Prof Roy Taylor's work on reversing type 2 diabetes

[badcat]

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclacuk/newcastlemagneticresonancecentre/files/counterpoint-study.pdf
This gives some data (self report) from 100 or so individuals - some used the research protocol (shakes etc) some didnt ( reduced portion size, normal food). Some were recently diagnosed, others up to 28 years post diagnosis

 

[Jax66]

I still question whether just a low-carb diet would achieve similar results to the ND diet. I would like to see more reported data comparing the ND calorie restricted diet with an LC diet with the same level of carbs.

I think the ongoing study of T2DM remission will be interesting when it is published. I have a friend and his wife participating. Both did extremely well initially using shakes (Cambridge) @ 800cals per day. Both the 'star pupils'. A year on and my colleague has put on 2 stone, he has undone much of what he did initially. Bottom line is Eat Real Food. Neither of them are motivated to plan and cook their food and their junk food addiction has not been addressed by this study because they were given shakes. I was motivated by this friend so I did two rounds of the 8 week blood sugar diet and now live a Real Food low carb lifestyle. I have kept my weight off and remain off my meds.

 

[Begonia]

I was thinking of trying an 800 cal per day LCHF diet for a couple of weeks to see the effects on my bloods. Will prob give it a go next week. Just coming up with the food list now.

Hi @bulkbiker I believe the Michael Mosley Blood Sugar Diet is actually an 800 kcal Low Carb mediteranean style diet. From memory its about 50g carb but not high fat. Guess you'd struggle to get a lot of fat with that calorie restriction.

 

[Pipp]

I think the ongoing study of T2DM remission will be interesting when it is published. I have a friend and his wife participating. Both did extremely well initially using shakes (Cambridge) @ 800cals per day. Both the 'star pupils'. A year on and my colleague has put on 2 stone, he has undone much of what he did initially. Bottom line is Eat Real Food. Neither of them are motivated to plan and cook their food and their junk food addiction has not been addressed by this study because they were given shakes. I was motivated by this friend so I did two rounds of the 8 week blood sugar diet and now live a Real Food low carb lifestyle. I have kept my weight off and remain off my meds.

That is the part of the method people tend to miss, @Jax66 , ND method is not merely a quick 8 weeks of calorie restriction. The difficulty for many is preventing weight gain later. The research paper quoted by @badcat does mention that long term avoidance of regaining weight is essential, and that a dietary regime needs to be established to do so.

Congratulations on your success @Jax66

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi @bulkbiker I believe the Michael Mosley Blood Sugar Diet is actually an 800 kcal Low Carb mediteranean style diet. From memory its about 50g carb but not high fat. Guess you'd struggle to get a lot of fat with that calorie restriction.

Yes that's why I'm formulating my own.. Far to many carbs in Mosley for me.. So far what I have come up with is about 6g per day of carb but still tweaking. I'll start a thread when I try it out.

 

[bulkbiker]

That is the part of the method people tend to miss, @Jax66 , ND method is not merely a quick 8 weeks of calorie restriction. The difficulty for many is preventing weight gain later. The research paper quoted by @badcat does mention that long term avoidance of regaining weight is essential, and that a dietary regime needs to be established to do so.

Congratulations on your success @Jax66

Exactly @Pipp and there I think is where the problems will come. Long term calorie restriction is not only hard but often self defeating as metabolisms slow as well. I think a feasting/fasting regime would work better but it seems Prof Taylor is still of the CICO frame of mind.

 

[Begonia]

Yes that's why I'm formulating my own.. Far to many carbs in Mosley for me.. So far what I have come up with is about 6g per day of carb but still tweaking. I'll start a thread when I try it out.

It will be very interesting to see how you get on.

 

[Tannith]

I'm convinced that the ND can reverse diabetes. Just not sure if I personally can do it. Dentist this moring so no lunch possible. same tomorrow morning. I am considering fasting completely both days except for tea. Not sure if I shall manage it though. Jax 66 said he had friends doing the ND with Cambridge shakes. Was this the official Prof Taylor study or a copy Jax? I thought he did only optimax shakes?

 

[Peerless67]

"On your journey a couple of things to consider I think, look at the recipes on the site. It is interesting that the diet - even food rather than shakes calls for no fish, no meat, no dairy, no alcohol. Interesting and perhaps important to the way the body deals with protein I think" Thank you Fleegle.
Please can you Fleegle, or anyone tell me where to find Prof Taylor's recipes for doing it with food. Especially interested in why (and Where)he says no meat,fish or dairy.

PDF contains sample recipes

 

[Mbaker]

I don't think I am brave enough to do the full ND, so I am just going to do the best I can and try to stick to 900-1000 cals a day for 8 weeks. I expect, since I am eating more cals than he recommends, I shall have to do it for longer to get the same effect. I have no doubt it will work for me as long as I stick to it for long enough to lose the pancreatic fat in which my pancreatic cells are drowning (poor things!). As to maintaining the reversal I don't think you can blame any diet for what happens after you finish doing it. Its up to the individual to ensure they don't go back to their former bad habits.

