Some Info On The Freestyle Libre If Anyone Knows

I tend to put mine on a good 23-24 hours before activating it -I think many find it works better like that, gives your arm time to recover from being stabbed by the sensor applicator

simonr1 said:

Hi there, I'm type 2 but use the Libre as it helps me keep control on my diabetes. I've just posted the following as a question on the Freestyle Libre website, but I was just wondering if anyone here knows the answer.

"Hi, I am using the freestyle libre and love it. But when I change my next sensor I would need to do this at work. Well as a teacher it's not really something that would be easy to do. Time wise it would be impossible. So What I would like to know is how long after I have applied the sensor can I leave it till I activate it? What I mean is that my current sensor is due to end on Wednesday next week at 8am. Can I apply the new sensor to my arm at say 5am and then activate when the sensor when the current one runs out?"

So is there anyone who know answer this???

Cheers

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You can indeed. And then readings would be available from 9am on your timeline, after the warm up.

I always put mine on the night before the old one expires.

Yes, like many others, I apply the new one around 24 hrs before the current one finishes.

Like you, @simonr1 I use Libre to help me. It helps my motivation lots

I go by at least 24 hours. If I remember, that is. I have done 48 hours or so by mistake, worked fine as well.

Antje77 said:

I go by at least 24 hours. If I remember, that is. I have done 48 hours or so by mistake, worked fine as well.

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Think my record is five days on that - a sensor was misbehaving so I put another on and then it started reading accurately so I left it and didn’t activate the new one until the first expired. It worked fine but did need a bit of rock tape after a few days.

simonr1 said:

I'm not going to reply to this because it makes me angry as we all know that the battery could last a lot longer, I'm in the process of taking one apart and testing the battery. We also know that they are making millions from them but I should end mine early, SERIOUSLY?????? I would love to know what they cost to produce. I'm sure that there is the technology about today where you could simply implant a sensor under a local and have an external battery pack you could change using the same near field tech to read it.

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There's always going to be a difference between what works and what is medically approved. xDrip, Spike etc are examples of this. Abbot aren't allowed to be anything but 100% careful about what they say, and we shouldn't denigrate them for doing so - but that doesn't stop others from trying the limits and working out how to make things better.

Re cost - I'd go for the base cost being about a fiver. The rest isn't all profit though - the aforementioned approvals bits will amount for a fair amount more for example, and that's on top of the required sales infrastructure.

Re implantable sensor - it does exist, but if you think Libre is expensive, probably best to not look at the price

simonr1 said:

I'm sure that there is the technology about today where you could simply implant a sensor under a local and have an external battery pack you could change using the same near field tech to read it.

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There is indeed, it's called Eversense from Senseonics:

https://www.accu-chek.co.uk/implantable-cgm/eversense-xl

It's ridiculously expensive, between about £30 to £50 per day depending on whether it's the 90 or 180 day version: see post #4 on this thread:

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/cgm-options.155812/#post-1869495

DCUKMod said:

It is bound to have been several millions, then of course achieving medical approval

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Google "Abbott Therasense", there's dozens of articles which are quite illuminating on how we got to here with libre.

It seems Abbott was involved in the bg meter business but it's products were a bit meh.

Meanwhile, an innovative but relatively small company called Therasense was making a few inroads with it's Freestyle range, which used much smaller samples than others, and it was also punting its Freestyle Navigator cgm. But it was small and didn't have the multinational reach which Abbott did.

Sooo, Therasense had the better products and Abbott had the clout, so back in 2004, A bought T for a cool $1.2 billion.

I don't know where exactly libre fits into that picture, but I suspect that for the big bucks, Abbott not only got the conventional Freestyle meters but also the nascent technology for what was to become libre.

Abbott had earlier acquired, in 1996, Medisense, which was doing one of the early cgms. Don't know how much that cost them or the part it played in libre.

Here's the RNS for the acquisition, it mentions the Freestyle Navigator cgm

https://www.investegate.co.uk/abbott-laboratories/rns/abt-to-acquire-therasense/200401131234301667U/

evilclive said:

Re cost - I'd go for the base cost being about a fiver.

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Perhaps so for the plastic bits and the circuit board etc. but I wonder about the sensor filament - pretty sure those can't be bought from Maplins!

There's a lot of research gone into filaments in any cgm. The materials can be quite exotic. Quite apart from the research costs, it would be interesting to know the details of the manufacturing process: whether they just roll off an (already expensive but generally automated) machine, or whether specific batches need a bit more personal attention for the factory calibration.

I was reckoning the sensor filament would be a significant proportion of the fiver - the rest is _really_ simple. One standard TI chip does pretty much all the electronics. Battery, PCB, some passive components, some plastic - if they've got their manufacturing sorted that won't add up to that much. I did forget the packaging and applicator - maybe another quid for that.

Yes, obviously a lot of the money goes towards the R+D. I'm still hoping they'll scale production up and prices will drop - that way the R+D still gets paid for.

simonr1 said:

we all know that the battery could last a lot longer

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As the others say, ignore Abbott official advice, apply a while before activating, typically 12, 24 hrs.

Historical factoid:

Libre was licensed and sold in Europe long before it was in the USA. Many on this side of the pond figured out the hour startup gave dodgy results on the first day, and it doesn't take much googling to find papers reviewing cgm systems which all say the same thing: inserting a sensor will cause local micro-trauma which will be met by repair mechanisms and foreign body responses, all if which chew up glucose before it can be measured, so a bit of settling in time is justified to let all that calm down a bit, or we'll get sketchy first day results.

So, it turned out that early users in Europe figured out to just apply it and leave for a while to let it settle before activating.

That view was kinda acknowledged as being correct when it was launched in the USA. Abbott wanted it to be approved for bolusing decisions. Their FDA said, aye, ok, will do, but only if you build in a warm-up period of 12 hours after activation before they can read it. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that the FDA felt that 12 hrs was needed to let it settle.

Evilclive is right. Abbott's got to play by the rules for where it's been licensed. Actual users don't - we can bend them if we want to.

Does anyone actually know for certain if our US friends only get 10 days out of a Libre sensor?

Or has this website https://diatribe.org/freestyle-libre-now-available-major-us-pharmacies seriously messed up?

Scott-C said:

Perhaps so for the plastic bits and the circuit board etc. but I wonder about the sensor filament - pretty sure those can't be bought from Maplins!

There's a lot of research gone into filaments in any cgm. The materials can be quite exotic. Quite apart from the research costs, it would be interesting to know the details of the manufacturing process: whether they just roll off an (already expensive but generally automated) machine, or whether specific batches need a bit more personal attention for the factory calibration.

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I'm pretty sure not much can be bought from Maplin these days! (Or did they 'move online' like Woolies?)

Colin of Kent said:

I'm pretty sure not much can be bought from Maplin these days! (Or did they 'move online' like Woolies?)

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Lol, fair point!