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Really annoyed by NHS Diabetes prevention program

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by RosieMaxwell, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. NéjiSaïdi

    NéjiSaïdi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Your case proves the rule: treat with food. And that's exactly what you've being doing. Stick to the low carb diet and you'll be pleasantly surprised at how your body is healing. I did the same my self: reduced carbs to a minimum, actually doing all I can to make my diet really LCHF (Low Carb High Fat). My body responded very favorable. I have never taken any medication to manage my T2D. In fact the only medicine I am taking is for intra-ocular hypertension. I invite you to have a look at my labs (my blog) and see for yourself. All I can say is take matters into your own hands, you are your own GP. Your NHS GP will, one day, see the truth in what you are doing; low carb is still a novelty for many GPs and patients alike. Good luck.
     
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  2. EggsEggsEggs

    EggsEggsEggs Type 2 · Active Member

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    I refused to go on diabetes course, because they use the Eatwell Guide, based on low fat, with plenty of carbs. When I asked the awkward questions, like " Why do you insist on carbs for people with diabetes, you wouldn't make coeliacs eat bread" they have no answer.

    Only you can make a decision, it's your body. Probability is, that the practice gets more money when they do tick box stuff for diabetes.
     
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  3. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

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    I never got to go on any course - I was given details when diagnosed but nothing was available locally. Some months later, after a revue by my GP and I mentioned this he said "You don't actually need to go on a course, do you!" He'd originally pointed me in the directions of Atkins for weight loss, and we'd both seen the results of my low carbing.:)

    What really p****s me off is that the benefits of low carb/ketogenic diets for diabetics were originally recognised over 200 years ago. :banghead: I often feel that we're going backwards in our scientific, etc, knowledge.
     
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  4. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Agree with all that 's been said and please go back when you've lost more weight and brought your blood sugars down so that you can tell him why this has worked well for you. You have hit the nail on the head to say that losing fat is about managing hunger and having ridden that rodeo you know what works for you and its not calories/points/syns/portion sizes! Go for it and come back here for support.
     
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  5. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Of course what type 2 diabetics need is less carbs not more but I should point out, from the evidence of my fellow students on a DESMOND course, for some people the Eatwell guide does represent less carbs. I was amazed at the ignorance of some people on the course, never having looked at a nutrition label, having no idea what carbs were, indeed having no concept of weights in grams. Reading this forum it is easy to forget that not everyone is the type who research things they don't understand. So while the DESMOND and other courses could be very much better on nutrition, that is not all they are about so I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand.
     
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  6. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I agree but the risk of “any improvement being better than none“ advice is that people go on to think this is the best advice rather than absolute minimum.
     
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    #26 HSSS, Aug 4, 2020 at 1:41 PM
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  7. mariefrance

    mariefrance Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Rosie
    I agree with Mr Pot. It's still worth considering the Diabetes Prevention course as it hopefully will be more than just the nutrition. My GP put me forward for the Desmond course. I didn't get a place on the course until 4 months after I'd been diagnosed. By that time I'd found my own path, with much thanks to this forum, Youtube, and Jason Fung, but I still found some of the other info on diabetes quite helpful. I also found out some useful info about local services from other participants , (e.g. a local GP who prescribes test strips for people with type II diabetes).

    You're right to be frustrated by the dietary info, me too, but one other benefit of going is you can pass on your experience of what's working for you to the group - even in the gentlest of ways - you never know how it might make a difference to someone else.

    Having said all that, I was retired by that time and so there were no issues with time off work, etc to think about.
     
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  8. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
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    Yes, but there does seem to be the underlying assumption by the ‘educators’ that everyone being sent on these courses has been gorging on highly processed ‘junk foods’. Also that there are ‘healthy carbs’ which need to be consumed as the main component. When this doesn’t work, it is deemed to be because the poor, uneducated, patient has not been motivated enough to follow advice.
     
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  9. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I suspect the position with the NHS is that they're ignoring something that obviously works in favour of going down the path of least likely litigation. They seem to be concerned that going very low carb can lead to health problems of its own. They're also still fixated on fat being the enemy, and the increased fat intake of a typical low-carb diet troubles them. What they don't want is to find out in 20 years time that low carb high fat was a harmful option for some people, and that those people are suing for compensation, because insufficient research was done before advocating the diet.

    I imagine many NHS employees would be happy to give out low carb higher fat dietary advice if allowed to. The nurse at my GP's practice seemed very happy that I'd chosen this route, in spite of having given me the same old 'balanced diet, switch your white bread to wholemeal' advice that she's no doubt professionally required to churn out.
     
