Well unless they are following a pure carnivore diet then every meal that everyone here eats will be "carbohydrate containing" I think you might need to tighten up your definition?
but were then able to eat a carbohydrate-containing meal without their blood glucose reaching diabetic levels post-meal.
Yes, I meant a non-low carb meal.Well unless they are following a pure carnivore diet then every meal that everyone here eats will be "carbohydrate containing" I think you might need to tighten up your definition?
I see OK just me being a little pedantic or taking things too literallyTheoretically, yes, but it would not be enough to be measured on home scales. I was assuming that the members here would only have home scales to monitor their weight with. The original remark by @zand was that members here had similar 'reversals' with LCHF but with little or no weight loss. I was just asking for confirmation that Zand was saying that some people had followed LCHF for a while, had little or no weight loss but were then able to eat a carbohydrate-containing meal without their blood glucose reaching diabetic levels post-meal.
Hi DarkHorse this is an interesting question but I suspect that many of us would not really be able to answer it. Overall weight loss and blood sugar reductions are things we can measure easily by ourselves. To measure fat loss from the liver would require a scan of some sort and those are not so easy for everyone to get. I don't know how accurately a liver function test could measure liver fats but even so you still need the Dr for it, so it might be better to look to the research for an answer rather than personal testimonials possibly. Good luck with your research, let us know if find anything of interest.I was posing a question about loss of fat from liver and pancreas WITHOUT weight loss.
There's seems to have been some misunderstanding here. Somebody else asserted that some of the people here have followed LCHF and 'reversed' diabetes with 'little or no weight loss'. I just wanted to check that they were saying that those people were achieving non-diabetic blood glucose levels after a non-low carb meal. You then answered that question by suggesting it was due to loss of fat from the liver and pancreas. I then posed the question of whether there was any evidence that this happened without weight-loss. Somebody else then answered that their fatty liver had gone following 'weight-loss'. My reply to them was just to emphasise that my question was about people who had 'little or no weight-loss' not people who had weight-loss.Hi DarkHorse this is an interesting question but I suspect that many of us would not really be able to answer it. Overall weight loss and blood sugar reductions are things we can measure easily by ourselves. To measure fat loss from the liver would require a scan of some sort and those are not so easy for everyone to get. I don't know how accurately a liver function test could measure liver fats but even so you still need the Dr for it, so it might be better to look to the research for an answer rather than personal testimonials possibly. Good luck with your research, let us know if find anything of interest.
There's seems to have been some misunderstanding here. Somebody else asserted that some of the people here have followed LCHF and 'reversed' diabetes with 'little or no weight loss'. I just wanted to check that they were saying that those people were achieving non-diabetic blood glucose levels after a non-low carb meal. You then answered that question by suggesting it was due to loss of fat from the liver and pancreas. I then posed the question of whether there was any evidence that this happened without weight-loss. Somebody else then answered that their fatty liver had gone following 'weight-loss'. My reply to them was just to emphasise that my question was about people who had 'little or no weight-loss' not people who had weight-loss.
Just to repeat, my initial question was whether people who had followed LCHF with 'little or no weight-loss' were achieving non-diabetic blood glucose levels after non-low carb meals. This question would not need specialist equipment to be measured. I was not doing any research, I was just trying to clarify a comment made by someone else in the discussion.
There's seems to have been some misunderstanding here. Somebody else asserted that some of the people here have followed LCHF and 'reversed' diabetes with 'little or no weight loss'. I just wanted to check that they were saying that those people were achieving non-diabetic blood glucose levels after a non-low carb meal. You then answered that question by suggesting it was due to loss of fat from the liver and pancreas. I then posed the question of whether there was any evidence that this happened without weight-loss. Somebody else then answered that their fatty liver had gone following 'weight-loss'. My reply to them was just to emphasise that my question was about people who had 'little or no weight-loss' not people who had weight-loss.
Just to repeat, my initial question was whether people who had followed LCHF with 'little or no weight-loss' were achieving non-diabetic blood glucose levels after non-low carb meals. This question would not need specialist equipment to be measured. I was not doing any research, I was just trying to clarify a comment made by someone else in the discussion.
It's Low Carb High FatIt the very reason I have wondered if the reversal of diabetes with HCLF is a myth. I
Thanks Lucylocket. I keep doing that don't I? I'm writing in a rush and not paying proper attention.It's Low Carb High Fat
LCHF.
Let us turn Lustig on his head a bit. What his research demonstrated was that there is an association between fructose and fatty liver. For years nutritionists have been claiming that fructose does not produce a glucose response, and had not effects on the body. It was not absorbed and passed straight through, so was deemed to be safe for diabetics to consume in vast quantities.
What Lustig demonstrated was that in fact fructose is not metabolised like other carbs, but does go straight to the liver where it is stored as lipid fat and eventually becoming a possible cause of NAFLD and Insulin resistant pancreas. So for a T2D, fructose has become a serious no-no and a food class to use only in moderation.
