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Once A Diabetic Always A Diabetic?

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Ojustaboo, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. Ojustaboo

    Ojustaboo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm a little confused (as usual)

    Desmond course said once a diabetic, always a diabetic.

    I've read that you can reverse your diabetes which is what I'm trying to do. But I've also read about people saying you can cure diabetes by reversing it.

    I don't know what I'm talking about as I'm new to all this, but reading through this forum and elsewhere, I would say once a diabetic, always a diabetic.

    Or to put it another way, if I stay on the LCHF diet (I hope I do) and get my diabetes in reversal, and get it far lower than say the average non diabetic, and I get invited to say a wedding.

    And at that wedding I cave in and have a night off. Drink a few beers, have a few slices of cake, buffet in the evening, have a few sarnies etc , correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't I be straight back to diabetic levels?

    I then read Pipp's 42 days to reverse diabetes levels and that sort of confirms it to me.

    A bit like a reformed alcoholic?

    Am I right (I'm not usually :) )
     
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  2. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    Yup! You’ve got it! I don’t believe I’ll ever be able to go back to my previous diet despite having a non diabetic HbA1c since last September. I don’t actually want to go back to my previous way of eating, it made me feel stodgy and lethargic :( I have remission on my avatar as that’s the description available here that’s nearest to how I feel and as I say in my signature the definition of remission is “A the temporary diminution of the severity of disease or pain”. I actually prefer the description ‘very well controlled’ which is how my GP describes me too.
     
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  3. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    What most of us controlled Type 2's are trying to do is keep our blood glucose low enough to avoid getting any of the complications. If you have vertigo, but avoid tall buildings, then you have controlled but not cured the problem.
    However, I am suprised that there are not more people who are cured. It is said that Type 2 is a result of diminished insulin production, insulin resistance or a combination of the two. In my case I suspect my pancreas is wearing out with old age and I am not going to get younger, so not much I can do about that except not put too much load on what insulin I can produce. But, with those only suffering with Insulin Resistance why is the situation nor reversible? If IR is brought on by too high blood glucose or excess weight why does it not go away when those things are addressed? Is there some switch that once activated is irreversible?
     
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  4. Grant_Vicat

    Grant_Vicat Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Ojustaboo have you seen the thread called Once A Diabetic, Always A Diabetic? posted today by @gettingamoveon ?
     
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  5. Ojustaboo

    Ojustaboo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    No I haven't. Will take a look. Never created the same thread title as someone else before (well to the best of my knowledge, at least not on the same day, so that's a first :)
     
    #5 Ojustaboo, Jul 23, 2018 at 9:08 PM
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  6. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Excess weight is brought on by insulin resistance.
    I find it very hard to address my weight issues although my HbA1cs have been good.
    Yes, I think there is a switch.
     
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  7. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    So what causes the insulin resistance?
     
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  8. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    In my case I reckon it was too many diets and in particular diet drinks. I am sure they are OK for most people in moderation, but they weren't OK for me ( and I don't do moderation well) .
     
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  9. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    IR is caused by your bodies own needs of insulin levels which isn't regulated properly. I personally blame the liver. Just a personal opinion.
    Fatty liver doesn't help anyone. Carbs cause fatty liver.
     
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  10. nomoredonuts

    nomoredonuts Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I'm getting deja vu all over again!
     
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  11. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    @Ojustaboo for me this is about definition, situation and a few other ".....tions". As a diabetic who looks to reverse the condition, you cannot but help get educated into what foods work in general to maintain non-diabetic range numbers. Unfortunately beer is liquid bread, regular sandwiches are high in sugar, regular cake is extremely sugary and buffets tend to be carb biased. Sorry to sound so blue, but I think I am painting an accurate picture, which by the numbers (over weight and obese) is not great for anyone. I estimate that a plateful of such food and a beer would equate to over 20 teaspoons of sugar, so this would challenge you for sure....let's not mess around it would shoot your sugars up without doubt. It is possible to tip-toe your way through the situation, but in the current climate "normal" means high carb and usually processed, so it is a decision by us educated, if we stick or twist.

    If you get a chance read "The Big Fat Surprise" to understand how we got to this so called "normal" I am listening for about the 3rd time to the audio version - unbelievable, and I would say a must read (especially for women who worry about cholesterol).
     
