The Hidden Killer. Type 2 Diabetes.

[DavidGrahamJones]

I've been type 2 for about a year and this is terrifying.

Welcome to the forum. You'll be pleased to know that not everyone with type II diabetes ends up with bits being amputated. The program seemed to emphasise type II rather than BG control. The guy eating 4 weetabix for breakfast and pasta for lunch was heading for trouble. You will notice that most members on this forum look carefully at their carbs and reduce the amount depending on how their body reacts. We are all different and can tolerate varying amounts, but Low Carb is the very best way to go.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

. . . . it's probably the six week diet on 800 calories (aka the Newcastle diet) that stops the condition in its tracks, and the bariatric surgery prevents patients from eating anything, including carbs, afterwards.

The Newcastle Diet seems to be very effective for recently diagnosed type IIs, not so much for old codgers like me. The interesting thing about bariatric surgery is that the bypass seems to reverse type II whereas the gastric band is not so successful. The band also has issues with it having to be re-tightened at some point and long term not always being 100% successful.

 

[hankjam]

I don't have the numbers, but from a certain perspective I would say the programme was bang on. Those of on this forum, who have taken active steps to learn about BD and do something about it, are probably in the minority of T2's.
Birmingham, 1in 10 are T2!! The people they represented in the programme really don't have any idea what they are dealing with. Some of the responses to double digit BGs were chilling. It is going to cost the NHS a bucket load of cash.
I bet Diabetes UK would be pretty underwhelmed how they were represented in the programme.
The lack of content on prevention / management sums up pretty well the current official position.... carry on with your "Eat well plate".

 

[kay2409]

I was quite annoyed when they mentioned Type 1 diabetes and that it's a condition you're born with! I was diagnosed just before I turned 19. I know that the programme focuses on Type 2 but this is the sort of information 'normal' non-diabetic will remember.

 

[tim2000s]

Seems the medical fraternity see bariatric surgery as the way forward. Probably true as low carbing takes a lot of discipline.

Sadly, so does bariatric surgery. The only way for it to work is if those who are given it totally change their lifestyle (Sound familiar?) so I dont' see why a wholly diet approach wouldn't do the same thing.

 

[AndBreathe]

I don't have the numbers, but from a certain perspective I would say the programme was bang on. Those of on this forum, who have taken active steps to learn about BD and do something about it, are probably in the minority of T2's.
Birmingham, 1in 10 are T2!! The people they represented in the programme really don't have any idea what they are dealing with. Some of the responses to double digit BGs were chilling. It is going to cost the NHS a bucket load of cash.
I bet Diabetes UK would be pretty underwhelmed how they were represented in the programme.
The lack of content on prevention / management sums up pretty well the current official position.... carry on with your "Eat well plate".

Hankjam, there was a slightly frisky discussion about this programme on the DUK forum last night. During the course of it, I tagged their forum Admin and asked if he know of any comment or response by DUK to the programme as it aired. I'll be interested to read that, in due course.

 

[Robinredbreast]

The programme was mainly about the consequences of poor control and the cost, but I didn't see all of the programme, my eye's wouldn't let me. From what I did see and hear, diabetes is costing the NHS 10 % of it's budget. The patients I saw with type 2 were scoffing themselves into an early grave, the guy who ate 4 Weetabix for breakfast and then Frosties, constantly eating chocolate, the, the young lad of 15 who has type 2, not always testing, bs of 18 when he was in the clinic, eating the wrong foods and both were overweight, Birmingham has the highest rate of type 2. The surgeon who performed bariatric surgery said most of his patients actually had type 2. It's the children who really pull at my heart strings, it is unbelievable in this day and age that this epidemic is happening,
On the whole our society has a lot to answer for, everything is on tap, too little exercise, convenience foods at the click of a button, if something doesn't work there is a fix for it. Over the decades, we have become a much lazier society and diabetes will keep spiralling out of control if something isn't done to try and prevent and educate, the government must step in.
An educational programme with patients who have good control with type 2 diabetes, or who have turned their lives around, would be so beneficial.

 

[azure]

I was quite annoyed when they mentioned Type 1 diabetes and that it's a condition you're born with! I was diagnosed just before I turned 19. I know that the programme focuses on Type 2 but this is the sort of information 'normal' non-diabetic will remember.

