidosis is a very dangerous condition, usually found in T1's when ketones build up without sufficient insulin to deal. Nutritional ketosis is not dangerous and can be withdrawn with a sandwich if wanted. I've been in ketosis for six months and my brain has yet to leak out of my ears.

 

[Resurgam]

Ketones appearing for a diabetic is dangerous. End of. There is too short a time frame from a few to death's door to suggest otherwise. That is irresponsible. Also the source for this info Dr Cahill died 4 years ago which is a milenia ago in D terms.

No one is claiming that huge amounts of carbs is better but there is a difference between stable and freaking out past a certain amount. At the end of the day every diabetic is individual and personal. What works for a person works and is no other diabetic's business.

Ketosis is the process of breaking down fat - it is not dangerous, everyone does it every day. There is no need to be frightened of a word that sounds quite like something dangerous - just because someone is dead - (like Dr Atkins, for instance), doesn't make what they knew defunct. If you do not understand that high blood glucose is the danger signal, not ketones, perhaps you should look it up on the internet - there is a lot you can learn about all sorts.

 

[endocrinegremlin]

Ketosis is the process of breaking down fat - it is not dangerous, everyone does it every day. There is no need to be frightened of a word that sounds quite like something dangerous - just because someone is dead - (like Dr Atkins, for instance), doesn't make what they knew defunct. If you do not understand that high blood glucose is the danger signal, not ketones, perhaps you should look it up on the internet - there is a lot you can learn about all sorts.

But we are not everyone, we are diabetics.


Sure ketosis can happen but in diabetics it is a process that requires monitoring, especially in those with type ones. I have had ketones with perfectly fine blood sugars and required extra help from my health professionals. I will take that from experience and their knowledge, not some internet tripe. We all know what diabetic lies are on the internet. To suggest a diabetic simply 'google' their issue which is what this boils down to is mind boggling.

Also please keep in mind that type one and two are very different animals to contend with.

 

[azure]

Back on topic now, please

 

[Dpapa0514]

Hi. I think your making a great decision also.

My son was diagnosed a month after he turned 3, and was in icu for 5 days. The doctors educated me so much in those 5 days( but there's so much that I'm still learning by doing my own research. ) we also do the low carb diet. It works for us too.

One thing the doctors told me was "carb counting is always important and do not change his diet, he is a growing boy and needs dairy, bread, etc.. For his brain and body to grow, and they advised me all the foods with less carbs to try to add them into his diet whenever I can. Like snacks could be no or low carbs to where he wouldnt need an injection after.
And even tho these "diets" seem boring, there actually not a diet, its a normal way to eat. We dont realize how unhealthy wd eat until we have these restrictions come about. Your doing great, and he depends on you to care for him so if its working for you 2, then thats great. Good job.

 

[Rubylousmum]

Hi. I think your making a great decision also.

My son was diagnosed a month after he turned 3, and was in icu for 5 days. The doctors educated me so much in those 5 days( but there's so much that I'm still learning by doing my own research. ) we also do the low carb diet. It works for us too.

One thing the doctors told me was "carb counting is always important and do not change his diet, he is a growing boy and needs dairy, bread, etc.. For his brain and body to grow, and they advised me all the foods with less carbs to try to add them into his diet whenever I can. Like snacks could be no or low carbs to where he wouldnt need an injection after.
And even tho these "diets" seem boring, there actually not a diet, its a normal way to eat. We dont realize how unhealthy wd eat until we have these restrictions come about. Your doing great, and he depends on you to care for him so if its working for you 2, then thats great. Good job.

My daughter was diagnosed last week & I'm doing the same. Just her snacks at school are no carb, like hard boiled eggs, cheese red pepper, toms, olives etc. Then I've introduced low carb bread for her lunchbox. I'm finding the food side not too bad, and it's doing me wonders too!

 

[Resurgam]

This is a rather elderly thread - I suspect that any problems were sorted out long ago.

 

[bizzilizzi]

I'm interested to know how the OP has managed since??

I was mildly disturbed to be told by the diabetes team on my (8yo) daughter's diagnosis that she should be aiming for 60g carbs at dinnertime, and when I found in order to achieve that target we were topping her up with fruit juice and chocolate as she couldn't manage a shed-load of pasta or whatever, I quietly thought to myself 'this is a load of rubbish' and moved swiftly onto carbohydrate counting in time for her next clinic appointment. I didn't dare talk about low-carb with them as I picked up they are very keen on the high-carb low-fat approach and will no doubt see me as a danger to the health of my child if I show any inclination to do anything else. Anyway, we're not low-carbing, it's impossible with compulsory school lunches, we're doing what I would call medium-carb. Plus she's coeliac so that adds a whole other layer to things.

I also find it very disturbing to have her give herself an injection equivalent to an entire meal just to deal with one piece of cake. That's not really very healthy, now is it. It's made me realise how normalised excessive sugar consumption is. Needless to say with the healthier eating that we are all now doing I am back to the weight I was before marriage. (Not that I advocate having a family member diagnosed in order to lose weight...)

The thing is, she'd rather have a low-carb snack than give herself an extra injection, and she likes my low-carb baking, even the stuff made with coconut flour...

