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NEWS: More weight loss operations for diabetes

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by Avocado Sevenfold, Jul 11, 2014.

  1. Scardoc

    Scardoc · Well-Known Member

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    Jumping back to the original thread - more weight loss operations for T2 diabetics................

    I had the pleasure of being on holiday for the last two weeks and watched this article unfold on the good old BBC Breakfast. They did, off course, wheel in two "experts" to voice their opinion and both were singing from the same hymn sheet which was a shame, no balance. All the stats were about how much T2 diabetes is costing the NHS. All the talk was of obesity being the major factor in the rise of T2 diabetes. All the "experts" opinions were founded around the notion that no individuals are to blame and no one should have to pay for this surgery (which I think was suggested).

    Firstly, I agree that no one should pay for anything on the NHS as we all pay our NI and that's what it's there for.

    Secondly, I agree that a major factor in T2 is being overweight and unhealthy.....fat on the inside being just as big a problem.

    Thirdly, I think surgery is an appalling idea.

    For me, the "obesity epidemic" has come about due to a mixture of reasons and the principal fabric woven through them all is our modern lifestyle. Rather than saying people don't exercise enough these days, I'd say it's the sedentary lifestyle. There's a million different examples you can pick from. Our children don't have to go out to talk to their friends. Parents are less likely to let their children play out all day, build dens etc etc because of the nut jobs lurking everywhere. Are the nut jobs more common and predatory because of the internet? I think so. We have washing machines, dish washers and cars..... fuel burners instead of calorie burners. We have takeaways, fast food and convenience food. No more allotments as we have to pack the houses in. The World has changed. The examples being set by parents are awful. How many time do you see a parent pushing a push chair with their face glued to their phones? What interaction do you think that child gets at home? They probably get a screen of their own to pacify them.

    There's too much pc friendly, wishy-washy liberals around for my liking that won't apportion blame. There is no one size fits all and you can't tar everyone with the same brush but the blindingly obvious issues are there for all to see. I think exercise is an enormous benefit and not once was it mentioned on the news article about weight loss surgery. Not once was exploring every other avenue mentioned. It starts with education and the Government has to prioritise this from primary school age. It's not just about running around for an hour every day but teaching the value of a healthy balanced diet. It's no good having home economics when you use **** ingredients like powdered eggs!!

    Weight loss surgery is, for me, an attempt at a quick fix where there is none. I think they also need to make up their minds on these issues what the real problem is or where it lies. If, as they say, the main reason for T2 is being overweight then should this story not be a weight related story? As opposed to a T2 diabetic story?
     
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  2. Scardoc

    Scardoc · Well-Known Member

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    Who here has recently had to climb trees and fish for their meals?

    I'd be willing to wager vast sums of money (if I had it!) that few, if any, members of this forum could be dumped on yesteryear Tokelau and cope with the physical demands of sourcing their own meals. Occasionally climbing a tree is probably most days and without a nice ladder or cherry picker.

    A bit of fishing? The women and children would fish the lagoons but the men would be off shore in a wooden canoe using traditional hoop and hand line methods. Catching tuna with a hand line? Serious work. Paddling a canoe out in all conditions? Serious work.

    I'd suggest Mr Taubes has a bit of delusion over what constitutes physical activity when you live in a World of subsistence fishing!! Moving to New Zealand, an industrialised country, was probably a holiday on the body for these guys but not the brain!
     
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  3. Robinredbreast

    Robinredbreast Type 1 · Oracle

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    I do like your posts :), I am 56 I still hand wash my floors, not all the time, but I do. I also do a little cycling, I am always on the go ( but I do know that some people cannot have such an active life) I climbed up some steps in London not long ago and the person with me said I was like a goat climbing up themo_O my elderly dad worked into his early 80's and he is still alive, but more frail. Today when I was hovering his lounge carpet, he STILL lifed up his legs for me to hoover underneath :D and he will be 91 in two months time. ( my dad says it's down to our Scottish blood):D
    I hope I can still stay healthy and active for many years to come.

    With best wishes
     
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  4. Scouser58

    Scouser58 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    To all who posted about the latest news reports, gastric banding, blaming all on anything and everything, and then the X-pert pateints course woman, all spouting all sorts of rubbish and wanting to make themselves sound big, clever, important,stupid.
    The operations, well if they workedand the obese people lost all the weight they were surposed to, then would the nhs, be following up with the operations to trim off all the saggy, baggy, not nice skin that is left with rapid weight loss ???,
    Please let me go back in time, when I was 12 I started into domestic science lessons, housecraft, learning to cook, and iron etc, well when my sister went to the same school, no housecraft lessons, so she was never taught how to cook, and was terrible at ironing, washing etc. So maybe why so many people eat junk food, and have high fat convenience foods is because they cannot cook, and they learnt things from watching their mothers, who also maybe could not cook, and so the situation perpetuates.
    Then there is the thing that many have found out, good food, costs so much more to buy, and when there is not enough money to meet the necessary needs, then things have to be done, i.e. cutting the costs to the amount that is available.
    So there they are eating foods that are the best for the body, but it is what can be afforded, and is conveniant, so it goes round, the well off telling the others, You're not eating right, too much junk food, so maybe the gauntlet needs to be thrown down, show how they can do better, but only on the same amount of money, and if necessary teach cooking skills.
    I get really sick of being told, that you're not doing this, that or other right, you are fat, it's your own fault, and now stand up and fight for help, I felt there was pressure being brought to bear to send me for gastric banding, and maybe some treatment was witheld, but not bullied into one.So everybody on this forum needs to show they are the best experts in their own treatment, and do the best for themselves. I found out I was diabetic after a car shunt upset my whole body, after I was told I had an underactive thyroid gland and commenced that treatment, and only after I said about excessive piddlingwas getting on my nerves. Type2 confirmed, see the diabetic nurse, and then here is your testing meter,and keep a good record, diabetic clinic every 6 months, blood tests of various types, stick pins in to check feeling, then the eye screening etc. I am trying to loose weight and not having a lot of success, but keep going, and after reading peoples successes with the LCHF diet, than research is soon on its way. I now have Victoza and not as hungry, but it has slowed down my digestive progress, not nice.
    So to all, keep the faith in all you do, and dont let the outside world get you down, ttfn
     
  5. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    Intersting article(s) in daily mail today ref qty of "sugar" now recommended to be 90g per day under page 51...sugar shockers

    Why everyone going gluten free page 45

    page 35.. Eat like a masai tribesman... Eat more fat and the benefits...