Yes, that was gobsmacking. Completely wrong.

Complain to the BBC. They usually respond well to complaints about the portrayal of Type 1 in dramas, so I'd hope they'd take giving utterly false 'facts' about Type 1 in a flagship documentary equally seriously.

Merging this thread with the older one where this is being discussed already.

 

[AtkinsMo]

Nobody mentions all the risks of bariatric surgery, lifelong problems with absorption of nutrients, malabsorption, malnutrition. Bariatric surgery was the quick fix solution for obesity in the States (for those with the right insurance) - and now the Atkins / Low Carb forums are full of people that have had the surgery and still can't maintain weight loss and have a host of other problems too.

A low carb diet, if you completely make the switch, is not hard to maintain in the long term, it rapidly becomes the new 'normal' diet for you, if you allow it to. But whilst people are getting such mixed or opposing messages from their health professionals, those who don't have the wherewithal, the time, the energy, the resourcefulness to research the alternatives are doomed to fail.

They say that the LCHF diet is not proven long term, but what is proven is that the current guidelines have led to this outcome! I had to turn it off in the end- I just wanted to scream and shout at the TV! Panorama has lost the plot! Much better was the Fat v Carbs on BBC Wales, but that wheeled out the standard mantra - diet dangerous long term etc etc.

 

[AndBreathe]

Sadly, so does bariatric surgery. The only way for it to work is if those who are given it totally change their lifestyle (Sound familiar?) so I dont' see why a wholly diet approach wouldn't do the same thing.

Interestingly enough, I had lunch at the weekend with a young(er than me) woman who wrestles with her weight, and has done for some time. She was relating to me that she is using a hypnotherapy app/podcast where the messaging is to visualise a gastsic band/sleeve is in place, with a view to effectively eating less and trimming off a bit of weight.

Thus far, she has lost something like 10kg, in 3 or 4 weeks, and is delighted. I will be fascinated to observe her progress, and I do hope it helps her achieve her objectives. I don't believe she is diabetic or pre-diabetic, and it would be intrusive of me to ask.

In so many things, including Change, the belief it's possible is key. We all need a bit of a crutch sometimes, and this one seems pretty harmless to me.

 

[AndBreathe]

The programme was mainly about the consequences of poor control and the cost, but I didn't see all of the programme, my eye's wouldn't let me. From what I did see and hear, diabetes is costing the NHS 10 % of it's budget. The patients I saw with type 2 were scoffing themselves into an early grave, the guy who ate 4 Weetabix for breakfast and then Frosties, constantly eating chocolate, the, the young lad of 15 who has type 2, not always testing, bs of 18 when he was in the clinic, eating the wrong foods and both were overweight, Birmingham has the highest rate of type 2. The surgeon who performed bariatric surgery said most of his patients actually had type 2. It's the children who really pull at my heart strings, it is unbelievable in this day and age that this epidemic is happening,
On the whole our society has a lot to answer for, everything is on tap, too little exercise, convenience foods at the click of a button, if something doesn't work there is a fix for it. Over the decades, we have become a much lazier society and diabetes will keep spiralling out of control if something isn't done to try and prevent and educate, the government must step in.
An educational programme with patients who have good control with type 2 diabetes, or who have turned their lives around, would be so beneficial.

Whilst I couldn't challenge that 10% of the Birmingham population has Diabetes, I would probably want to throw into the mix that Birmingham is also a significantly and wonderfully multi-cultural society, with meaningfully large South Asian and Afro-Caribbean populations; all of whom are known to have a higher than usual genetic predisposition to develop diabetes. Obviously, that's not the whole story either, but it is worth noting.

I happen to live relatively (under 25 miles) from one of the two NIHR units in UK, which happens to site on-site with a large Diabetes Centre. At a recent DUK meeting, we had a presentation from one of the coordinators from the NIHR who, as well as describing their work, was recruiting for various trials (not all Diabetes related by any means), being run by the centre. Even though we also have a culturally very diverse population, most of whom fall into the ethnically higher risk populations, they have problems recruiting enough participants to their trials, from those populations - even when some of them are paid.

