The Hidden Killer. Type 2 Diabetes.

[hankjam]

Panorama are now in trouble for a highly dubious 'documentary' on Downs Syndrome. A lot of parents and people with downs syndrome are tweeting about its inaccuracy.

I missed this was a Panorama production, there's nothing on their web site about it. Sally Phillips fronted it, so I assumed it was a personal examination of the issues.

 

[hankjam]

Really good program IMHO , but where did they get their info on Type 1's i.e. 'they were born with it'. I certainly wasn't :-0

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006t14n
From their site....
Diabetes: The Hidden Killer - Clarification
In this programmeType One Diabetes was referred to as “the sort you’re born with”. We acknowledge that this is not a medically accurate description. Although Type One Diabetes commonly develops in childhood, often to genetically predisposed individuals, it can develop at any age. It results from immune mediated injury to the pancreas and it is not known exactly what triggers this.

 

[delacey68]

I'm living with type 2 and managing my blood sugars with low carb high fat diet. I also take Metformin and a Statin, both of which I want to come off ultimately. I've been a gym goer and weight trainer on and off for years and the lchf lifestyle is contributing to me turning back into a bodybuilder! I'm watching the fat melt away and people are commenting that I'm looking great . ( I always had a good muscle build but the fat was hiding it).
This Panorama programme highlighted an issue that Doctors are trained to provide medicine and surgery rather than look at the cause, which is mostly diet. It's on in the background as I type and I've jut seen yet another amputation. People who don't know the alternatives must be terrified watching this.
Something that has really helped me is I listen to a podcast regularly by a chap called Vinnie Tortorich. You can find it on iTunes and it's free. He's an American trainer and athlete and he advocates NSNG ( no sugars, no grains ). Over the last year I've listened to all 4 podcasts he does a week ( while walking my dog) and he's changed my way of thinking, and my lifestyle. He is a bit of a "shock jock " and some things he says make me blush! But his advise is sound and heartfelt. If it's for you, have a listen. The more you listen to the advice to give up sugar and carbs, and eat more green veg and protein/fat, the more the message sinks in. There are loads of previous episodes to download as well.
Now, how to tell my doctor, who himself is type 2 and has had a quintuple heart bypass in the past because of diabetes, that the old way of thinking is being challenged and proved wrong, and persuade him that I want to re-examine my meds and come off them? Doctors are paid to diagnose a problem and provide the drug to treat that problem. Not to look at other factors like diet, and if they do look at diet it's to advocate low calorie and whole grain carb diets. Shocking!

 

[Wurst]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006t14n
From their site....
Diabetes: The Hidden Killer - Clarification
In this programmeType One Diabetes was referred to as “the sort you’re born with”. We acknowledge that this is not a medically accurate description. Although Type One Diabetes commonly develops in childhood, often to genetically predisposed individuals, it can develop at any age. It results from immune mediated injury to the pancreas and it is not known exactly what triggers this.

Nice to see they acknowledge their mistakes.

 

[serenity648]

I missed this was a Panorama production, there's nothing on their web site about it. Sally Phillips fronted it, so I assumed it was a personal examination of the issues.

You are right, I misread - mea culpa x

 

[Daibell]

I've got the opposite problem, my diabetic nurse called me twice within two weeks and gave me contradictory advice. I started on the low carb diet following the advice of the diabetic nurse and started exercising and lost 2lbs in two weeks. When the same diabetic nurse rang a week later she told me not to lose to much weight.!

I wouldn't be guided by the nurse ref losing too much weight as many of them seem to be obese and don't seem to realise it!

 

[beanie_4]

How sad that the NHS is still promoting porrige for breakfast and an apple for lunch (as in the video clip above) while waiting for wieght loss surgery for a diabetic. This chap has to prove he can virtually starve himself in order to have the surgery. Oh why can't NHS come to see that LCHF would be a much more likely way for being able to stick to a weight loss diet and not then needing the surgery.

