Sugar not the enemy?

[Al44]

Type 2 diabetic for 12 years, have recently been unwell and lost 10% of my weight, GP & diabetes nurse suggested I stop Metformin (and Lisinopril for high blood pressure) and self-check my progress.
Now not taken Metformin or Lisinopril for a month:
Blood pressure hasn't changed, typically 130/80
Blood glucose readings haven't changed, Fasting still between 6 and 7, 2 hour Post-Prandial between 7 and 9.
Bread, potato, pasta, rice, cake, all of which I LOVE are evil; indulgence pushes the 2 hour PP to perhaps 11, so I avoid them as much as I can - no brainer!
BUT if I breakfast on just a coffee with (full-fat) milk and 2 grams of sugar, my 2 hour post-prandial reading goes down:
If Fasting BG was 6.0, 2 hour PP falls typically to 5.5;
If Fasting BG was 7, PP falls typically to 6.5
We are all different and respond differently, but this is decidedly odd; I've asked about it before but nothing seemed to explain it.

Can anybody suggest what might be going on?

 

[Muneeb]

Not sure what the question is, but is it why does you glucose levels drop after having some sugar in your coffee? Being type 2 your body is still able to regulate you levels to a certain extent, so will secrete insulin when levels begin to get too high, bringing the levels back down to within range (it can do this much more effectively when the dosage of sugar is low). Pasta, rice etc is all relatively high carb (which is all turned to sugar). One slice of bread is ~10g of carbs (sugar) so would naturally have a much higher effect on levels than 2g of sugar. How quickly it increases levels and drops it what will differ.

 

[Guzzler]

As this happens in the morning it may have its roots in Dawn Phenomena. Perhaps that little sugar is enough to curb the liver dump? Would not be a tool I would use.

 

[Al44]

Not sure what the question is, but is it why does you glucose levels drop after having some sugar in your coffee? Being type 2 your body is still able to regulate you levels to a certain extent, so will secrete insulin when levels begin to get too high, bringing the levels back down to within range (it can do this much more effectively when the dosage of sugar is low). Pasta, rice etc is all relatively high carb (which is all turned to sugar). One slice of bread is ~10g of carbs (sugar) so would naturally have a much higher effect on levels than 2g of sugar. How quickly it increases levels and drops it what will differ.

Thank you Muneeb,why does my glucose level drop after having some sugar in your coffee was my question, your reply does indeed offer an explanation, although I find it odd that consuming any sugar lowers the blood glucose, and I'd wondered if my liver was "dumping" stored glucose back into the blood stream as part of the dawn effect and consuming a little sugar was enough to stop the liver doing that.

 

[Al44]

As this happens in the morning it may have its roots in Dawn Phenomena. Perhaps that little sugar is enough to curb the liver dump? Would not be a tool I would use.

Thank you Guzzler, what you say seems very likely. I do worry about using this "tool" because sugar seems implicated not only in respect of diabetes but also cancer.

 

[JohnEGreen]

The liver is sensitive to insulin produced by pancreas when the level of insulin production rises in response to your carb intake that is 2 grams of refined sugar your liver responds by stopping release of sugar into your blood so your over all blood sugar level would be plus what you had ingested minus what the liver had been releasing of it's stored glucose and also minus what the insulin had managed to push into cells against any insulin resistance present.

Maybe.

 

[Al44]

The liver is sensitive to insulin produced by pancreas when the level of insulin production rises in response to your carb intake that is 2 grams of refined sugar your liver responds by stopping release of sugar into your blood so your over all blood sugar level would be plus what you had ingested minus what the liver had been releasing of it's stored glucose and also minus what the insulin had managed to push into cells against any insulin resistance present.

Maybe.

Thank you John, makes sense.

 

[Resurgam]

I found that a no carb breakfast did not stop my BG levels rising. I have a small amount of carb about 10 gm and my two hour reading is a couple of whole numbers lower than for no carb.
It is probably for a similar reason, but difficult to say exactly what is going on.

 

[Al44]

I found that a no carb breakfast did not stop my BG levels rising. I have a small amount of carb about 10 gm and my two hour reading is a couple of whole numbers lower than for no carb.
It is probably for a similar reason, but difficult to say exactly what is going on.

Resurgam, that's most interesting, thank you. From time to time I do intermittent fasting, my blood glucose edges upwards between awaking & eating (breaking my fast) 4 or 5 hours later. Also did a 3-day fast, blood glucose never went below 6.0 and tended to rise around 0.5 between awaking and midday.

