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Reversing Diabetes Online Summit

A summit run by a chiropractor featuring various "Drs" who seem to disagree about which of their own "patented" diet plans reverses diabetes and including a blogger who clearly states reversal is impossible???

My advice would be to go here and hear a lecture by the fantastic Prof Roy Taylor showing and explaining the true science behind diabetes reversal to the "Foundation of European Nurses in Diabetes" conference 2012

Eating Through The Myths: Food, Health and HappinessTaylor, Prof. R., Berlin, 28-Sep-12
http://www.fend-lectures.org/index.php?menu=view&id=94
 
trotskyite said:
My advice would be to go here and hear a lecture by the fantastic Prof Roy Taylor showing and explaining the true science behind diabetes reversal to the "Foundation of European Nurses in Diabetes" conference 2012

Eating Through The Myths: Food, Health and HappinessTaylor, Prof. R., Berlin, 28-Sep-12
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Is Roy Taylor fantastic? I need to watch the whole video, but his misinterpretation of the UKPDS data is one of the "crimes against low-carbing". If you read Jenny Ruhl's book he comes across as the villain who suggests that T2 Diabetes is progressive no matter what you do.
 
In a talk published by online resource Medscape in December 2003, diabetes expert Roy Taylor, MD, professor of medicine at Newcastle University in the United Kingdom, stated that even good blood glucose control doesn’t slow the progression of complications much. Dr. Taylor said that the United Kingdom Prospective Diabetes Study (UKPDS, a landmark 20-year study published in 1998) showed that “intensive therapy made a difference” in eye damage, “but not a staggering difference, [and]…abnormal nerve function continues to progress.” Intensive blood glucose control, furthermore, “does not seem to be able to stop kidney damage.”
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The UKPDS findings led Dr. Taylor and many others to conclude that ultimately, nothing can be done to stop the damage caused by Type 2 diabetes, so people who have it essentially got the message, “Do the best you can; we’ll help you with drugs, but you’ll go downhill anyway.”
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That's exactly the negative rubbish that pushes people up the NHS medication helter-skelter.

If I'd have listened to him when I was diagnosed, I'd probably be on insulin by now.
 
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borofergie said:
Is Roy Taylor fantastic? I need to watch the whole video, but his misinterpretation of the UKPDS data is one of the "crimes against low-carbing". If you read Jenny Ruhl's book he comes across as the villain who suggests that T2 Diabetes is progressive no matter what you do.
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I think what you say is totally correct and I agree with you. However I strongly suspect he (roy) would not agree with his own comments now. After all I think (from memory although I will read it again) that individuals who had true "reversal" or were following a v low carb regime would have nowhere near the higher Hba1c levels attained by most of the subjects classed with "good control" in this study. Good control of this kind I would also suggest does lead to progressive worsening of Hba1c as age etc stops you being as active and does not allow you to eat as many kcal/carbs as you did when younger?
 
trotskyite said:
I think what you say is totally correct and I agree with you. However I strongly suspect he (roy) would not agree with his own comments now. After all I think (from memory although I will read it again) that individuals who had true "reversal" or were following a v low carb regime would have nowhere near the higher Hba1c levels attained by most of the subjects classed with "good control" in this study. Good control of this kind I would also suggest does lead to progressive worsening of Hba1c as age etc stops you being as active and does not allow you to eat as many kcal/carbs as you did when younger?
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If that is the case Trots, then he truly is an admirable fella - it takes courage to admit that you were wrong. If only the rest of the establishment could do that, we'd have the whole diabetes thing licked.

The problem with UKPDS is that the "intensive control" that he talked about still resulted HbA1c of 7%, in other words it wasn't really intensive at all. It's not surprising that almost all of them suffered complications. I actually take UKPDS as an indication that, no-matter how much medication you take, you'll suffer complications if you eat a high carbohydrate diet.

Thanks for posting the video - I'm looking forward to watching it!
 
It was after all just a suggestion. It's not like people have to buy anything or buy into anything if they don't want to. At the end of the day, it's all just information and educating oneself. What is so dangerous about being told to eat real food - something all of the presenters seem to agree upon?

And who could blame anyone for being somewhat cynical about mainstream medicine these days? It's not like they have all the answers.
 
borofergie said:
If that is the case Trots, then he truly is an admirable fella - it takes courage to admit that you were wrong. If only the rest of the establishment could do that, we'd have the whole diabetes thing licked.

The problem with UKPDS is that the "intensive control" that he talked about still resulted HbA1c of 7%, in other words it wasn't really intensive at all. It's not surprising that almost all of them suffered complications. I actually take UKPDS as an indication that, no-matter how much medication you take, you'll suffer complications if you eat a high carbohydrate diet.

Thanks for posting the video - I'm looking forward to watching it!
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@borofergie I just realised when I watched the vid again Roy is actually quoting the UKPDS study and then goes on to show how you can avoid this "steady miserable rise in Hba1c" with the rest of his lecture. So I'd say he has seen the light if you pardon the slight pun.
 
Another video (but long) definitely worth watching. Canadian researcher Jason Fung on the subject of Insulin Toxicity and Reversing Type 2:

 
i would like to believe it could be reverse and one day the medical world acknowledge this .

medical is always progressing. even some medication are approved and then withdrawn later.

for years, many researches are funded by food and medical companies. it is with no surprise that most researches will be on their favour

roy made the statement while being a visiting lecturer to havard that even controlling hba1c will progressively bring you down.

his studies in newcastle is fund by a non profit group, focusing on non medical control of diabetes.
 
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mine said:
i would like to believe it could be reverse and one day the medical world acknowledge this .

medical is always progressing. even some medication are approved and then withdrawn later.

for years, many researches are funded by food and medical companies. it is with no surprise that most researches will be on their favour

roy made the statement while being a visiting lecturer to havard that even controlling hba1c will progressively bring you down.

his studies in newcastle is fund by a non profit group, focusing on non medical control of diabetes.
Click to expand...

The medical world does acknowledge this, as is expressed in the quotes and vid below from various experts in diabetes via a 5 minute google search.
My diabetes nurse tells me it is not reversible. My gp said it wasn't then came back from a conference in London and said it was. So what do you think now? Who do you believe?
If you want to understand how watch the video I posted above^^


Keith Frayn, Professor of Human Metabolism, University of Oxford, said:
“For many years, doctors have believed that Type 2 diabetes is a life-long condition: it can be treated, but not cured. In the last few years, that idea has been disproved.

"Prof Gerald H Tomkin of the Diabetes Institute of Ireland examines how he can now tell many of this patients that weight reduction and exercise may lead to the reversal of their diabetes through recovery of their beta cells."

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal.htm
Our work has shown that type 2 diabetes is not inevitably progressive and life-long. We have demonstrated that in people who have had type 2 diabetes for 4 years or less, major weight loss returns insulin secretion to normal.

It has been possible to work out the basic mechanisms which lead to type 2 diabetes. Too much fat within liver and pancreas prevents normal insulin action and prevents normal insulin secretion. Both defects are reversible by substantial weight loss.

A crucial point is that individuals have different levels of tolerance of fat within liver and pancreas. Only when a person has more fat than they can cope with does type 2 diabetes develop. In other words, once a person crosses their personal fat threshold, type 2 diabetes develops. Once they successfully lose weight and go below their personal fat threshold, diabetes will disappear.
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Jeffrey Pessin, Ph.D., explains what causes prediabetes and type 2 diabetes and how the body can sometimes be coaxed into reversing both. Dr. Pessin is director of the Diabetes Research Center at Albert Einstein College of Medicine
 
borofergie said:
That's exactly the negative rubbish that pushes people up the NHS medication helter-skelter.

If I'd have listened to him when I was diagnosed, I'd probably be on insulin by now.
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I don't like EXPERTS 'cos an EX is a has-been and a SPURT is a drip under pressure!! x
 
It's a bit like how long is a piece of string? Whether it's reversed or not only matters to me if it stops the progression, which is all I'm hoping for. I plan on eating LCHF for the rest of my life for that reason. I'm not looking for some miracle cure that's going to allow me to go back to shovelling heaps of overly-processed carbs down my throat - not now that I know how great I feel without that frankenfood. Why would I ever want to go back to the godawful way I felt at diagnosis?
 
Indy51 said:
It's a bit like how long is a piece of string? Whether it's reversed or not only matters to me if it stops the progression, which is all I'm hoping for. I plan on eating LCHF for the rest of my life for that reason. I'm not looking for some miracle cure that's going to allow me to go back to shovelling heaps of overly-processed carbs down my throat - not now that I know how great I feel without that frankenfood. Why would I ever want to go back to the godawful way I felt at diagnosis?
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That's correct there are no miracle cures even if you reverse it it will come back with long term overeating as there is a genetic fat storage component you can do nothing about at this time. However true reversal involves normalisation of insulin response/ glucose control and means you can then eat a "healthy" balanced diet including large amounts of carbs and progression is halted as long as you keep the weight off. Of course this is not an easy option but is a potential cure for those who can do this.
 
firstly, what is the definition for cure? cancer can be cure if you do not have the cancer cells anymore. so there should be no such thing as cure for high blood sugar, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol. the fact is that we must have these to survive.
 
I think all of this information needs to be presented to type 2 diabetics on diagnosis. Nothing like it was told to me when I was diagnosed Type 2 in 2012.

Seems to be too late for me now (as evidenced by continued high BG despite weight loss and recent experiments with fasting) - and probably too late when I was diagnosed as I'd had 2 previous prediabetic diagnoses before that when weight was gained, reversed when weight lost. I seem to have had varying degrees of metabolic syndrome for 20+ years.

I would urge any recently diagnosed person, especially those with prediabetic status, to follow one of the reversal protocols ASAP and to take the advice not to regain weight very seriously indeed.
 
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Indy51 said:
I think all of this information needs to be presented to type 2 diabetics on diagnosis. Nothing like it was told to me when I was diagnosed Type 2 in 2012.

Seems to be too late for me now (as evidenced by continued high BG despite weight loss and recent experiments with fasting) - and probably too late when I was diagnosed as I'd had 2 previous prediabetic diagnoses before that when weight was gained, reversed when weight lost. I seem to have had varying degrees of metabolic syndrome for 20+ years.

I would urge any recently diagnosed person, especially those with prediabetic status, to follow one of the reversal protocols ASAP and to take the advice not to regain weight very seriously indeed.
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i was diagnose at 2012 too. it was 10.7. i was given metformin 1000mg and diet to follow. in just 1 week , my fasting is 4.6 and medication was reduce to 500mg. then 3 month later 250mg. then i trial dropping it altogether in another 3 months. then i was monitored every 3 months with it standing at 4.4-4.7.

the late blood test showed that all are good and hba1c at 4.7 half a year after i drop medication. it was very tough in the beginning, your chl levl are better than mine as i have low hdl.
 
When I've (hopefully) finished my marathon in September and I'm hopefully a lot skinnier than today, I might try and add some "paleo" carbs (which basically means sweet potato) for a few weeks, to see if my insulin resistance has improved.

I'm with Indy on this: If I was cured tomorrow, I'd probably still stick with LCHF because fundamentally I think that it's the healthiest possible way of living your life. And most of the time I really enjoy it.
 
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