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- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Diet only
Why is it illogical to claim that some people may have had the side effect equivalent to the placebo effect?
Doug
That is not what i said.
Why is it illogical to claim that some people may have had the side effect equivalent to the placebo effect?
Doug
This is what you said:That is not what i said.
This is what you said:
""Equally, some people do not know that the symptoms they experience are due to a drug they have been taking for months or years. Especially if the symptoms develop slowly over time.
With statins, the well documented contraindications include muscle aches, raised blood glucose and increased risk of diabetes.
Anyone who started statins prior to developing diabetes may have developed diabetes as a result of the statins. Or not. But it is illogical to claim that they couldn't have done, or that their condition may be psychosomatic.
Doug
Perhaps we should stop all research and rely on polls here instead?
Where did I say that their condition may be psychosomatic? You paraphrased me and I brought it back to my original point.Exactly.
Your paraphrasing of my comment implied i said something else.
I certainly respect your decision with regard to your usage of statins. I have said all along that it is a choice that people must make. That "A DCUK poll would tell me more about this than ANY other resource." is where you and I differ but thanks to you and all the participants on this thread for a lively discussion on what is an important topic - the prolonging of life.Who said that? You know full well i did not. ASCOT is NOT the only "resource" out there and I am not criticising research (money thrown at or on) the subject whether it be by the Anglo-Scandinavian Cardiac Outcomes Trial or any other group or any other opinion. Never have and never will. You'd agree there are many sites that speak for and against statins, would you not?
So much conflicting information out there that it's be unwise to place your faith in the first site you come across, be it ASCOT or anywhere else. The poll we have represents over 200 opinions and that is enough for me. I made up my mind 12 months ago regarding this drug. Please respect that decision as much as I respect yours
Where did I say that their condition may be psychosomatic? You paraphrased me and I brought it back to my original point.
Doug
I had an immediate lowering of my cholesterol on beginning treatment and on a recent but different piece of clinical research, involving cardiac MRIs and artery ultrasounds, I was found to have no deposits in my heart and all my arteries had no thickening. Another important point - I am not dead and I have not had a stroke!
Doug
@DavidGrahamJones There is no doubt that statins have side effects from day one for some folks and other people have no problems with taking them. The problem with polls is that it is often the people who have been unfortunate to have had side effects or those who have googled and think that because there might be side effects then there will be side effects. The power of the mind is such that some people will experience side effects because they believe that they will have them. I have not come across a drug that has no side effects at all. I was a patient in the ASCOT trial that looked at statins and mortality outcomes. That arm of the study was closed earlier than the blood pressure arm as there was overwhelming evidence of decreased mortality.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18175773
Doug
Where did I say that their condition may be psychosomatic?
Doug
People do sometimes get the symptoms they expect. I tried to avoid the term psychosomatic as the placebo effect for side effects seemed to be better terminology. Similarly, if people feel better by taking dummy pills, the term psychosomatic is not used. That harsh terminology was brought in by B.To be fair..?! (Highlighted in blue.) You did infer...
A little disappointing & unempathic regarding undermining those with differing experiences of side effects from statins from yourself. Or even those just wishing to make an informed impartial choice.. (Like me!?)
I'm just trying to keep an open mind on this topic..
At randomisation for the trial, my cholesterol and BP were raised and I, unknowingly, had diabetes. My diabetes was diagnosed by the study Professor (FBG 12.00). I was put on atorvastatin, ramipril and amlodipine and followed my usual diet minus sweets cakes and other obvious sources of sugar.This sounds great.
Just to clarify. You were diagnosed with the issues you mentioned in the response to me above. Prior to the statin trial in 98?
Where there no other diatary or lifestyle changes than the use of statins..?
@Oldvatr - there is some followup here:
http://www.oxfordjournals.org/our_journals/eurheartj/ehr333final_esc_congress.pdf
@DavidGrahamJones The problem with polls is that it is often the people who have been unfortunate to have had side effects or those who have googled and think that because there might be side effects then there will be side effects.
Thank you B for bringing this up to our attention. I have a session with my GP in a weeks time, during which I will be informing him that I have stopped taking all the statins I am prescribed for, and do not wish to try any other ones. I will try to remember to ask him about YellowCard and see if I can get his support. He did do a yellowcard when I had my strokes and had to come off Avandia / Actos.May be a good time to menton that people can submit their own drug contraindication report via this uk government website.
https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
Their doctor should do it, but due to time pressure, or lack of motivation, I think it often gets forgotten.
It would be great if more people (or their GPs) would use the yellow card system. I am pleased that you are having a discussion with your GP soon. As I understand it, people with diabetes are at risk of strokes and those who have already had them are more at risk again. Perhaps you need to be referred for consultant care to reduce your risks.Thank you B for bringing this up to our attention. I have a session with my GP in a weeks time, during which I will be informing him that I have stopped taking all the statins I am prescribed for, and do not wish to try any other ones. I will try to remember to ask him about YellowCard and see if I can get his support. He did do a yellowcard when I had my strokes and had to come off Avandia / Actos.