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The Newcastle Diet and reversing #Type2Diabetes. What you think?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by DanType2DiabetesFree, May 10, 2018.

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The Newcastle Diet and reversing #Type2Diabetes. What you think?

Poll closed May 17, 2018.
  1. Looks dangerous

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Looks amazing

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I don't believe it yet

    40.0%
  4. I have done it - it works

    60.0%
  5. I believe it but I am yet to do it

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. I have done it but it didn't work for me

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. DanType2DiabetesFree

    DanType2DiabetesFree Type 2 · Member

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    Yep I wouldn't have said I was massively overweight myself - so getting diagnosed was a shock - but apparently reading up on it - it's all to do with the concept of personal fat threshold. So lots of thin people can get this condition too. But you know that. And I love that idea of that rule. Sounds like a winner.

    "Keeping things simple and helping with perseverance should be the aim of anyone wishing to help diabetics with a diet which will hopefully be of great use to them"

    Great stuff.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    Oh I was - I got up to 264lb at the highest - on a cholesterol lowering diet of high carb foods - which I suspect did nothing as they insisted I stick to it but declined to give me any test results - but the nurse did say I'd had a delayed response after 6 months on LCHF - honestly - what are they like?
    I had made myself some clothes which I have now needed to unpick and remake - my kilt could be wrapped around twice rather than the one and a half times it was designed for.
     
  3. bamba

    bamba Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It isn't just that - the success - if any is linked to how soon after diagnosis the intervention is made.

    I believe that the target group for "reversal" are those within 18 months of diagnosis.

    According to Jenny Ruhl's http://www.bloodsugar101.com
    a link half way down this page
    Research Connecting Organ Damage with Blood Sugar Level ( http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php )

    Beta Cells Die Off in People Whose Fasting Blood Sugar is Over 110 mg/dl (6.1 mmol/L)
    ( β-Cell Deficit and Increased β-Cell Apoptosis in Humans With Type 2 Diabetes
    http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/52/1/102 )

    So faster is better in terms of having Beta cells left to save.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    '....Beta cells left to save.' Depends very much on how early you are diagnosed. This may be why the subjects accepted onto ND research project had to have been diagnosed less than six years.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    I'm assuming that your petition is to re-educate doctors to propose the ND for Type 2 diabetes? The petition itself doesn't seem to say which I find a little odd. The links to Diabetes.org.uk who sponsored Prof Taylors latest piece of research (so they are hardly unbiased) give a hint but it isn't explicit. Thus the petition itself is a bit flawed.
    You might also want to read up on the Virta health study which had a better success rate than the recent DiRect study on Type 2 to see the effects of ketogenic diet on Type 2's. I am a bit of a sceptic on the ND as there has been little follow up on the long term success of its claims as well as, like others have said above, the results aren't exactly stellar.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Peterseaford

    Peterseaford Type 2 · Active Member

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    Tried ND and LCHF - was 110 k and now 98 k but seem to float between 95 and 99 all the time.

    The wife and I have tried and tried but no real moves - I should weigh 70 k and will no doubt feel much better if I can even get half way there

    Sick and tired of such mingy results so have bought OSlim platinum and hope that will get rid of the fat and let the super me out - then maybe the way of eating the NC and LCHF style will keep us both trim

    Our pug Puff takes me fo an hour walk each day and I have bought a set of weights so exercise is underway as well

    We believe that our targets can be reached in twelve weeks so will keep you informed

    Interesting to learn if what I read on the internet is true or just fake news

    Have a wonderful day

    Peter
     
  7. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Peterseaford Given how much exercise you will be doing , you may lose a lot of fat without losing weight, therefore track waist size as well as weight.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. kerrygold59

    kerrygold59 Prediabetes · Member

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    LOL Dan that’s excellent for the title ! Well done!
     
  9. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Ouch! Peter. The "fake news" thing hurt!

    I find it hard to believe you have read a lot of this forum on the subject, and believe so many posters could be possible of mass lying! If it was generated from this website - how would they have motivated all the work put in to produce so much fake narratives behind the fake news? Who and what would be the gain? Hmmm.