The chap in the video claims he's tried everything but what's the betting he hasn't tried LCHF.

I've never been able to diet by counting calories, low fat but I've done amazingly well on LCHF, without counting anything, and feeling so much better on this.

I do hope the NHS will wake up to this before too long and get it across to people who need it. (I appreciate it doesn't work for everyone though)

I watched this the night before a consultation. On weightloss surgery which I was not sure of until I seen this not everyone can go on lchf has I not long ago had a heart attack so I can't eat much fat I have seen what diabetes. Has done first hand to my late father. Who had his legs took away. I thought it was a very interesting. Show for people to have I insight into diabetes.

 

[RCot]

Banish the Beige
I didn't want to start a fresh thread for this, but any Mods who disagree - feel free to move this.

For anyone who wants to find the Jamie Owens programme, Fat v Carbs, that was shown on Tuesday on BBC Wales here is the way ; Catchup TV > BBC iPlayer > Popular > Fat v Carbs (3/10 8.30pm BBC Wales.)

Although there was an attempt to "balance" the claims for LCHF, by interviewing staunch NHS-brainwashed types, they didn't have much conviction and were reliant on the "everybody knows fat makes you fat" line. It was nice to see glimpses of the National Obesity Forum statement from earlier this year and to see real results from (*SPOILER ALERT*)
the presenter and a guest. Three weeks was honestly not long enough to to burn off his visceral fat and we didn't see that much exercising but the results were encouraging and the doctor's face at the end was a picture.

When you first said you were downloading it and hoped it may be an antidote to The Hidden Killer, I resisted replying and spoiling your viewing! It felt to me like it had been made quite a few years ago and that no-one (apart from the one doctor I referred to in my first post) had really undertaken any serious research in to the latest trials underway.

Some of the comments from the medical profession were flippant and condescending. Three weeks was certainly an inadequate amount of time to make the changes required. Who decided that? I brought my Type 2 BS level down to normal levels in just 10 weeks through diet alone. To be fair, my GP has supported me with monthly blood tests but it was my idea and she showed a similar surprise as the Doctor in the documentary and did not fully share my excitement at the achievement. Too much workload to notice?

 

[Johngi55]

did you read the rest of her post? it was clear that the hug is for all this man has suffered by incorrect and dangerous NHS advice, and a lack of mental health support as well as dietary support.

the NEXT sentence is about helping him in a way that works.

Lets have some compassion. Do we talk of our ancestors who died through medical practices that killed them as deserving it and being weak willed for not doing the things THEY DIDNT KNOW would help them?

Dont think so.

The NHS didn't tell him to take his kids chocolates, or to eat 4 weetbix topped with Frosties, I save my compassion for those that make an effort.

 

[MikeTurin]

The majority of T2s in this country are told to go and eat carbs, the tablets will take care of 'it', and not to test their own blood glucose.

I don't know if that also happens with NHS, but what happened to me, and that by the way makes me really angry, is that I was diagnosed with metabolic syndrome, and simply put on statines and got a general advice to make more physical activity, and try do lose weight. No information both from the specialist on how to diet or the risks do develop a full blown type 2 diabetes.

Most of the information I've got on my diabetes came from reading books and following forums on internet. I've got some dietary advice after the diabetes diagnosis from a SSN dietician. Due to budget cuts If I'd like a diet advice from a SSN dietician I've to pay 30 € for the visit. I've had also a couple informative encounters with a diabetes nurse, but overall I feel on my own with my diabetes.
If someone (that should be my GP, or the SSN specialist that visited me and diagnosed the metabolic syndrome) told me that I was at risk of diabetes and I should really change my lifestyle because of this, I'd surely followed the advice.

Having said that, I think that feeling and being alone to manage the diabetes is a daunting task, having other peope throwing flippant comment doesn't help.

As your post shows, a diagnosis of T2 doesn't come with an automatic dose of compassion for others in worse circumstances.
Mores the pity.