It's such a multi-layered problem, but in the background there does appear to be a bit of a ground swell developing for Change.

 

[Pinkorchid]

I don't think they needed to be so graphic on the amputation. However, It's hit home with this body, I hadn't strayed too far from the right track, but this has made me reflect on my behaviours. Thanks goodness I don't have a sweet seriously sweet tooth. It just those bloody magnums always between me and the petrol pump counter. Grrr!

Maybe some people need to see that before they will do anything about it. I really don't think a lot of people with T2 think it is serious they think they just have to take the tablets and they can carry on eating their junk food diet

 

[bulkbiker]

Maybe some people need to see that before they will do anything about it. I really don't think a lot of people with T2 think it is serious they think they just have to take the tablets and they can carry on eating their junk food diet

Which their doctor probably reinforces whilst writing out the prescription...

 

[Prem51]

In a way I did like the program in that it has raised the issue of diabetes as a huge problem for the population and the NHS both in medical and financial terms. I hope that people who have been diagnosed as pre-diabetic or T2, or those who recognise that they are at risk, will look into ways in which they can avoid this condition.
Unfortunately the program didn't offer any suggestions as to how that could be done. The message was that complications are inevitable. Except through bariatric surgery.
Very little was said about the effects of processed and junk food and sugary drinks. The Government has avoided taking on the food industry on this issue. Too much profit involved.

The only person who it was said had reduced his weight and got his blood sugars under control, the ex-cricketer, was still facing kidney failure and dialysis. I would like to have heard more about him. Are kidney problems inevitable even if we control our condition?

 

[AtkinsMo]

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/weight-loss-surgery/Pages/risks.aspx

Who would willingly go down that road, rather than demonstrate the motivation and commitment to make a dietary change that is both satisfying and enjoyable?

Risk of death 1/1000. Risk of embolism / pulmonary embolism, 1/100. A host of other complications and life long health conditions - who in the world would think this was the best alternative?

The world has gone mad!

 

[Brunneria]

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/weight-loss-surgery/Pages/risks.aspx

Who would willingly go down that road, rather than demonstrate the motivation and commitment to make a dietary change that is both satisfying and enjoyable?

Risk of death 1/1000. Risk of embolism / pulmonary embolism, 1/100. A host of other complications and life long health conditions - who in the world would think this was the best alternative?

The world has gone mad!

And when they do their little bean counting, and say that it saves the NHS money, because it 'cures' T2, do they factor in the long term risks and costs? Reactive hypoglycaemia, osteoporosis, malnutrition, corrective surgery for excess skin, digestive complications, counselling, depression...

 

[Pinkorchid]

I'm T1 and have pretty good control but I'll be honest that scared me. I know the consequences of poor control but actually seeing it happen made me shiver.

Perhap

Sadly, so does bariatric surgery. The only way for it to work is if those who are given it totally change their lifestyle (Sound familiar?) so I dont' see why a wholly diet approach wouldn't do the same thing.

If you have ever watched the bariatric surgeon Shaw Summers programmes about obesity you will see that for the very obese overeating is an addiction they can't stop it is as powerful for them as a smoking or drug addiction. They feel constantly hungry and never feel full up so their brain tells them to eat and having carby takeaways is the quick answer. Telling them to totally change their diet just does not work it does not cure their addiction for food and even if they do cut down the amount they eat they still don't loose weight and can even still gain it. For them bariatric surgery is the only answer but it is not easy for them as their brain is still telling them they are hungry but after surgery it is physically impossible for them to eat to much

 

[tim2000s]

after surgery it is physically impossible for them to eat to much

Except that it's not. After bariatric surgery, they are told what they can eat. Those who are morbidly obese still struggle to eat small amounts and there are a fair number who still overeat and eat the wrong things. It still requires a mindset change to not try and beat what your body is telling you.

 

[AtkinsMo]

Shifts the budget, result! Insanity!

 

[AtkinsMo]

According to Tim Noakes it's all down to the Appestat, the part of the brain that tells the body it's nutritional requirements are satisfied. Carbs 'knock it out'. Many many people can attest that a very low carb diet suppresses appetite automatically.