    Me too re personal experience on the ND and LCHF. But I am much healthier for it, even with permanent out-of- diabetic -range numbers ie true reversal, has eluded me. (Yet I am a success story in the including prediabetic ranges criteria too I might add.) The rub is, if your personal fat threshold is very low, and for some people it is, according to the ND theory, it can be mighty hard to get to such skinny levels, and maintain it. Some folks do! I am not a person who has been able to. I had a very strong suspicion that for me the personal fat threshold was going to be skinny, not just 'less weight', due to my family female body type. And it seems I was correct. That's the one theory. (Thinking of @DanType2DiabetesFree here too, and his book.) The other theory raised above is there could be too much beta cell death already. I'm hoping the theory about underlying insulin resistance, big time, is what is going on, rather than the oh dear too late pancreatic function failure idea. The bizarre thing is - they don't really know! Yet. Is my understanding. (Or I could be in major denial. :). Quite possible! Hope is lovely!) I'm holding out for the insulin resistance side of the story, in which case I will only get healthier as time goes on, with greater and greater insulin sensitivity. And concommitant is the idea that beta cell function regenerates. But if the beta cell ie pancreas/insulin production theory holds out, then I will get sicker and sicker and have a 70% chance of dying too early from diabetes complications. Oh well.


    By experimenting the way you are, and going for reversal, you are a wonderful human subject in a great big experiment on competing type two diabetes theories. Which is true? Which is true for you? Wait and see! Yay!

    Isn't it exciting?!
     
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  10. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Well put.
     
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  11. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Newcastle diet started out from the observation that patients who undergo bariatric surgery achieved normal glucose levels days after the surgery. BEFORE any significant weight loss.

    https://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwncla...ecentre/files/diet-versus-surgery-article.pdf
    upload_2018-7-17_10-27-54.png

    That bags the question...is it the weightloss that leads to normal glucose level? Can similar glucose normalization be achieved thru dietary intervention...VLCD.

    In fact it is becoming increasingly obvious that for T2D, especially obesity related T2D, a low insulin load diet is remarkably successful and sustainable.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  13. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It’s not meant to be. The Newcastle diet is only supposed to be for 8 weeks.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  14. leahkian

    leahkian · Well-Known Member

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    I am under the care of the diabetic team at Newcastle but am not under the care of Prof Taylor but did discuss the diet with my consultant. As he said it was a break through but it would not suit all diabetics but that they are doing more research into it but as people have said that they have tried different consultants takes on the diet. Some have worked better than others but all off us are different diabetics. As there is no cure for diabetes type 1 you have to take any good news no matter what type of diabetic you are. The consultant i see is doing research in inslet transplants but with everything it takes time and they have done transplants with different results but they are trying. In a ideal world they would have found a cure for diabetes but they have not at the minute.
     
  15. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I was just going by what they originally said about the Newcastle diet: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/articles/archive/2015/10/type2diabetes/
     
  16. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    As someone with a very robust appetite and love of good food, I way prefer to use fasting and intermittent fasting (as in keeping it in a limited time period) to keep a handle on weight maintenance. For me it is about my waist - keeping the fat around my liver to a minimum. I would feel very miserable using portion control day in day out as a fatty-liver limiter.

    And just to say - 25% weight reduction? Wow! Cor! (And I will throw in a 'golly gee'!) But it's all relative? Depending on how much body fat you have to lose/what your personal fat threshold is?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I hear you on looking for data and not finding any. I believe, as you do (and from reading Malcolm Kendrick!) that there are a lot more random figures and percentages out there than we would like to think!

    Really important ones, like the BMI, and how much alcohol is healthy for instance!

    And.... now this is an awful one for us.... what levels of HBA1c are prediabetic, what is full blown diabetes. And why I tend to go by the continuum idea. As in no hard and fast cut off points. We prefer them though don't we? I know I was very happy when I had an HBA1c of 40, a few times, which is just in 'normal' in the countries that I have been living in. But you know - the difference between 40 and 41.... hmmm.
     
  18. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    Newcastle said that 15% was the average weight loss required by their subjects to reach their Personal Fat Threshold and reverse their T2. For me it was only 11.5%. Individuals vary. It worked for me. After you finish you just have to keep the weight off. I finished over 7 months ago and have actually lost a couple more pounds. I watch my calorie intake and weigh myself almost daily to ensure the weight doesn't creep back. I am in the non diabetic HBA1C range (40) and have morning FBGs of 5.3 approx.
     
  19. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I hear you @Tannith - whatever works (and you can stand!) is all good.
     
  20. T2#Me

    T2#Me · Well-Known Member

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    Yay! Nice to have a simple goal ... works for me!
     
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