1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2020 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

New Castle Diet Long Term

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by cheamag, Mar 11, 2020.

  1. cheamag

    cheamag Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Does anyone in forum know if New Castle Diet (Extreme low calorie diet) has worked in Long term?

    I initially used this diet and remained off Diabetes for few years but have now gained back the weight. I am thinking of doing it once more. However I am unsure if this works in long terms.

    Thanks in advance for any feedback.
     
  2. Geordie_P

    Geordie_P Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I haven't done the actual newcastle diet, but I did go very low-calorie when I was first diagnosed: approx 600 Kcal a day.
    Like you, my numbers went back to healthy levels, and the doctor said the initial T2 diagnosis must have been a testing error.
    Also like you, I've put most of the weight back on, and I've been thinking of how to lose 30lbs- low cal/ low-carb or what.
    Honestly, I don't think I can/ should go ultra-low calorie again, or if I do, it will just be for a 'jump start'. I don't see how I could maintain very low-cal for extended years.
    I think Newcastle diet would work in the long term in the sense that you could use it to deplete glycogen and visceral fat, and once you've completed the initial programme, you can 'maintain' by not putting glucose back into your liver- so LCHF or some sensible variant thereof.
    For what it's worth, I'm trying to go a little less extreme, and I'm going very low-carb, moderately high fat, moderately low-calorie. Like maybe 1000kcal a day or under, if I can manage it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,913
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Low carb, eating healthy and getting all the nutrients you need to maintain good health beats a starvation diet that doesn't provide all the nutrients you need. Newcastle is an extreme diet meant to be short term.

    Many people lose weight on low carb or keto, but enjoy eating a satisfying meal that does not leave them hungry while improving blood markers and overall health.

    Long term I think would be detrimental.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,410
    Likes Received:
    15,825
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Hi @cheamag

    I’ve never done the Newcastle diet and it doesn’t appeal to me at all, but it seems to me that while it can certainly help with losing weight very quickly, there needs to be a very clear plan for what you’ll eat at the end of the restricted calorie period.

    Have you considered using a different approach? Low carb eating doesn’t require calorie restriction and is sustainable long-term. It’s also very effective for managing diabetes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

    Messages:
    7,508
    Likes Received:
    4,641
    Trophy Points:
    198
    The problem with a low calorie diet is that it resets your metabolism to cope with exactly that, and if you don't adjust on a permanent basis, you will end up losing and regaining in a perpetual yo yo diet/regain cycle, which is supposed to be unwise.
    By eating a diet low in carbs you cut out the problem of diabetes, the inability to deal with carbs. Using fat as fuel is very energizing, so activity levels tend to rise without much effort, and weight reduces, particularly the waistline which is where fat accumulates whenever I am pushed into eating all those 'healthy' carbs.
    So far I have had no problem in eating low carb for over three years - weightloss just happened, and whenever I test I am normal. My Hba1c is a little higher than I'd like, but I suspect that I was having problems with glucose for decades before diagnosis and might never see anything lower.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Ronancastled

    Ronancastled Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Firstly you asked about long term. I know Prof Roy Taylor was quizzed on this on his Reddit AMA and he indicated he knew someone who had been reversed for 10.5 years.

    The weight can be lost any way you see fit, he's been clear on that too.

    I believe there"s evidence online in a Swedish Obesity Study of people who've been in remission 20+ years following gastric band surgery. Suffice to say they had lost a large percentage of their initial body weight and managed to keep it off for life.
     
  7. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,342
    Likes Received:
    3,296
    Trophy Points:
    198
    In my personal opinion, serious energy intake restriction is a bad idea. In fact, in my view, calorie counting in general amounts to an eating disorder. Fasting and low carbohydrate is an ancestrally appropriate diet and typically brings about better results that last longer. It should be noted that drip-feeding calories in tiny amounts for prolonged periods slows the metabolism, whereas fasting does not.

    In summary, I am of the opinion that these extreme calorie cutting diets are a fools errand. That said, they seem to work, but I question the long term benefits and sustainability. Inevitably the diet needs to be followed by some level of carbohydrate restriction, which raises the question of why not just do that in the first place and avoid the starvation?
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  8. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,507
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    198
    It may work to lose weight in the long term, but you'll also become severely malnourished and deficient in just about everything, if you keep it up for longer than the advised period. It's a so-called crash diet, in essence, and thus, far from healthy in the long run. You might be better off looking into a ketogenic/LCHF diet instead. Those are sustainable for years, decades, forever basically, and will support weight loss as well as stable, normal blood sugars. https://josekalsbeek.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-nutritional-thingy.html is an example of how one works... My own little quick start guide. There's more information over on this forum's website, diabetes.co.uk, dietdoctor.com and in Dr. Jason Fung's The Diabetes Code, or his youtube video's. If you want to do the diet again though, stick with the advised period, then transition to the LCHF or a Keto lifestyle to maintain the gained ground.