Any suggestions for a bedtime snack that will keep releasing slowly for longer??

 

[Diakat]

@bizzilizzi
The OP has not visited the forum for over two years. You could try a PM maybe.
As for a slow bedtime snack. Milk might be a useful one. Or a digestive.

 

[kitedoc]

Hi @OlgaJ,
From my reading, not a medical ir other health professional advice or opinion:
1) there is this survey about Adults and Children from the True Grit community who eat very low carb diets, with excellent HBA1C results, and minimal occurrences of hypos ( and as you may know hypos on hi carb diets with the hyper-hypo see-saw effect are reported as more) common.
https://www.drdavidludwig.com. Is exceptional control of Type I diabetes possible on a low-carbohydrate diet?
2) dietitians actually should know how to prescribe very low or keto diets for children since this diet is used as a treatment in children with epilepsy. What i do not know, but dietitians in paediatric facilities should, is how such children fare in terms of growth and other development parameters. Do they grow and devlop as expected on such a diet?
I could almost bet this concern about growth and development is one stumbling block likely to be placed in your path by your daughter's doctor and dietitian.
3) admittedly a child with diabetes will have different growth and development challenges than one with epilepsy. For example, insulin is regarded as a growth-type hormone, so the theory is that adequate amounts are required for normal childhood and adolescent development. I am uncertain if persons like Dr Ludwig, mentioned above, have any data to support a normal growth pattern in diabetic children on very low carb diets.
There will be at least one such child whose data might be obtainable and that is apparently the boy on the front cover of Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution book ( i think the 2011 edition)
And ask your doctor, how did Inuit and Laplander children thrive on zero carb diets? All they had most times of year was protein and fat ( vitamin C from uncookes whale blubber. Aren't low carber lucky in comparison!
And if you have read Dr Bernstein's book you will be appear that he counts 50% if grams of protein intake as carbs ( since this is how the Inuit and others survive, enoough glucose is made by the liver from spare protein to supply the brain. Acoording to ZH below and @Resurgam above post only 20 % of the brain uses glucose exclusively. The ketone products from fat are used by the rest of the brain, and muscles like the heart can use ketones as well.
4) not sure if your twins are identical or not but maybe your daughter's growth and development could be compared with her twin's as a way to gauge how well or not a proposed diet is working over the years
5) last year a paper in the Lancet reported that Low carb diets were associated with increased risk of heart disease. That was certainly dumped in my lap by my endocrinologist when he heard i had gone "low carb" (and no, it is not the 'dark side')
If you subscribe to zoeharcombe.com you will find a rebuttal of that Lancet paper. Zoe Harcombe ( ZH) is a nutritionist with a PhD on saturated fat vs heart disease. She has studied all the literature/ studies on that subject and all the statin trials and much about low carb as a researcher and blogger independent of Big Food, Big Pharma and Government.
There us much false information and flawed science about low carb diets, perpetrated i allege by food companies. For example, if your daughter no longer eats the most favourite ( sugary) breakfast cereal and others follow, the shareholders complain that the cereal manufacturer is not making enough sales. Any tactic is used to change public opinion, whethe it is the increase in adverts, the promise of a treat with every cereal packet etc.
I imagine you have noted how your daughter' s bsls are better after a breakfast without the usual adverised cereal intake.
6) whilst children need food to grow we have been led down this course of believing fat in its saturated form is bad. Zoe's studies refute this. So when the doctor or dietitian says that lowering carbohydrate increases need for protein and fat intake, he or she is correct.
But fat is not the bogeymen anyway , it is high bsls which are associated with blood vessel problems in the beginning - not fat or cholesterol. The money spent to subscribe to ZH is money well spent and if your daughter' s doctor and dietitian refuse to read her work as a way to put your side of the argument then not only is that stingy on their part, but you have to wonder if such bias and blindness to new ideas makes them suitable to be managing your daughter's diabetes.
I wish you all good luck and if you need another ' study' in your quiver for shooting off to the doctor and dietitian, quote the 'DCCT'.
Please look it up to realise how important the first 6 1/2 to 10 years if your daughter's journey on insulin is. And you may have to wonder why your daughter's doctor has not mentioned this.
If you go to Home page of this site and type " golden 6 1/2 years" you will see a brief discussion about it.
Also let your daughter know that there are healthy people on this site who have been taking insulin as type 1 diabetics for 30, 40, 50 years and more.
Flying creatures.............and bears..at begiining.................... Nothing is impossible

 

[kerrygold59]

Type1Grit is 100% recommended.

 

[Resurgam]

I was told that eating low carb would stunt development of body and brain - My son is about 6 ft 3 and my daughter 5 ft 8 and a bit. Both have degrees.
I had a high carb diet as a child and am 5ft 4 inches, with short arms and legs - I used to feel like a Shetland pony running after young racehorses.

 

[Shiba Park]

I was told that eating low carb would stunt development of body and brain - My son is about 6 ft 3 and my daughter 5 ft 8 and a bit. Both have degrees.
I had a high carb diet as a child and am 5ft 4 inches, with short arms and legs - I used to feel like a Shetland pony running after young racehorses.

Exceptions to prove the rule?