Something MUST be done!!!!

Doctors risk being fired if they tell a T2 to low carb because their contract says they must adhere to NHS policy. Neither Dr John Briffa nor Dr Charles Clark are NHS doctors, they have private practices.

Low carb is accepted as a treatment for epilepsy in children in the US and Great Ormond Street Hospital conducted a successful study. In New Zealand it is used to treat patients with Crohn's disease and has been studied in the US and proven to be a successful treatment for non-fatty liver disease. So low carb is being used around the world as a treatment for small populations of patients with ill health.

The biggest population with ill health which low carb would benefit in the UK would be people with diabetes. But because we can be treated with drugs we're not seen as anything other than normal obese people. Obesity is a symptom of T2 and not everyone has it. It's not the chronic disease.

Diabetes UK is funded by at least one cereal manufacturer so the charity has to be biased. It isn't acting in the interests of people with diabetes when fundraisers hand out Krispy Kreme donuts. It doesn't promulgate alternatives to the NHS despite all the studies.

Before oral meds T2s were treated by diet and if that didn't work, insulin. Oral meds were seen as a breakthrough to give people with diabetes a normal life like anyone else. BG meters were also supposed to be a breakthrough and do away with peeing on sticks.

People with diabetes most often see nurses who do seem to me to have the attitude that T2 is self-inflicted. I am constantly stunned at how badly people in the NHS have treated me. It really makes me angry.

Now that I'm size 16 and still losing and have normal BG the HCPs are all pleased. But the reality is that though my GP is supportive it's me who put the hard work in, not him. That I need fewer drugs is only because I low carb.

I am seeing a change in attitude because of my size. I was asked this morning during a blood test: "Are you a Type1 ?" But that discrimination just shouldn't happen.

Re: The Obesity and Self-Blaming.

I became overweight because i was pre-diabetic, then type 2. I have been told this by both my nurse and my doctor. It is a symptom, not a cause.

If it was the cause then all those people we see on TV who are super-sized would be diabetic. Most of them arent.

I was actually eating less before I was diagnosed, but gaining weight very quickly and tired all the time. Since diagnosis I have been eating more (more calories, I mean) , but different foods (fewer carbs, more protein and fats) and I have lost 27 lbs so far (12 weeks) and have loads more energy.

So, for me, I wish we could move on from blaming the obese for their condition. My neighbour down the road is stick thin and type 2 .

In fact, I wish we would stop blaming the patients at all. If, as is happening, they are being told to eat more carbs, then getting fatter and sicker is not their fault.

And diabetes is a sort of malnutrition. Your body grabs all the carbs and stores them before they can be used. So you crave carbs and are tired so dont exercise. Its a vicious circle. Like having your wages put into a savings account you can get hold of, then having no money to buy anything you need.

Then getting blamed for not paying your bills.

lucylocket61 said:

And thats what this thread is about. Making someone aware of the risks, and informing them of how to reduce their risk.

Not downplaying or ignoring the risk and giving advice which will make the diabetes worse.

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Agree, this is not about T2's bringing diabetes on themselves or any other such ****. It's about finding a way to get the reduced carb approach and eat to your meter mantra recognised as a sensible way for diabetics particularly T2's who rely mainly on diet to stay safe and keep as good control and ultimately be as healthy as possible.

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lucylocket61 said:

Re: The Obesity and Self-Blaming.

I became overweight because i was pre-diabetic, then type 2. I have been told this by both my nurse and my doctor. It is a symptom, not a cause.

If it was the cause then all those people we see on TV who are super-sized would be diabetic. Most of them arent.

I was actually eating less before I was diagnosed, but gaining weight very quickly and tired all the time. Since diagnosis I have been eating more (more calories, I mean) , but different foods (fewer carbs, more protein and fats) and I have lost 27 lbs so far (12 weeks) and have loads more energy.

So, for me, I wish we could move on from blaming the obese for their condition. My neighbour down the road is stick thin and type 2 .

In fact, I wish we would stop blaming the patients at all. If, as is happening, they are being told to eat more carbs, then getting fatter and sicker is not their fault.