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  12. Grant_Vicat

    Grant_Vicat Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Just a comma different! I must get out more...
     
  13. Nondipoo

    Nondipoo Prediabetes · Member

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    I blame mine on taking HRT for 16 years. It made me hungry. It was prescribed when I broke my hip, but every time I tried to stop it I felt really jittery. I then got gall stones, which HRT also caused & managed to stop taking it, but by then was pre diabetic.
     
  14. steveelles

    steveelles · Active Member

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    You put your left leg in. Your left leg out. You do the hokey kokey with diabetes. You can reverse your symptoms. Because diabetes is a health condition, rather than a disease, it could be argued that you are no longer diabetic but it would be more accurate to say you are not diabetic, "right now". You will always be predisposed to it and it is progressive so, potentially, as you get older and maybe less active, it can rear its head again. IMHO it is best to think of yourself as always diabetic but sometimes you are great and other times you are not. Not just from a daily perspective but also a yearly one. ... and that's what it's all about.
     
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  15. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    The thing about diabetes is there has probably always been an inability to deal with a modern diet, which progressed to some extent all throughout life showing up as easy weight gain fatigue after eating carbs, feeling better on low carbs - and after what could have been decades steering a wobbly course towards full blown diabetes the lucky ones reverse it and head back towards normal.
    By eating the wrong foods for a day the effects would not be the same as doing the same thing day after day - I certainly do not see the same increases in BG levels as I would have done at diagnosis - but I still put on weight so easily and if I really indulged then I'd need to spend a week or two trying to remedy the gain in weight which would result.
    Having eaten two rather indulgent meals on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day last year and saw 5.6 on the meter both days, I know it is possible to manage to enjoy myself without too many carbs, so for me it really isn't worth going off course.
     
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  16. Ojustaboo

    Ojustaboo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My blood readings the past week have been between 5.5 and 6.5.

    Sunday went out to big family get together. I was told there would be cold meats in the buffet etc ( I'm on LCHF diet).

    No such luck, even the chicken had breadcrumbs on it.

    I avoided potatoes and bread, but had to eat something, so said to my wife "sod it, I'll go easy but am having a day off as I'm starving"

    When I got home, checked my blood, 9.5
     
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  17. Shirley N.

    Shirley N. Prediabetes · Member

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    I watched today on YouTube a very interesting interview. The interviewee was Dr Joseph Kraft, a retired pathologist from Chicago who was the first, as part of a multi-disciplinary team, to devise a way of measuring blood insulin levels back in 1970. The interview took place in 2015 when he was a very clear thinking 93.

    He went on to devise the Kraft Test, a glucose tolerance test where insulin as well as blood glucose levels are measured following an oral dose of glucose. He claimed a result of this test which showed that an abnormally high and/or delayed insulin response meant that a person had diabetes long (about a decade) before the blood glucose response was abnormal. He went on to test thousands of patients over 20 years. He claimed he had never known of a patient who had coronary heart disease who was not already diabetic according to this test.

    He himself had found abnormalities in the hearts of patients who had died young which he thought might be due to the effects of high insulin levels, but he did not have the backing to investigate further. Other doctors also believed that high insulin caused damage to the inner ear causing balance problems and noises in the ear. Another doctor found damage to the kidneys on autopsy in younger "non-diabetic" patients similar to the damage in older diabetic patients. These doctors were largely disregarded and ridiculed at the time and did not pursue the matter presumably for the sake of their careers.

    Dr Kraft still believed that the vascular damage was caused by abnormally high insulin levels, not high blood glucose, though that may be a factor later in the illness. This, as far as I can see, shines a very different light on treatment. Though insulin can be life-saving in an emergency, unless the doses can be regulated within the normal range, it may be the main cause of the very complications we seek to avoid. Dr Kraft would not commit himself on the benefits of various diets, he was a pathologist after all, but the risks of high blood insulin he indicated, would suggest that control of blood glucose by diet only, should be pursued wherever possible, to enable insulin doses to be reduced or discontinued.

    The link is YouTube "Kraft - Father of the Insulin Assay" Also interesting is his letter to Professor Grant in New Zealand available on https://profgrant.com/2013/08/16/joseph-kraft-why-hyperinsulinemia-matters/

    Dr Kraft died on 21st February 2017 aged 95.
     
    #17 Shirley N., Sep 13, 2018 at 1:20 AM
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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