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Some Info On The Freestyle Libre If Anyone Knows

Discussion in 'Type 1 Diabetes' started by simonr1, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. simonr1

    simonr1 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Hi there, I'm type 2 but use the Libre as it helps me keep control on my diabetes. I've just posted the following as a question on the Freestyle Libre website, but I was just wondering if anyone here knows the answer.

    "Hi, I am using the freestyle libre and love it. But when I change my next sensor I would need to do this at work. Well as a teacher it's not really something that would be easy to do. Time wise it would be impossible. So What I would like to know is how long after I have applied the sensor can I leave it till I activate it? What I mean is that my current sensor is due to end on Wednesday next week at 8am. Can I apply the new sensor to my arm at say 5am and then activate when the sensor when the current one runs out?"

    So is there anyone who know answer this???

    Cheers
     
  2. Rokaab

    Rokaab Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I tend to put mine on a good 23-24 hours before activating it -I think many find it works better like that, gives your arm time to recover from being stabbed by the sensor applicator :)
     
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  3. Draco16

    Draco16 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    You can indeed. And then readings would be available from 9am on your timeline, after the warm up.
     
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  4. LooperCat

    LooperCat Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I always put mine on the night before the old one expires.
     
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  5. Energize

    Energize Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, like many others, I apply the new one around 24 hrs before the current one finishes. :)

    Like you, @simonr1 I use Libre to help me. It helps my motivation lots ;)
     
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  6. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    I go by at least 24 hours. If I remember, that is. I have done 48 hours or so by mistake, worked fine as well.
     
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  7. LooperCat

    LooperCat Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Think my record is five days on that - a sensor was misbehaving so I put another on and then it started reading accurately so I left it and didn’t activate the new one until the first expired. It worked fine but did need a bit of rock tape after a few days.
     
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  8. simonr1

    simonr1 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. They are a great help.
     
  9. simonr1

    simonr1 Type 2 · Active Member

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    So I got a reply from Abbott.

    "Thank you for contacting Abbott Diabetes Care and your support of our product.

    We are sorry to inform you that we do not support activating a new sensor a few hours after application. As per the information in the user's manual, sensor should be activated immediately after application.

    In this case we would suggest removing the previous sensor a few hours early and activating a new sensor withing an hour of application.

    If you require any further assistance, please feel free to contact our Customer Careline Team on 0800 1701177* or again by email on ADCHelpUK@abbott.com.

    Yours sincerely,"

    I'm not going to reply to this because it makes me angry as we all know that the battery could last a lot longer, I'm in the process of taking one apart and testing the battery. We also know that they are making millions from them but I should end mine early, SERIOUSLY?????? I would love to know what they cost to produce. I'm sure that there is the technology about today where you could simply implant a sensor under a local and have an external battery pack you could change using the same near field tech to read it.
     
  10. evilclive

    evilclive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    There's always going to be a difference between what works and what is medically approved. xDrip, Spike etc are examples of this. Abbot aren't allowed to be anything but 100% careful about what they say, and we shouldn't denigrate them for doing so - but that doesn't stop others from trying the limits and working out how to make things better.

    Re cost - I'd go for the base cost being about a fiver. The rest isn't all profit though - the aforementioned approvals bits will amount for a fair amount more for example, and that's on top of the required sales infrastructure.

    Re implantable sensor - it does exist, but if you think Libre is expensive, probably best to not look at the price :)
     
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  11. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Staff Member Administrator

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    I would think one of the biggest recoverables for Abbott will be the research and developments of the product. It is bound to have been several millions, then of course achieving medical approval. I'd actually be curious to know their full time to true profit for the Libre.
     
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  12. Scott-C

    Scott-C Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    There is indeed, it's called Eversense from Senseonics:

    https://www.accu-chek.co.uk/implantable-cgm/eversense-xl

    It's ridiculously expensive, between about £30 to £50 per day depending on whether it's the 90 or 180 day version: see post #4 on this thread:

    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/cgm-options.155812/#post-1869495
     
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  13. Scott-C

    Scott-C Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Google "Abbott Therasense", there's dozens of articles which are quite illuminating on how we got to here with libre.

    It seems Abbott was involved in the bg meter business but it's products were a bit meh.

    Meanwhile, an innovative but relatively small company called Therasense was making a few inroads with it's Freestyle range, which used much smaller samples than others, and it was also punting its Freestyle Navigator cgm. But it was small and didn't have the multinational reach which Abbott did.

    Sooo, Therasense had the better products and Abbott had the clout, so back in 2004, A bought T for a cool $1.2 billion.

    I don't know where exactly libre fits into that picture, but I suspect that for the big bucks, Abbott not only got the conventional Freestyle meters but also the nascent technology for what was to become libre.

    Abbott had earlier acquired, in 1996, Medisense, which was doing one of the early cgms. Don't know how much that cost them or the part it played in libre.

    Here's the RNS for the acquisition, it mentions the Freestyle Navigator cgm

    https://www.investegate.co.uk/abbott-laboratories/rns/abt-to-acquire-therasense/200401131234301667U/
     
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  14. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks Scott - I was tempted to go with billions, but it looked a bit melodramatic really, when compared with £50 per sensor.
     
  15. Scott-C

    Scott-C Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps so for the plastic bits and the circuit board etc. but I wonder about the sensor filament - pretty sure those can't be bought from Maplins!

    There's a lot of research gone into filaments in any cgm. The materials can be quite exotic. Quite apart from the research costs, it would be interesting to know the details of the manufacturing process: whether they just roll off an (already expensive but generally automated) machine, or whether specific batches need a bit more personal attention for the factory calibration.
     
  16. evilclive

    evilclive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I was reckoning the sensor filament would be a significant proportion of the fiver - the rest is _really_ simple. One standard TI chip does pretty much all the electronics. Battery, PCB, some passive components, some plastic - if they've got their manufacturing sorted that won't add up to that much. I did forget the packaging and applicator - maybe another quid for that.

    Yes, obviously a lot of the money goes towards the R+D. I'm still hoping they'll scale production up and prices will drop - that way the R+D still gets paid for.
     
  17. Scott-C

    Scott-C Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    As the others say, ignore Abbott official advice, apply a while before activating, typically 12, 24 hrs.

    Historical factoid:

    Libre was licensed and sold in Europe long before it was in the USA. Many on this side of the pond figured out the hour startup gave dodgy results on the first day, and it doesn't take much googling to find papers reviewing cgm systems which all say the same thing: inserting a sensor will cause local micro-trauma which will be met by repair mechanisms and foreign body responses, all if which chew up glucose before it can be measured, so a bit of settling in time is justified to let all that calm down a bit, or we'll get sketchy first day results.

    So, it turned out that early users in Europe figured out to just apply it and leave for a while to let it settle before activating.

    That view was kinda acknowledged as being correct when it was launched in the USA. Abbott wanted it to be approved for bolusing decisions. Their FDA said, aye, ok, will do, but only if you build in a warm-up period of 12 hours after activation before they can read it. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that the FDA felt that 12 hrs was needed to let it settle.

    Evilclive is right. Abbott's got to play by the rules for where it's been licensed. Actual users don't - we can bend them if we want to.
     
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  18. urbanracer

    urbanracer Type 1 · Moderator
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  19. Colin of Kent

    Colin of Kent Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure not much can be bought from Maplin these days! (Or did they 'move online' like Woolies?)
     
  20. Scott-C

    Scott-C Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Lol, fair point!
     
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