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Really annoyed by NHS Diabetes prevention program

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by RosieMaxwell, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. HappyFlappa

    HappyFlappa · Newbie

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  2. HappyFlappa

    HappyFlappa · Newbie

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    Hi Rosie
    I was diagnosed a few months ago and I have nothing but praise for the programme. You should definitely give it a chance and not view the people who are trying to help you and give you support as patronising. We’re all different in the way we communicate things to others.
    I have found all the information and - actually- education I have received from the programme as invaluable. It has changed my life for the better and I will not be able to thank them enough for kicking me up the pants and setting me on a better course.
    So my advice is to accept the help you’ve been given with open arms.
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    What advice have they provided you with so far?
    Anything specifically about diet?
     
  4. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I guess it all depends what you know before attending and where you are starting from diet wise.

    For some it is educational, despite some glaring oversimplification, and for some the food guidance represents an improvement.

    However it is still very far from optimal dietary advice on many of these courses and the risk is those people attending go away thinking this is the best they can do and it is not.
     
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  5. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The DESMOND course is a set of modules which can be taught to, and then by, non specialists so the quality of the presentation is likely to vary a lot. In my case it was two people from the hospital diabetes team so was probably better than many may have experienced. Incidentally the online version MyDesmond may be free access now due to Covid.
    https://www.mydesmond.com/home/
     
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  6. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
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    Thank you, @Mr_Pot . As I have never been offered the opportunity to attend one of these courses, I appreciate being able to see for myself what they are all about.
    Edit: waiting for verification code and to see if need to be referred by GP.
     
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  7. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
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    and this is the reply to my query regarding verification code.

    Thank you for your below email. Unfortunately the 3 months free access to MyDESMOND has now ceased. However if MyDESMOND is commissioned in your area, you would therefore still be able to access this through your local services. Therefore please contact your GP or your local Diabetes Service to see what Diabetes Education Programme is available in your area.

    Take care and stay safe


    Thank you & best wishes


    Ah well, looks like I am still going to be left guessing what they are all about.:banghead:
     
  8. Mathewted

    Mathewted Type 1 · Member

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    [QUOTE="What does everyone else think?[/QUOTE]

    Hello Rosie
    I know this is some time from your original post but I felt the need to encourage you as many others have done. Although I live with Type 1 diabetes rather than Type 2, my story is that for 30 years I followed the NHS advice that I had to eat carbohydrates, count them , and dose appropriately with Insulin - I now have peripheral neuropathy, have lost about 70% of my eyesight, have had numerous hypo induced seizures and a diagnosis of having multiple TIAs - aka mini-strokes; i'm lucky to be alive. Four years ago i started on a 'food as medicine' journey, started cutting out all processed foods and then coming across a healthy ketogenic lifestyle and feel - and believe I am - a much healthier person in mind and body than i was before. I do not believe that ketosis is a natural state for humans to be in all the time but we have evolved / been created with the ability to convert both glucose or ketones to energy and thus it must mean that both states are natural at least some part of the time. Our problem these days is we are taught - and to be kind to the medics, they are taught - that you need carbs for energy when that is only half or less of of the story.
    If it were me I would - given my current level of knowledge - ask the Prevent Diabetes people why I need to eat carbohydrates at all? What are the essential Carbohydrates - much like the essential Fatty Acids, Vitamins and Minerals? Pose the question that if I had presented to my GP having been eating low carb for 10 years with a BMI considered to be healthy, and a glucose level considered to be healthy, that I would not have been talking to them in the first place. There are also excellent Medical Doctors who are proponents of low carb lifestyles for people living with Diabetes Mellitus such as Dr Moseley, and Dr Cavan who may provide them with 'food' for thought.

    I think you were doing fine before you were referred to these people and hope that you were able to continue what they would have seen as an experiment on yourself and have proven that - not only have you averted a type 2 Diabetes diagnosis but also become a much healthier person in mind and body all around.

    Top banana too your!
     
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  9. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    Hello Rosie
    I know this is some time from your original post but I felt the need to encourage you as many others have done. Although I live with Type 1 diabetes rather than Type 2, my story is that for 30 years I followed the NHS advice that I had to eat carbohydrates, count them , and dose appropriately with Insulin - I now have peripheral neuropathy, have lost about 70% of my eyesight, have had numerous hypo induced seizures and a diagnosis of having multiple TIAs - aka mini-strokes; i'm lucky to be alive. Four years ago i started on a 'food as medicine' journey, started cutting out all processed foods and then coming across a healthy ketogenic lifestyle and feel - and believe I am - a much healthier person in mind and body than i was before. I do not believe that ketosis is a natural state for humans to be in all the time but we have evolved / been created with the ability to convert both glucose or ketones to energy and thus it must mean that both states are natural at least some part of the time. Our problem these days is we are taught - and to be kind to the medics, they are taught - that you need carbs for energy when that is only half or less of of the story.
    If it were me I would - given my current level of knowledge - ask the Prevent Diabetes people why I need to eat carbohydrates at all? What are the essential Carbohydrates - much like the essential Fatty Acids, Vitamins and Minerals? Pose the question that if I had presented to my GP having been eating low carb for 10 years with a BMI considered to be healthy, and a glucose level considered to be healthy, that I would not have been talking to them in the first place. There are also excellent Medical Doctors who are proponents of low carb lifestyles for people living with Diabetes Mellitus such as Dr Moseley, and Dr Cavan who may provide them with 'food' for thought.