    Good luck!
    Jo
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

    Messages:
    11,102
    Likes Received:
    6,821
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Hi. I can't help with the ND long-term but would suggest you forget calories and focus on carbs and that means going for a low-carb diet. Although the ND should help it will not be as good as LC. Fats have twice the calories of carbs but don't cause noticeable BS gain or even weight gain. The ND will encourage you to reduce fats rather than carbs which is the wrong way round. For me the ND is based on weak science (sorry Prof Taylor!)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. stuffedolive

    stuffedolive Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    840
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I agree with everything said above and would like to add an additional concern about crash diets such as the ND.
    When you lose weight fast like this you don't just lose fat, you also lose muscle. Muscle is very important for your long term health. If you do put weight back on after a crash diet then your body is now primed to preferentially put down fat, this is a natural reaction to surviving the next famine that you just indulged in.. The result is that if your body will have a higher percentage of fat vs muscle for the same bodyweight that you previously had. This is clearly very bad for your health and the likelihood of developing metabolic diseases such as diabetes.
    IMHO ND should be avoided but if undertaken should be done once in order to deplete visceral fat and then followed by a strict diet and exercise programme in perpetuity to manage weight at the desired level.

    I have no medical qualifications but I have read an awful lot of scientific research papers.
     
  11. 84green

    84green · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    438
    Trophy Points:
    63
    This thread is interesting to me as I am on the sixth week of the Newcastle Diet. I am Type 2 and on 2000mg Metformin daily. I also have high blood pressure.

    Since 22 January I have lost 42lbs (24 of them on the ND). This equates to 14% of my body weight. I haven’t stuck to the diet religiously but have been pretty compliant. I have also significantly increased my exercise levels.

    As background, I also have some narrowed arteries and have been prescribed medication and lifestyle changes to manage this.

    For me, the diet has been a success (so far). As my weight has reduced my blood sugar readings have dropped and my reading s for the past five weeks have mainly been in the 5’s. I had a chicken (shish) kebab with salad last week and they rose to 6.4 two hours post meal (5.4 again in the morning). My BP is also approaching normal levels. On the other hand, my energy levels are down, I feel lightheaded on occasions, and it is incredibly boring!

    For me, I believe it has been worth it and I aim to keep going for another two weeks of phase 1 and four weeks of phase 2 to try and achieve a 60lbs weight loss (20% of body weight).

    In terms of long term, I’m not that hung up on phrases such as ‘reversal’ and ‘remission’. My aim is to achieve and maintain non diabetic blood sugar levels and thus hopefully minimise and/or prevent any further complications.

    To be fair, Professor Taylor is quite honest and realistic about the long term impact of the diet. Indeed, it hasn’t been around long enough for that much research to be conducted on long term benefits. It seems to me, long term depends on your ability to keep to a life long sustainable eating plan. He states himself that there are other ways to achieve the same goals in slower time.

    It’s clearly not sustainable. One of the things that keeps me going is trying to identify the life long eating plan I will move on to in six weeks time. I imagine this will be some sort of low carb Mediterranean diet with a focus on whole plant foods with fasting. I hope to eventually lose 100lbs of my original weight by the end of the year.

    So for me the benefit of the diet has been a short sharp shock to the system, quick results and buying me time to take stock and identify the long term lifestyle changes I need to make. Having gone through this once, I am determined that there will be no backtracking. I’m even enjoying running and I didn’t enjoy that even when I was fit!