I pose the question so far unanswered, and that is if fructose is linked to NAFLD, then what about the other sugar forms such as maltose, dextrose, and even lactose that manufacturers add to sweeten low sugar products? Given that, then how about the sugar alcohols malitol, dextrol, sorbitol etc. Do they also bypass the metabolism inly to end up in the liver as well? Is this the scourge of modern man causing death by a thousand processed meals?
Apologies Dark Horse, I did misunderstand you.
You are asking if there are any individuals out there who have followed a LCHF diet without losing outer body fat but have been able to lose enough liver fat in order to reverse their diabetes to the point that they can consume a level of carbs that exceeds their LCHF levels without any adverse reaction i.e. a non-diabetic reaction. Is that right?
If so then the dearth of answers to your question would seem to suggest that aren't many, if any.
Personally I would find it interesting to learn if anyone who had followed a LCHF diet, with or without outer body ft loss, had been able to reverse their diabetes to the point they could eat carbs that exceed their LCHF level without adverse reaction.
As I have said before I have read many many testimonials of people achieving fantastic blood sugar control with LCHF but none who seem to have achieved this kind of reversal. It the very reason I have wondered if the reversal of diabetes with LCHF is a myth. I have pondered whether it is possible that by starving your body of carbs you actually make it more sensitive to carbs, though I don’t know how exactly this might work, its just a thought. However the testimonials seem to suggest that once you go down the LCHF road you have to stay on it for ever. Of course this throws up the question of what exactly does reversal mean, and that differs from one person to another. Enough said about this already.
Then again it may just mean that not many people have read your question. Maybe post a new thread?
Hi Oldvatr, that's very interesting. The only work I've read of Robert Lustig's is Fat Chance and from that I understood that there is something unique about the way fructose is metabolized that causes NAFLD, so I personally do think it something of a scourge. I'm not aware of any similar known effect from other sugars, though that doesn't mean anything! I think I read somewhere that sugar alcohols or at least some of them pass straight through unmetabolised and that's the reason for their unpleasant after effects, least said about that the better!Let us turn Lustig on his head a bit. What his research demonstrated was that there is an association between fructose and fatty liver. For years nutritionists have been claiming that fructose does not produce a glucose response, and had not effects on the body. It was not absorbed and passed straight through, so was deemed to be safe for diabetics to consume in vast quantities.
What Lustig demonstrated was that in fact fructose is not metabolised like other carbs, but does go straight to the liver where it is stored as lipid fat and eventually becoming a possible cause of NAFLD and Insulin resistant pancreas. So for a T2D, fructose has become a serious no-no and a food class to use only in moderation.
I pose the question so far unanswered, and that is if fructose is linked to NAFLD, then what about the other sugar forms such as maltose, dextrose, and even lactose that manufacturers add to sweeten low sugar products? Given that, then how about the sugar alcohols malitol, dextrol, sorbitol etc. Do they also bypass the metabolism inly to end up in the liver as well? Is this the scourge of modern man causing death by a thousand processed meals?
No need to worry as the lactose is mostly removed with the whey in the cheese making process. Hard cheeses like Cheddar only have a trace of lactose and can usually be eaten by those with lactose intolerance.God I hope your wrong about lactose though I couldn't imagine life without a bit of crusty vintage cheddar!
I thank you from the bottom of my heart Mr Pot, I heartily glad to learn this! Altogether now mmmmm cheese!No need to worry as the lactose is mostly removed with the whey in the cheese making process. Hard cheeses like Cheddar only have a trace of lactose and can usually be eaten by those with lactose intolerance.
Pretty much. To be more precise, my original question didn't include a reference to fat loss from the pancreas/liver - I only included that because you (as OP) had brought it up and I was willing to go along with the assumption that improvements in post-prandial glucose were likely to occur via that mechanism.You are asking if there are any individuals out there who have followed a LCHF diet without losing outer body fat but have been able to lose enough liver fat in order to reverse their diabetes to the point that they can consume a level of carbs that exceeds their LCHF levels without any adverse reaction i.e. a non-diabetic reaction. Is that right?
Well, Prof Taylor suggests that weight-loss by any means [presumably including LCHF] may result in diabetes 'reversal'. Also, I'm fairly sure that some people on this forum have reported that after weight-loss through LCHF they have had normal post-meal blood glucose on the occasions when they have strayed from low carb. Whether anyone with diabetes who follows LCHF for a period will then get normal post-prandial blood glucose after a non-low card meal is another matter. The study quoted by @Brunneria earlier in this thread was interesting as that did seem to be the case for some people with metabolic syndrome ( a risk factor for diabetes).Personally I would find it interesting to learn if anyone who had followed a LCHF diet, with or without outer body ft loss, had been able to reverse their diabetes to the point they could eat carbs that exceed their LCHF level without adverse reaction.
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