And diabetes is a sort of malnutrition. Your body grabs all the carbs and stores them before they can be used. So you crave carbs and are tired so dont exercise. Its a vicious circle. Like having your wages put into a savings account you can get hold of, then having no money to buy anything you need.

Then getting blamed for not paying your bills.

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Lucy, you and I were very alike when we came here, uneducated in diabetes, and ignorant of how to help ourselves. We very soon became educated, and now are doing exceptionally well. I am sure those who post here about T2's in ignorance and lack of education will soon learn the real cause behind T2. We know it is not brought on by ourselves, allow people who are bigots due to lack of education learn, then they may realise the truth, even if they feel they can't acknowledge it. (((Lucy))).

Sid Bonkers said:

So what part of the advice I was given was incorrect?

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At this point Sid

Sid Bonkers said:

At that meeting after inspecting my food diary she told me that "low carb was the way to go".

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I don't disagree with anything in the way you did things Sid your portion control with GI method works just as well a my carb counting or Stephens VLC. We know it works as as meters say it does. I would still be a bit pedantic and point out that portion control really is just carb counting in disguise (or visa versa) and that the GI bit is for a T2 a really useful tool for anyone to learn and use in the context of an overall carb reduction method but thats just my opinion.

So its not that I claim your current advice is incorrect but I still claim in the context of the current (and recent past) UK dietary guidelines what your dietician said when she said "low carb was the way to go" to you is not what the majority of them say and more importantly not what the are trained in. So in the context of the NHS or the DUK overall stated position her advise was wrong. It's for this very reason to get all dieticians saying that same "low carb was the way to go" I think you should support this "Something has to change" or "Eat to your meter" or whatever it finally gets called campaign.

Further Sid and I know you'll disagree but when your dietician said "low carb was the way to go" then implicitly she really meant LCHF was the way to go and that "Sweden" is the way to go and that "America" is the way to go. To me that's what, with admittedly varying shades of low carb, all of this means.

Hi All.
Can I just chip in here ?
Am 'NOT' defending or sticking up for the HCP's but they HAVE to be heard and seen
to advise and operate within the medical and clinically approved guidelines...
NOT to do this could result in their suspension or loss of their jobs.
Any persons here ever hear a HCP say now 'off the record' I blah blah blah blah .
I know that I ' have' , as it's the ONLY route to safely voice their own true opinion !
To remain neutral is their safest option or keep safe on the approved medical and clinical guidelines
that they are trained up with .
Anna.

anna29 said:

To remain neutral is their safest option or keep safe on the approved medical and clinical guidelines
that they are trained up with .
Anna.

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That's a pretty sad situation isn't it? Whatever happened to the Hippocratic Oath:
"I will apply dietic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice."

We seem to have traded "ability and judgment" with "medical and clinical guidelines".

borofergie said:

anna29 said:

To remain neutral is their safest option or keep safe on the approved medical and clinical guidelines
that they are trained up with .
Anna.

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That's a pretty sad situation isn't it? Whatever happened to the Hippocratic Oath:
"I will apply dietic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice."

We seem to have traded "ability and judgment" with "medical and clinical guidelines".

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Sadly my experience says that is true. My GP at diagnosis gave me the standard T2 pack, but in his defense offered no dietary advice. When I went back to the clinic, he asked me how I did it, as I was SO much better, even in that short space of time. I said by ULC. He then told me, he did agree with this approach, and as I mentioned before was seeking funding to do a study into ULC and LC (not hopeful of the funding). He told me directly, that patients like me, who do low carb, always have the better control, and simply by it's nature, better health. It was also suggested, that people like me who fight their diabetes are offered so much more support (hence the meter and strips). However, he can't suggest a LC or ULC to patients, we have to find that out ourselves. I found that so sad!

Quick apology to anyone taking offense at my earlier post. I will quickly point out that I did not state, in any way shape or form, that ALL T2 diabetes is self-inflicted and would never do so.

The correlation to obesity is well known and I passionately believe that this country is slowly killing itself through poor lifestyle choices and that each and every child, being easy targets at school, should be educated from an early age. As adults we should know better and take better care of ourselves before a HCP tells us to. This is not restricted to diabetes of course so is perhaps for another forum.