And this behaviour doesn't help people that have problems. It make no sense to eat chocolate for an overweight guy that is going to bariatric surgery for sure, but simply badmouthing and don't try to understand why someone has self destructing behaviours make a lot less more sense to me.

 

[Robinredbreast]

The NHS didn't tell him to take his kids chocolates, or to eat 4 weetbix topped with Frosties, I save my compassion for those that make an effort.

I didn't see all of the programme, but the guy you mentioned didn't appear to care for himself, also the teenage boy of 15 who knew he shouldn't be eating sweets and his bs was 18 at the diabetes clinic, quite shocking
the programme was about the cost to the NHS because of the amount of people being diagnosed with type 2 (an epidemic) and young children too, which was unheard of a decade ago, so sad The gastric band surgeon said now the majority of his patients undergoing this procedure are type 2, I don't know if they are having the procedure because they were obese to start with before being diagnosed or after diagnosis? I am sure we all have cravings, I know I do, I would love to eat a big curry with rice, but I don't or a Crunchie bar, I don't because they will spike me and I would also put on weight with the larger amounts of Insulin.
We all need determination, guts and will power to overcome things like smoking, alcohol, gambling, foods etc, but it can be done, some may take longer and need more support.

 

[AndBreathe]

I didn't see all of the programme, but the guy you mentioned didn't appear to care for himself, also the teenage boy of 15 who knew he shouldn't be eating sweets and his bs was 18 at the diabetes clinic, quite shocking
the programme was about the cost to the NHS because of the amount of people being diagnosed with type 2 (an epidemic) and young children too, which was unheard of a decade ago, so sad The gastric band surgeon said now the majority of his patients undergoing this procedure are type 2, I don't know if they are having the procedure because they were obese to start with before being diagnosed or after diagnosis? I am sure we all have cravings, I know I do, I would love to eat a big curry with rice, but I don't or a Crunchie bar, I don't because they will spike me and I would also put on weight with the larger amounts of Insulin.
We all need determination, guts and will power to overcome things like smoking, alcohol, gambling, foods etc, but it can be done, some may take longer and need more support.

Robin, whilst I agree with you that we all need self-control to a greater or lesser extent, I do feel it is important to recognise that for some people over-eating, binging or disordered eating are little to do with lack of will, and more than most cases of anorexia are just about not fancying eating or loss of apetite.

Of course not everyone carrying weight has an eating disorder. I'm not suggesting that for an instant. I am just acknowledging that things aren't always as straightforward as they look.

 

[Robinredbreast]

Robin, whilst I agree with you that we all need self-control to a greater or lesser extent, I do feel it is important to recognise that for some people over-eating, binging or disordered eating are little to do with lack of will, and more than most cases of anorexia are just about not fancying eating or loss of apetite.

Of course not everyone carrying weight has an eating disorder. I'm not suggesting that for an instant. I am just acknowledging that things aren't always as straightforward as they look.

I know, thank you Andbreath,
my quote :- We all need determination, guts and will power to overcome things like smoking, alcohol, gambling, foods etc, but it can be done, some may take longer and need more support.

 

[Humma]

Your non judgmental, supportive, tolerance is not shining through.
Your answer is typical of the stereotyping of Type2 diabetes by the media.
Do you have any sympathy for Type2's who have been told to eat a high carb diet by HCPs or who have steroid induced Type2?
There are often psychological problems involved with people who have issues with foods.
There are also a variety of medications, necessary for some members that have raised their blood sugars, resulting in a diagnosis of Type2.
I am at a loss to understand what you have gained by your offensive post.

I am 62 years old and have been diabetic for 50 years and every day i keep it under control i weight train 5 days a week and mountain and road cycle around 80 miles a week i trian my abbs for 30 minutes 6 evenings a week but the best thing is i have no complications at all absolutely at all that is me in the photo aged 61 and i look better than most of the yong lads in the gym.this post is not offensive but is exactly what these diabetics are letting themselfs in for.