    I think you were doing fine before you were referred to these people and hope that you were able to continue what they would have seen as an experiment on yourself and have proven that - not only have you averted a type 2 Diabetes diagnosis but also become a much healthier person in mind and body all around.

    Top banana too your![/QUOTE]
    Sadly Dr Mosely is a Calorie follower and only slowly coming round to realising that Carbs matter most.
     
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  10. Bex72

    Bex72 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Rosie, I was diagnosed T2 just 8 days ago. The practice nurse left a couple of diabetes magazines for me, one with "healthy" diet recipes showing big bowls of pasta and other carbs.
    Personally, I've cut out carbs and my BG has reverted back to normal levels for a non diabetic.
    I was prescribed Metformin and had the dose increased to two tablets. However, I could not handle the increased dose (the symptoms were too unpleasant) and stopped taking altogether when my BG reached a good level.
    2 tablespoons of porridge oats was enough to trigger a 9 point spike after 2 hours.
    I am not overweight (just have belly fat), I lost 2 pounds in a week.... cutting carbs is not leading to rapid weight loss.
    It would be good to get diet advice from diabetic nurses and doctors that believe in the benefits of low carb. I am testing my blood regularly at the moment to help my own understanding of how to manage this condition.
    I do know that your experience is personal to you and over time you'll understand more about what does and doesn't work for you.
     
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  11. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    There are many (not here in the forum but 'oot there) who use LC diets just for weight loss. Most give up because they do not see the weight falling away like on other Low Cal diets they are used to. But, the problem with massive weight loss, impressive as it may be at first, is that when the diet stops, the weight just piles on again, and they suffer rotating door syndrome.

    LC weight loss that is more gradual tends to be not just the water loss that crash diets use to impress us, but is more mellow, and less roller coasting. I have been LC for over 5 years now. My weight dropped from 18 stones steadily down to 10 stone, and I have remained fairly steady at that weight for 4 years at least. I sometimes shake the scales in case the pointer is jammed, but no. 62.3 kg repeatedly every week give or take half a kg.
     
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  12. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think we should write Low Carb or Low Cal in posts, LC can be very confusing.
     
  13. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Prefer LCHO myself since this is what the endo's use but equally confusing to most. I take your point
     
  14. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Low Carb High Offal? :)
     
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  15. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    #55 Oldvatr, Aug 16, 2020 at 2:45 PM
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
  16. Mrs T 123

    Mrs T 123 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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  17. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    It is what used to be called Melts and Lights. It is basically meat cuts that are often avoided but are high in nutrients. Such cuts of meat such as kidneys, liver, heart, and extends to other yukky bits such as spleen, eyes, man bits, etc. In Arabian society it is considered very rude to refuse an offer of such delights, and also impolite not to burp appreciatively after consuming such. I spent a few years in Libya, and learnt to suppress my squeamish nature. Lawrence of Arabia understood such things. These cuts of meat are high in essential vitamins and minerals. They make good pet foods too. I believe haggis is a variant of this theme,

    Forgot to add: Also referred to as sweetbreads. and includes brawn.
     
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    #57 Oldvatr, Aug 16, 2020 at 4:52 PM
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
  18. Mrs T 123

    Mrs T 123 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks for that - every day is a school day - I love haggis but it is probably too carby for me these days - I have also had liver and onions which I believe is full of iron and good for you.
     
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  19. RosieMaxwell

    RosieMaxwell Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I’ve had an insane couple of weeks at work so hadn’t seen a lot of these responses!

    Thank you to everyone who took time to share their thoughts. I think the programme is just not for me - though I should perhaps be less judgemental since it clearly has helped several people in just this thread.

    For myself personally I think I’ve become more confident of my diet choices as I’ve seen the weight come off and as I’ve started to feel healthier.

    It’s been 27 weeks and I’ve lost around 37kg. I’m rarely hungry even though if I compare what I eat now to what I used to eat before it’s significantly less. But the food now keeps me full and satisfied.

    I work out at varying degrees of intensity - the elliptical, yoga or walking - but I do it every day. I don’t think I’ve had a single day without some activity and that certainly would have been an alien concept to the old me.

    All in all I can say that my personal experience has shown me that going low carb is absolutely the right choice for me.
     
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  20. Lizzie2

    Lizzie2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I would buy yourself “Reverse your T2 Diabetes” Dr David Cavan and a blood sugar meter and do exactly what he says in the book to work out what sort of foods raise your blood sugar - pretty sure you will discover it’s carbs! Once you’ve done that you know what food’s are good for you and what’s not.
    Look at the Diet Doctor website and sign up for their online course too, it runs for about six weeks and shows you the sort of things you should be eating and what to avoid too.
     
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