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  10. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Which is exactly what’s happened with low fat high carb ironically, maybe we should sue for becoming type 2 under their advice?
     
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  11. Krystyna23040

    Krystyna23040 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    My DN 100% supports my 20g carbs maximum per day. She emailed me a report on our last consultation last month. At the end of the report there were diet recommendations for a high wholemeal carbs low fat diet.

    I was shocked but of course you are right - she is professionally required to do this.
     
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  12. masonap

    masonap Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Much of the NHS advice is wrong, especially when they continue to use the ‘eat well’ plate as an example for diabetics. Low carb is definitely the way forward. I’ve not seen anything that says it is bad for you, in fact quite the opposite. People say you need carbs, and that’s true, but carbs are in almost everything we eat so even a low carb way of eating has more than enough carbs for us. Note I’m advocating low carb not zero carb! I’ve lost a lot of weight, cut my meds, and my blood tests are fantastic.
     
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  13. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

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    As far as I'm aware we do not need carbs, but we do need glucose to survive. While this can be generated via our carbohydrate consumption, our bodies are quite able and designed to create all the glucose we require.
     
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  14. RosieMaxwell

    RosieMaxwell Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I think the interesting thing is how long it takes big institutions to adapt as nutritional science gets better. Lots of people see the "high fat" part of LCHF as eating massive amounts of chips or something - vs olive oil, salmon, full fat yogurt etc. I think that maybe the powers that be just decide the difference is too complex to explain and so try to keep people off fat entirely.
     
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  15. RosieMaxwell

    RosieMaxwell Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Btw, I am due for a blood test to check my A1c levels this month. I'm nervous about it but I've lost almost 33kg being low carb then Keto so I am unlikely to change - at least until my BMI hits the normal range. I only weigh myself once a month so I don't know for sure but I believe I should have just ticked down from the Obese bracket to the Overweight bracket.

    Hoping my sugars reflect this.
     
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  16. MrsA2

    MrsA2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Even if the tests don't quite match up yet, you have done good girl. That weight loss is splendid and you should be proud. Whoop whoop
     
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  17. Dr Snoddy

    Dr Snoddy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Amazing weight loss results - well done!!!!!
     
  18. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Last year I was in Hospital awaiting a procedure, and I waited 6 months for it to happen. I was at the time LCHF, so going onto hospital fare was not easy. My bgl shot up into the 20's and 30's so I modified the meal plan and succeeded in getting it down. While I was doing this my bgl would often go above 15. Now the consultant was happy while I kept it to 13 or below, but 15 was not considered a bad result. I too was being coerced to eat more carbs and to have a proper breakfast of Cherrios or porridge etc.

    I queried why 13, and it seems to be that most of the patient he sees are on insulin treatment so for them a 13 was a good number. I was one of the first he had seen that got below 5 in the mornings, and it frightened him. That is a hypo on his watch.

    To cut this short, I was taken off my diabetic meds while on the ward, and suddenly I found I could actually eat carbs again. I was actually in proper Remission and had a happy birthday party on the ward with choccie cake, 2 strudel tarts, about 4 choc cup cakes, and my bgl remained below 8. Unfortunately when I had the Op they put me back onto insulin and they controlled my diabetes remotely until I was discharged home and restarted my LCHF. again.

    So most HCP's seem to regard control regimes to be needing to be between 5 and 13 for "good control". My GP wants me at 7, and I am currently running at 6.4 averaged.

    My GP had learned to trust me and no longer lectures me. But I am the only one of his patients that is doing LC and staying off the insulin. He too has to toe the NHS line and the Practice could be sued if he advised a different strategy that is not in his procedures. This is the power of EATWELL. But they cannot force you to change to it. Only by applying for a court injunction or having you sectioned can they take that control. All they can do is refer you to another doctor or practice.
     
  19. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    Some would say the surgery could be sued for advising High Carb/Eatwell as there are many other experts who use real science and not food industry funded research such as PHE. I look forward to the day someone does go legal on the bad advice. BTW my lovely DN did suggest I cut the carbs when my HBA1C went up a bit so there are some who seek the truth.
     
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  20. Mrs T 123

    Mrs T 123 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    What I remember from attending the Desmond Course - nurses said you can still eat pizza but may be go for thin crust instead and just eat less, again just cut back on potatoes may be have 2 instead of 4, someone in my group loved magnums and was advised may be just not have a full one and also advised on low fat for everything (really! - the foregoing is a no no for me these days) - these days I make my pizza base from mozzarella cheese and eggs, not that I found out that from attending the course - course was really a waste of my time and a lot of rubbish - I don't think I actually learnt anything useful on it at all.
     
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