 

[serenity648]

I am 62 years old and have been diabetic for 50 years and every day i keep it under control i weight train 5 days a week and mountain and road cycle around 80 miles a week i trian my abbs for 30 minutes 6 evenings a week but the best thing is i have no complications at all absolutely at all that is me in the photo aged 61 and i look better than most of the yong lads in the gym.this post is not offensive but is exactly what these diabetics are letting themselfs in for. View attachment 20616

I am happy that that is what you have been able to do. But do you both recognise and have empathy for those who cannot, for many reasons, do what you have done?

 

[AndBreathe]

I am 62 years old and have been diabetic for 50 years and every day i keep it under control i weight train 5 days a week and mountain and road cycle around 80 miles a week i trian my abbs for 30 minutes 6 evenings a week but the best thing is i have no complications at all absolutely at all that is me in the photo aged 61 and i look better than most of the yong lads in the gym.this post is not offensive but is exactly what these diabetics are letting themselfs in for. View attachment 20616

Whilst I applaud your dedication to the body beautiful, there are many, many reasons others would not be able to invest so much time into themselves. How many parents of young children would be able to find the time you do to do as you do, in between caring for their children, being Mum/Dad's taxi, looking after their home, and probably holding down a full-time job. Obviously that assumes that such an imaginary person would be physically able or even suited to your form of regime.

Not everyone wants to be gym bunny. I don't. I'm active and I'm able, but weight lifting or gym work has never been for me.

I got lucky with my Diabetes. My body seemed well able to respond to the efforts I made and I thank my lucky stars for that every day, but the bottom line is that I have no idea how long I'll be that lucky. Nobody knows what lies ahead of them. I really do hope you never have the misfortune to be rendered unable to train as you do. In those circumstances you may discover some extra and unwanted challenges in your life.

Sadly, not everything is under own own control or achievable by the application of our will.

 

[serenity648]

In most, if not all, support groups, there is unconditional support. People do not go to Al Anon or Weightwatchers and be berated, criticised, and torn down by people who want to make sure they know they are to blame for their problem.and are beneath contempt. Such behaviour is actively harmful to some on here, and may well put off others

Is there a section of this forum where it is safe those who want to be met where they are now, regardless of their journey? and who will be supported and not torn into by those with no understanding, or willingness to understand, the huge issues some of us face? A place where one can post without it being an invitation for someone to be negative, and knock us back? A bit of the forum where those who may have conquered huge mountains in their personal lives, be it mental health, physical health, family issues, or a combination of these thing, can post, and they will be helped without being shot down in flames?

We are already surrounded, outside of this forum, by those who point fingers and blame us.

I suppose I am looking for a safe haven on here for those of us who have daily battles with various issues, and need encouragement from our peers, and seek to encourage others in a supportive way, with protection from those who cannot, or will not understand the daily drag through life that some have even to survive.

Looking at some of the issues some have on this forum, they deserve a huge great big medal for trying, and persevering, in the face of almost impossible challenges, not more of the treatment we get from some HCP's and all the others in the media etc.

 

[equipoise]

I am 62 years old and have been diabetic for 50 years and every day i keep it under control i weight train 5 days a week and mountain and road cycle around 80 miles a week i trian my abbs for 30 minutes 6 evenings a week but the best thing is i have no complications at all absolutely at all that is me in the photo aged 61 and i look better than most of the yong lads in the gym.this post is not offensive but is exactly what these diabetics are letting themselfs in for. View attachment 20616

Good for you. Now you just need to put in some strenuous hours building up your compassion and empathy muscles as well. You might find that harder than cycling but it will be worth it in the end.

 

[hornplayer]

Good for you. Now you just need to put in some strenuous hours building up your compassion and empathy muscles as well. You might find that harder than cycling but it will be worth it in the end.

I agree. ..... Does anyone know where the "like" button vanished to?

 

[chalup]

maybe message admin. I have a like button.