 

[ianf0ster]

I found that a no carb breakfast did not stop my BG levels rising. I have a small amount of carb about 10 gm and my two hour reading is a couple of whole numbers lower than for no carb.
It is probably for a similar reason, but difficult to say exactly what is going on.

Hi,
That just goes to show that we are all different.
I find that a zero carb breakfast - 2 large boiled Eggs drizzled with Olive Oil , Salt and Pepper always either reduces my fasting BG level or else leaves it exactly the same.
If in addition to breakfast I also take a brisk 35 min walk before the post-prandial 2hr test, then invariably the BG is lower that the fasting level.

 

[catinahat]

Your body has to work to get at the sugars in pasta, bread, rice, but sugar is already sugar so no work involved.
A spoonful is around 5gm of carbs so I would think the 10gm you're having in the coffee would hit your blood pretty quickly, and the resulting rise has come and gone before your 2 hour test. You could try doing a series of tests say every 15-20 min after your coffee to get a true picture.

 

[Member496333]

2g of sucrose (sugar) is only 1g of glucose. Not especially surprising. Then there's the milk, of course, but there's also the fat. All of this combined may potentially have an effect on arresting any dawn phenomenon.

In the many, many experiments I performed on myself over the years, sucrose was never public enemy number one with regard to short term blood glucose spikes. Flour (grains) was my kryptonite, as I suspect it is in the majority with impaired glucose tolerance. Of course the 1g of fructose in the sucrose may have an immeasurable but incremental impact on insulin resistance in the liver, so I wouldn't recommend getting too comfortable with the ole' white stuff in any meaningful quantity. When it comes to sugar, the meter does lie - it literally only tells 50% of the story.

 

[Rachox]

I agree with all the theories put forward so far but it does leave me wondering, have you tried having coffee without any sugar, with full fat milk or even cream? I have a low carb high fat breakfast and my post b’fast reading is often lower than beforehand.

 

[Caprock94]

Portions. I can eat a bite or two of cake, candy bar, etc. and not see much or any rise. Eat a whole slice, or whole candy bar....different story.

 

[Al44]

I agree with all the theories put forward so far but it does leave me wondering, have you tried having coffee without any sugar, with full fat milk or even cream? I have a low carb high fat breakfast and my post b’fast reading is often lower than beforehand.

I have tried coffee without any sugar, with full fat milk & even cream; after 2 hours my blood glucose tends to be slightly worse than coffee with full-fat milk and 2gm sugar, which I have often. Regrettably, it tastes much worse. But maybe as Cat says, I should try doing a series of tests say every 15-20 min after my

picture

 

[Al44]

Your body has to work to get at the sugars in pasta, bread, rice, but sugar is already sugar so no work involved.
A spoonful is around 5gm of carbs so I would think the 10gm you're having in the coffee would hit your blood pretty quickly, and the resulting rise has come and gone before your 2 hour test. You could try doing a series of tests say every 15-20 min after your coffee to get a true picture.

Cat, testing every 15-20 minutes is a good idea and might well give a truer picture!

 

[Robbity]

This is what sugar does to me! 2 hours test would completely miss it.

(from Libre sensor log with hourly intervals)

Robbity

 

[Al44]

Robbity, that's informative and alarming!
It also suggests one might have a good HBA1C with some very unwelcome spikes.
I'm using only half a teaspoon of sugar, hopefully for a less extreme spike, but will test every 15 or 20 minutes as suggested above.

 

[Jaylee]

Hi,

Sugar (granulated.) can sort of work like the cocaine of the carb world.?

Your meter may take a "snapshot" in time of your BG between 15/20 minutes ago? (Prior to the point of testing.) Pending on blood flow/location of blood drawn from...
For instance. I can have a low, test & treat. Take another test 10/15 later (even though I've taken carbs onboard.) & not budge with the reading or even read lower? It's easy to panic & eat more than I need to fix... But it's just how the meter gauges BG with regards to the bodies metabolism..

You could be less insulin resistant in the mornings? The bread, pasta & wot not you avoid, will be longer lasting carbs metabolised. Hence the effects registered gauging with the meter on a two hour test after consumption?

 

[Alexandra100]

I find that a zero carb breakfast - 2 large boiled Eggs drizzled with Olive Oil , Salt and Pepper always either reduces my fasting BG level or else leaves it exactly the same.

Eggs are not zero carb. Each large egg yolk contains c. 0.6g carbs. Some people here find that a coffee with cream is enough to arrest this kind of fasting bg rise, so maybe 2 eggs suffice to do it for you. On the other hand, as you say, we are all different and maybe your breakfast eggs are irrelevant to your morning bg.