That is still a significant calorie reduction. If you feel up to it on some days you might want to do some walking to get you closer to the calorific protocol and increase your metabolism to burn more fat without over doing it.

 

[Mbaker]

I still question whether just a low-carb diet would achieve similar results to the ND diet. I would like to see more reported data comparing the ND calorie restricted diet with an LC diet with the same level of carbs.

What I can say is that the weight has literally dropped off my wife's patients (mainly non-diabetics, she has also lost over 2 kgs without adding exercise) who have adopted LCHF. Around 6 weeks ago we took our body composition scales to my next door neighbour, 2 days ago he paid us massive complements having lost 5 kgs.

 

[Mbaker]

I think the ongoing study of T2DM remission will be interesting when it is published. I have a friend and his wife participating. Both did extremely well initially using shakes (Cambridge) @ 800cals per day. Both the 'star pupils'. A year on and my colleague has put on 2 stone, he has undone much of what he did initially. Bottom line is Eat Real Food. Neither of them are motivated to plan and cook their food and their junk food addiction has not been addressed by this study because they were given shakes. I was motivated by this friend so I did two rounds of the 8 week blood sugar diet and now live a Real Food low carb lifestyle. I have kept my weight off and remain off my meds.

Very interesting. The psychological and physical aspect of maybe being taught how to prepare nutritious meals may have helped, as this is closer to what you are doing.

 

[Fleegle]

Just my opinion not based on experience.
I have read a great deal of material and I wonder how significant the shakes might be in this. There is evidence that food in the first digestive tract sets of the wrong type of Insulin response - so perhaps the faster you pass through that the better - and liquid might pass through quickly.

Then there is the significance of the 8 weeks and the type of food which means the body ha to scavenge fat from the pancreas - again could the wrong types of food which may well be more sustaining, trigger the wrong response?

Having dropped in excess of 15% weight now, and knowing this is about fat threshold, I can tell you my intolerance for carbs seems to be going up not down and so the ND is my only next choice....
Wish the December data was around now....

 

[lindisfel]

It seems a problem for those undertaking this diet to graduate to a sustainable diet? Further calorie restriction is not the answer since hunger will not go away without major nutrient balance changes. D.

 

[Tannith]

It seems a problem for those undertaking this diet to graduate to a sustainable diet? Further calorie restriction is not the answer since hunger will not go away without major nutrient balance changes. D.

I would use the harris benedict calculation or an online calculator to work out my new daily calorie requirement after feeding in my new after diet weight. Then eat that number of calories only. I imagine I would soon get used to seeing what that number of calories in a meal looked like to avoid continuous counting. But I'm not there yet so haven't tried this myself.

 

[Brunneria]

It seems a problem for those undertaking this diet to graduate to a sustainable diet? Further calorie restriction is not the answer since hunger will not go away without major nutrient balance changes. D.

I think this is the age old problem following every diet ever, in the history of the world. Weight loss is (comparatively) easy. Maintaining the new weight and preventing regain is the far bigger challenge, and it is unending.

But that is the same with any diet for weight loss. I don't think the ND is any different.

Personally I gave up on fast weight loss a long time ago. I much prefer a snails pace, because it seems to avoid the rebound tendencies. Of course, sometimes the snail grinds to a halt. For months. But at least it isn't doing a YoYo snail dance, if you see what I mean?

 

[bulkbiker]

I would use the harris benedict calculation or an online calculator to work out my new daily calorie requirement after feeding in my new after diet weight. Then eat that number of calories only. I imagine I would soon get used to seeing what that number of calories in a meal looked like to avoid continuous counting. But I'm not there yet so haven't tried this myself.

The problem with the calories in calories out way of thinking is that it assumes the body makes no adjustments itself and that your basal metabolic rate is constant. It would seem from various studies that prolonged caloric restriction leads to a slow down in metabolic rate so you constantly are required to consume fewer and fewer calories which is why so many people loose weight then put it all back on and more besides.

 

[serenity648]

I think we have to re-educate ourselves to accept that some hunger is normal. Once we have eaten sufficient for our needs, then any residual hunger is not something which needs to be addressed, as we have to learn to live with it and accept that our modern hunger/grazing/never being permitted to feel empty is a social construct due to advertisers and media teaching us that hunger is to be feared and avoided.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I am very rarely hungry, even after no food for hours on end. On the occasions I do feel "empty" I have a cup of tea and am immediately OK again.

 

[ickihun]

That is the part of the method people tend to miss, @Jax66 , ND method is not merely a quick 8 weeks of calorie restriction. The difficulty for many is preventing weight gain later. The research paper quoted by @badcat does mention that long term avoidance of regaining weight is essential, and that a dietary regime needs to be established to do so.

Congratulations on your success @Jax66

That's where I went wrong. At 15yr old I didn't care about maintenance, as long as I lost.
This time my efforts will have to be on maintenance.
I have a superb educator on wear living well training programme via tier3. (Neil) He keeps my feet off the table so he gets my full praise.
Once again, I've flagged up I'm eating too much protein, especially now I'm sedate, a lot.
We have been given Eating Plan A to comply with 3 portions/units of protein. I'm having on average 7. Gulp! I better @Kristin251 isn't surprised, eh?