    I think the ND is good as long as it’s not seen as a long term fix. It isn’t- it’s a chance to reset your body and mind.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Roggg

    Roggg · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    38
    The diet itself is not intended to be maintained long term. That said, Taylor had 2 year follow up studies that showed as long as you maintain the weight loss, the reversal was maintained too. Those who put weight back on were more likely to see a return of their diabetes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Walking Girl

    Walking Girl Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    208
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Personally, I think what you do after any weight loss plan is far more crucial than how you get the weight off. I lost 45 lbs (20.4 kg) over the course of 6 months. I ranged around from general reduced calorie, to a Newcastle-modeled 800 calorie per day crash for 6 weeks, to fasting 2 days per week. They all had pretty much the expected weight loss effects per the available calorie calculators. (My thyroid functions well per tests.). Some plans worked better than others for my lifestyle, mindset, etc. I exercised regularly throughout, having been sedentary before weight loss.

    but keeping it off has been just as much work. It’s been almost 2 years now that I’ve maintained around a BMI of 22-23. Most days, it’s pretty easy because I’m in a comfortable food groove so I know how many calories I eat - around 2,200 and I’m a 52 year old menopausal female, so again the calorie calculators are pretty spot on for me. Is it less than I ate when I was obese? Yes. But it’s still a perfectly comfortable amount of food.

    I’ve lost weight and gained it 1 million times in my life. Why is this different? Well, my post weight loss plan is really, truly a “lifestyle change.” I don’t know how to explain why, but eating well and exercising regularly is just ingrained now. The only times I struggle a bit are during and after vacation. After, I get a “why not just keep going with eating more” mindset that I have to fight off. That’s when I lock it down and weight and track everything until I’m back in a good spot.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. Janedent

    Janedent · Newbie

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I have just finished losing 15% of my body weight in 8 weeks, having done the ND. I am now 48kg. The problem is I am quite confused about what to do now. First and foremost, I don't want to lose any more weight. But I am having to switch from thinking about calories, to thinking about carbs. I haven't got my head round that yet. My BS readings aren't as good now as when I was dieting ie after eating they sometimes go into the diabetic range. I am vegan (no jibes please). I am also hungry most of the time. Has anyone else been in this position?
     
  15. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

    Messages:
    7,508
    Likes Received:
    4,641
    Trophy Points:
    198
    As a vegan your food choices are the most limited possible.
    I can eat about 50 gm of carbs as an absolute maximum, and usually stay under 40gm, which is perfectly fine as an omnivore. If I wanted to be less exploitative I would keep hens in luxury, and eat their eggs - they would be infertile, and it would be wrong to throw them away, to my way of thinking.
    I can only advise eating a lot of soup, as that seems to be more satisfying than the same ingredients eaten unblended, and to avoid high carb foods such as bread, pasta and high carb fruits and veges, so that you have more food to eat.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    12,211
    Likes Received:
    7,081
    Trophy Points:
    298
    @Janedent - I'm not a vegan so don't have too many specific ideas in terms of diet for you, but I'll tag @Diakat who, although T1, is veggie and @Chook who is vegan to see what suggestion they might have.

    I see you note on another thread that you are always hungry? I imagine at 48kg you are no pretty slight. As you are already working out carbs are important, in a variety of ways, to people living with diabetes. If you are always hungry, my suggestion would be for you to consider upping your fat content. That doesn't have to mean your food is dripping in fat, but fattier food options, like (vegan) cheese or high fat non-dairy milks/creams perhaps.
     
  17. Zeddedhed

    Zeddedhed · Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Can't really comment about the Newcastle diet, although I understand it depends on drinking low cal low carb shakes for most of your calorie intake. Personally I couldn't handle that.

    I've opted for my own 'highly customised' version of the 800cal/mediterranean/blood sugar diet with added Time Restricted Eating thrown in for good measure. Essentially I'll survive on tea and coffee for most of the day, with about 3 or 4 litres of iced water doused with fresh Lime or Lemon juice, and then eat a shedload of protein and fats with a monster portion of Broccoli or Celeriac or something similar in the evening. A liberal dollop of cheese sauce (made with a mere smattering of flour) completes the picture.

    It seems to be working in that I've dropped over 6 kgs in a month and my average BC for the last 7 days is 6.6 mol/l. Given that my last HbA1c on 24th Feb was 79 I reckon it's improving things.

    So all in all I'd say (based on my extremely limited experience and even more limited knowledge) that 'Low Carb High Everything Else TRE Med Style' is the way to go.

    But it may not suit everyone of course.
     
  18. Diakat

    Diakat Type 1 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,564
    Likes Received:
    4,156
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Hi @Janedent
    What are you eatynow you are moving to real food again? What numbers are you seeing?
    @DCUKMod makes good suggestions above.
    How do you feel about leafy salads with olive oil, avocado, vegan cheeses, nuts, olives etc? Tofu? The Vivera products are pretty low carb too.
     
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook