So what do people do to get their fibre requirement if they don' eat breakfast cereals?
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So now I know weetabix are out!
- Thread starter Angelic_Delight
- Start Date
Ronancastled
Well-Known Member
I hit 13.3 on a single bowl of Shreddies post remission.
5 months later I repeated the test & had a normal reaction.
I graphed them here
Resting those beta cells through low carb, losing weight & adding exercise can a great restorative effect.
You might not have to give up on the Weetabix forever, just put them to the side for now.
bulkbiker
BANNED
lucylocket61
Expert
I have crippling bowel issues if I dont have a certain amount of fibre. I have lots of green veg, salads, some carrots and swede too. I also eat home made (the slow way) bread made from stoneground organic flour. It works for me : )
Higher intakes of dietary fibre, especially from cereal fibre and wholegrains, are associated with a lower risk of heart and circulatory disease, type 2 diabetes and some cancers.
As a result, the official recommendation on the amount of fibre we should be eating has been increased. The recommendation comes from a 2015 report on carbohydrates and health by the Scientific Committee on Nutrition, which advises government bodies.
The current recommendation is that adults should eat 30g of fibre a day
https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/nutrition/fibre
Happy to help you out if you want to start a new thread, @Julia51 !
And @JoKalsbeek , tagging me works a lot better if you tag the right @Antje77 !
MrsA2
Expert
I use seeds, usually milled flaxseed as I prefer the taste and texture to chia seed. I mix 1-3 tablespoons with natural yoghurt and it thickens to a porridge type consistency. Add in few berries and you have taste and vitamins too
coby
Well-Known Member
Hi, I have discovered that I can eat a 'tiny' amount of no sugar muesli for breakfast as long as it's two tablespoons PLUS two heaped dessertspoons of mixed Chia and Pumpkin seeds, together with a few raspberries or blueberries and with Almond milk. I can also tolerate a heaped spoonful of porridge oats when the Chia/pumpkin seeds are added too. This gives me fibre. Other days I add the chia mix to Greek yogurt together with berries
lucylocket61
Expert
It seems I am not alone in needing fiber, of some sort, in my diet.
bulkbiker
BANNED
But the current recommendation is to eat starchy carbs with every meal.... that is also completely incorrect especially for those with T2 diabetes..
There are zero essential dietary carbohydrates and thus zero essential dietary fibre. That is biological reality.
lucylocket61
Expert
depends on how you are defining 'essential'
for me, fibre is essential for my whole health. Period.
I watched the video you linked and found it interesting. Particularly as the participants in the study had pretty severe digestive issues, all of them. So not representative of a range of the digestion of a population, There was no description of their previous diet or the cause of their unusually severe constipation/bleeding/anal tears, or how long it had been a problem, or what other interventions had been tried, or what medications they may be on.
It didnt say how long the experiment lasted. Or the type of fibre and amount people were eating during the experiment, in one group, or before the experiment as a whole group. The sex of the participants wasnt mentioned, or the ages. Hormones have a powerful affect on digestion, ask any woman what happens to her digestion over her monthly cycle and during menopause - there can be big fluctuations in transit, hardness and size over that time and cycle.
I am truly happy you have a way of eating which works for you, but we are all different. For some of us, including me, fibre is essential for overall health. There is more to food intake than nutrition.
JoKalsbeek
Expert
Oh dear... I really do need reading glasses...!
Mbaker
Well-Known Member
I play the numbers by eating some berries, low carb vegetables, seed crackers and adding psyllium husk to my psmf bread. Almost every bit of dietary advice we have been given has questionable evidence (always check the methods, wash out periods, population used and relative risks). Paul Mason has referenced a trial that clearly shows fibre for digestive transit is a joke. Sometimes common sense does not translate to science, but does it make sense to bulk the stole, which fibre does and try to push this through a small hole. In terms of the microbiome, we are no where near understanding what is healthy for the individual.
Mbaker
Well-Known Member
Always like your contributions. The second reaction is so much better, and might be acceptable to some. The second looks like circa an 8.2, with a range of around 3. Some say a rise of 2 is borderline post prandial (at least one low carb Doc, whose name escapes me says 1.6, which is what I agree with). Micro vascular damage is said to happen around 7.8. I had a hissy fit after testing an apple out of my garden with a 6.2 post prandial, a 7 would see a meltdown for me. Many would say 6.2 is nothing, but normal for me is circa 5.7. It does not mean that getting the higher numbers is failure, as there are variables as to how for each of us will push and what our physical constitution will allow.I hit 13.3 on a single bowl of Shreddies post remission.
5 months later I repeated the test & had a normal reaction.
I graphed them here
Resting those beta cells through low carb, losing weight & adding exercise can a great restorative effect.
You might not have to give up on the Weetabix forever, just put them to the side for now.
I would say credit to you, as clearly you have toppled insulin resistance, with astonishing results. I could not be satisfied on a bowl of shreddies e.g. this morning I had essentially a dinner for breakfast with a 5.5 maximum (the bread is egg whites psmf):
So for me it is about how close to edge is it worth going for grain based alteratives.
I find it hard work making the 30g daily recommended fibre intake, but now shall try flaxseeds again. My memory of them is that they taste a bit fishy
https://www.med.umich.edu/mott/pdf/mott-fiber-chart.pdf
I had been putting a spoonful of dessicated coconut into my daily porridge for extra fibre, but shall stop when the packet runs out as I find it is full of saturated fat. Since T2s have a higher proportion of their LDL in the form of the bad sort, I think we have to be more careful than normoglycaemics to keep our LDL down
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Ronancastled
Well-Known Member
Identifying the edge is such a grey area.
That's where I find the recent CGM studies on non-diabetics enlightening.
The combined profile of 57 Stanford Students easting a single bowl of cornflakes is a particular hoot.
Now where I wouldn't want to be any of those 5 or 6 who clearly spike above 200(11.1) you can see there is a large cohort that clearly exceed 140(7.8).
Add that info to the 2019 trial where 153 healthy non-diabetics wore a Dexcom, they found that the group spent 30 mins per day >(140)7.8.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...ine-normal-glucose-the-results-are-in.182221/
All this has led me to believe that short spikes >7.8 are normal & don't raise your hazard ratio of complications higher than the general public once you come back down swiftly.
Mbaker
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, this site seems to agree the 7.8 is the cut off:Identifying the edge is such a grey area.
That's where I find the recent CGM studies on non-diabetics enlightening.
The combined profile of 57 Stanford Students easting a single bowl of cornflakes is a particular hoot.
Now where I wouldn't want to be any of those 5 or 6 who clearly spike above 200(11.1) you can see there is a large cohort that clearly exceed 140(7.8).
Add that info to the 2019 trial where 153 healthy non-diabetics wore a Dexcom, they found that the group spent 30 mins per day >(140)7.8.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...ine-normal-glucose-the-results-are-in.182221/
All this has led me to believe that short spikes >7.8 are normal & don't raise your hazard ratio of complications higher than the general public once you come back down swiftly.
The
I know greater than 7.8 is technically "Postprandial Hyperglycaemia" in the medical literature. I would agree that it is "normal" to spike past 7.8 for many, but I would define normal now as abnormal. We have to mainly rely on American stats, but the average fasting insulin is 8.5, with adult Americans (I would suggest a useful proxy for the rest of the SAD eating nations) being at 50% for either Pre-Diabetes or Diabetes, this has moved the goal posts for normal. The 50% does not include Kraft's definition of Diabetes in situ, which I believe is correct.
Using other proxies such as the rise in gestational diabetes (which we know impacts the outcomes for the fetus)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2043158/ for me shows again the normal is changing.
There seems to be consensus that 7.8 is a cut off. I do see some references to 180 mg/dl for diabetics (10), but this has to be crazy for those that are in more danger.
Two-Hour Postprandial Glucose - Health Encyclopedia - University of Rochester Medical Center
Postprandial Blood Glucose | Diabetes Care (diabetesjournals.org)
Postprandial hyperglycemia and postprandial hypertriglyceridemia in type 2 diabetes (nih.gov)
We will have to agree to disagree that spiking into 8 plus is ok for health.
bulkbiker
BANNED
Not sure that either of those points is correct.
The LDL number in the UK is usually calculated and not measured and rarely if ever is it split into LDL sub-types.
And as many of us are now "normoglycemics" it's a moot point anyway?
Mbaker
Well-Known Member
Double hmm for me. I have coconut flakes almost everyday. The saturated fat "issue" has got to the point where the science is not cutting through. None of us want to die early so personal research is key. I think Diet Doctor have earned a position as a good resource:
I think a historical and what you can see and touch right now evidence base is important. I would cross reference the below:
- In the "Meat and 2 Veg" days, were people healthier (thinner, less Type 2 diabetes, hypertensive, cancers)
- What are the health outcomes for known high saturated fats societies (Inuit, Maasai, Tokelauans)
- How does the highest meat eating populations (Hong was, at least within the last 2 years) become the longest living populous on high saturated fat
lucylocket61
Expert
I wonder how much pollution, of all types, including artificial fertilizers and the like, has to do with the health issues we have seen rise since the 19590's. Maybe it's not only dietary changes which are causing metabolic and other issues.