    Daily Mail not mention diabetes at all in these.. Perhaps they should have.

    I don't see why Diabetes specialists such as this charity and others can't knocking hard on NICE and NHS doors to get home to these "officials" to stop recommending 50% carbs on plates... And wake up to what their members are saying about low carbs.


    Loving life
     
    #65 donnellysdogs, Jul 15, 2014 at 6:48 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2014
  6. PollyC

    PollyC Type 1 · Member

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    If the government want to help reduce the long term complications from diabetes why are they not looking at putting provisions in place for every diabetic who wants to move from injections to be offered insulin pumps. I, like many others had to fight to get my pump, was refused 3 times and had to jump through hoops to get it. I feel that the flexibility the pump has offered me will mean that my long term health will benefit.
     
  7. Scardoc

    Scardoc · Well-Known Member

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    The short term cost would probably be the main reason. As long as my control is good I am personally happy with needles and my consultant does mention pumps at each appointment but tells me I'd not be prioritised. I'd rather see them go to help people who need them, especially children.
     
  8. PollyC

    PollyC Type 1 · Member

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    i agree that children should be prioritised, but if people want to benefit from pumps it is short sighted to look at the short term cost, when long term health can be improved if it allows you to control your diabetes better. I understand that pumps are not for everyone, but they should be an option and not so difficult to get if you do want one. Over a 4 year period the overall cost for pump vs injections was £400 extra for the pump.
     
  9. mo1905

    mo1905 Type 1 · BANNED

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    Gov'ts only ever consider short term. They're only in power short term. Also, I don't agree the pump should be given to everyone that wants it. OK, there are many that cannot do without them but there are also many that think they are a magic fix and they're not.

    Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
     
  10. Sid Bonkers

    Sid Bonkers Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Im not recommending Keys or anyone else, I was simply stating that if someone quotes or accuses someone of something, then they should get the facts straight and not post things that are incorrect. Keys suggested that both fats and sugars should be eaten in moderation, a seemingly sensible suggestion it seems to me. He did not suggest that fat should be replaced with sugar, although that is exactly how he is depicted by many low carbers.

    And to then suggest that a scientist cherry picked data is simply absurd wouldnt you agree?

    Or perhaps we should all simply believe everything people write on the internet?
     
  11. Sunnie

    Sunnie Family member · Member

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    Sid, you DID read enough of Keys to realize that he cherry picked what countries' data on cholesterol and morbidity...to use on his report? (that was the basis for all the low-fat nonsense?)

    I just had a 10 day vacation, that included 2 nine hour drives from Chicago to Tennessee, and back. I saw virtually NOTHING but wheat and soy farms the ENTIRE trip. And they were two different routes: first to Memphis, the second from Nashville (those cities are about 3 hours drive apart.)

    I was FLOORED, and it really drove home the point of how much farmland in America is dedicated to the production of wheat and soybeans. Why? Because of all of the processed foods that require high fructose corn syrup and soy in America. So the government protects and subsidizes these farmers in their wheat and soy production.
     
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  12. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
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    Not having read Taubes or Keys, I am not in a position to comment on their theories.

    Having worked in academic research, I am aware that many 'scientists' have 'cherry picked' data to suit their argument.

    I think (sorry controversial statement alert), some of us on forum also use anecdotal and subjective evidence to support the dietary regime we believe in.
     
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  13. mo1905

    mo1905 Type 1 · BANNED

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    Don't really care about Taubes or Keys to be honest. Just stick with a diet that suits. You can search the internet and you can always find opposing arguments for pretty much anything. Who doesn't cherry pick ? We all like to read papers that back up our own ideas.

    Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
     
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  14. Sunnie

    Sunnie Family member · Member

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    Understood, but we are talking multi-national dogma (based on Keye's 'cherry picking') that has changed the world's health. That's a pretty big deal.
     
  15. mo1905

    mo1905 Type 1 · BANNED

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    Not to me :)

    Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
     
  16. Sunnie

    Sunnie Family member · Member

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    Methinks your nickname should be 'ostrich.'
     
  17. kesun

    kesun Other · Well-Known Member

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    But as patients, isn't that all we can do? Doctors and public health experts base their views on statistics relating to wide populations to advise what is most likely to work for the average person. I base my diet on my meter readings, which is subjective in that it applies only to me but objective in that it is an unbiased measure of my body's response. We aren't experts; all we can do is say "this worked for me, and if you try it it may work for you".

    Kate
     
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  18. mo1905

    mo1905 Type 1 · BANNED

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    Why ? Because I don't read those books lol ! Never heard of them, not interested in them ! Thanks for your concern and I'm glad you place such importance on them :)

    Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
     
  19. mo1905

    mo1905 Type 1 · BANNED

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    Totally agree but there are a few on the forum that don't say "this worked for me.....", some here believe their particular diet/lifestyle is the ONLY way and will push it all day long. Don't ask me who lol ! Just look for yourselves ! It's out there :)
     
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  20. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
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    My point entirely @mo1905
     
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