However, he can't suggest a LC or ULC to patients, we have to find that out ourselves. I found that so sad!

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Sad...SAD????

Its criminal, thats what it is!!!!

its the equivalent of being forced to recommend eating frozen chicken without thawing it first. Or playing with rusty nails but denying someone a tetanus vaccine.

I wonder how many of those 24,000 avoidable deaths due to diabetic complications the policy makers of the NHS will be charged for?

The correlation to obesity is well known

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I believe the correlation is the wrong way round. And this is a belief which must be corrected as part of the education of the public and HCP's

Obesity does not cause Diabetes.

Obesity is a symptom of the onset of Diabetes in those who are pre-disposed to it. The current dietary advice to the general public to have a high carb intake is triggering that pre-disposition.

otherwise all, or at least most, of the obese would have Diabetes.

And they dont.

Scardoc said:

Quick apology to anyone taking offense at my earlier post. I will quickly point out that I did not state, in any way shape or form, that ALL T2 diabetes is self-inflicted and would never do so.

The correlation to obesity is well known and I passionately believe that this country is slowly killing itself through poor lifestyle choices and that each and every child, being easy targets at school, should be educated from an early age. As adults we should know better and take better care of ourselves before a HCP tells us to. This is not restricted to diabetes of course so is perhaps for another forum.

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Nearly Scardoc :lol: No I take your apology that's fine. I don't disagree that "this country is slowly killing itself through poor lifestyle choices". All I am pointing out is many people make the life style choices they are told to do and still get screwed. It's not just this country but most including China, India and increasingly even Africa that are seeing these rises in obesity and diabetes. The UN did a special conference late last year and has recommended governments take a far more interventionist approach. Now to me interventionist is not just education or as our gov seems to think a blanket prescription of statins but it means they should actively intervene over things like fast food, advertising and taxation etc. However there is no chance of ever getting such "nanny state" things ever implemented in this country I fear.

The slightly changed guidelines from the NHS are probably only echoing those of the American Diabetes Association which has endorsed low carb for short term weight-loss purposes.

How many of us will admit to liking being low carb heretics ?

lucylocket61 said:

Obesity is a symptom of the onset of Diabetes in those who are pre-disposed to it. The current dietary advice to the general public to have a high carb intake is triggering that pre-disposition.

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:thumbup:

Altogether now: " Correlation does not imply causation".

We seem to have traded "ability and judgment" with "medical and clinical guidelines".[/quote]
I know how it translates and feels for us all...
I so well - remember my diabetes foot specialist saying to me repeatedly -
As I was begging him to give a certain combination of neuropathic pain drugs .
I cant do what you wish me to as I feel so uncomfortable with having to leave the guidelines to do it...
This is how and when I realised there is little room or options for [them] HCP's to manouver .
Anna.

Artichoke said:

The slightly changed guidelines from the NHS are probably only echoing those of the American Diabetes Association which has endorsed low carb for short term weight-loss purposes.

How many of us will admit to liking being low carb heretics ?

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Nope you're wrong there. The ADA makes a specific 130g / day RDA for carbs in both its 2011 and 2012 position statements and points out the primary importance of carbohydrate intake on glycemic control. However you are right that the UK references the ADA document all over the place even adopting a similar statement about the primary importance of carbohydrate intake on glycemic control however it fails miserably to attach that 130g RDA value to its statement so its pretty meaningless.

Artichoke said:

The slightly changed guidelines from the NHS are probably only echoing those of the American Diabetes Association which has endorsed low carb for short term weight-loss purposes.

How many of us will admit to liking being low carb heretics ?

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Please can you give a link to "The slightly changed guidelines from the NHS." ??

phoenix said:

Unbeliever:

I should very much lie to read he full ext of the excellent NAO 's report. The detail migh acually nit have been as suitable for their purposes as tthe headline.

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Bedtime reading:
http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/1213 ... vices.aspx
and DUKS report
http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Documents/Re ... n-2012.pdf

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Missed this until now Phoenix. Thank you!

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