The non-insulin dependent 4% club

iph888

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Hi wiflib am so glad that you have posted this and have been widely congratulated & I will add my own congratulations here as what you have done is incredible!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I am pleased this forum seems to have moved on from when I posted my own 4.9% result on the 5% club board on April 28th, 2009. I wasn't quite so well received then and in fact it was suggested that a 4% club should meet in the morgue which put me off this site to be honest!

I hope the support here will keep you on the straight & narrow as (after going down to 4.8%) without any support I have fallen off the wagon and am now 7.8% & going back onto metformin.
 

daisy1

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Not quite in the 4s - my last HbA1c was 5.0 so next time I hope to be in the 4s. That's because I've started limiting my carbs to an average of 30g. The weight's coming off too :)
 

xyzzy

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iph888 said:
in fact it was suggested that a 4% club should meet in the morgue which put me off this site to be honest!

:shock:

Hope you realise that doesn't happen know. To most of us the 4%'ers are where we want to be so please come back and tell everyone how to do it :D
 

borofergie

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xyzzy said:
iph888 said:
in fact it was suggested that a 4% club should meet in the morgue which put me off this site to be honest!

:shock:

Hope you realise that doesn't happen know. To most of us the 4%'ers are where we want to be so please come back and tell everyone how to do it :D

Although one batch of salmonella contaminated Anchor Squirty Cream, me and wiflib will end up sharing a slab...
 

viviennem

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daisy1 said:
Not quite in the 4s - my last HbA1c was 5.0 so next time I hope to be in the 4s. That's because I've started limiting my carbs to an average of 30g. The weight's coming off too :)

Well done Daisy1! That's really good news. I think I'm going to have to really clamp down on the carbs to get my weight loss kick-started again (sigh!). What are you doing about the odd glass of red wine?

By the way, I love your daisychain-crowned avatar, but the one that really made me smile was the little tabby who caught the (computer) mouse :D

Viv 8)
 

Defren

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iph888 said:
Hi wiflib am so glad that you have posted this and have been widely congratulated & I will add my own congratulations here as what you have done is incredible!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I am pleased this forum seems to have moved on from when I posted my own 4.9% result on the 5% club board on April 28th, 2009. I wasn't quite so well received then and in fact it was suggested that a 4% club should meet in the morgue which put me off this site to be honest!

I hope the support here will keep you on the straight & narrow as (after going down to 4.8%) without any support I have fallen off the wagon and am now 7.8% & going back onto metformin.

The 4%ers are celebrated now iph. I myself am hoping not this test but next to be joining it. How strange some people are that would have 4% in the morgue, what level do they suppose non diabetics run at?
 

daisy1

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Hi Viv :)
I've cut down on the red wine recently, as ordered by my endo, and the weight's coming off because of that I think. Also because I've cut the carbs down further. She said the wine was causing my high LDL. I still have a glass with lunch and supper - one of life's little pleasures. Glad you like the daisy kitten.
 

viviennem

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Jennie Ruhl, of Blood Sugar 101 fame, says that an HbA1c for a non-diabetic should be between 4.6 - 5.4%. At least that's where I think I got the figures in red ink on the Post-It note stuck to my monitor screen! :lol: So I wasn't quite there last March (5.6, or 38 in new money).

I hope to have done better this time, but I'm expecting to be about the same in tomorrow's blood sample. Which I'm well happy with, to be honest.

After the blood is drawn, I'm going to my favourite caff for poached eggs (free range) on home-made organic wholemeal bread with lots of butter, with lots of good coffee & cream, for a late breakfast (and a little treat :oops: ). Lunch will probably be either avocado with the hole filled with dressing, or chicken salad - again! Then I'm going to buy a bottle of wine. Tomorrow night's supper is fillet steak, rare breed fell-raised Dexter, with garlic and mushrooms.

Low-carb is such a hard life! :D

Viv 8)
 

viviennem

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daisy1 said:
Hi Viv :)
I've cut down on the red wine recently, as ordered by my endo, and the weight's coming off because of that I think. Also because I've cut the carbs down further. She said the wine was causing my high LDL. I still have a glass with lunch and supper - one of life's little pleasures. Glad you like the daisy kitten.

According to my beloved Dr Atkins, alcohol stops us running on ketones 'cos our systems run perfectly well on alcohol instead :shock: . I knew I had a resemblance to a Jeep :lol: It takes 3 days to get back into ketosis.

It does affect cholesterol. It may push triglycerides up, too. :thumbdown:

I wish I could control myself to "just a glass". I don't drink every day, but it's all too easy to empty the bottle :oops: :( . I've been completely "dry" for a full 2 weeks this time, so I don't think I'm a full-blown alcholic yet :angel: :roll:

Viv 8)
 

WhitbyJet

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I have been in the 4% club for quite some time, my consultant is used to me now so is my GP, I still get prescribed test strips even though I dont take any meds, my GP says its all important to keep to these levels.

In January I was seen by another consultant as my usual one came down with the flu, this stand in was a nightmare, he talked su much rubbish I ended up laughing out loud, in the end I told him that he ought to think outside his box, he is a danger to diabetics.
I am not normally rude, but he said to me, "your bs levels are running too low", I asked what he means, he said " we expect diabetcs to have higher levels, you must eat some carbs, I'd say a minimum of 4 slices of bread, thats not much, it bring your levels up suitable for a diabetic"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I told him that 4 slices of bread would have me in double figures, his response "we have lots of very effective medication that would deal with that problem" oh boy hard to believe :crazy:
 

viviennem

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I'd love to find out the reasoning that says a Type 2 on diet only should have higher blood glucose levels than a non-diabetic :shock: .

They seem to have it in their heads that we need regular carbs to keep our BGs level - which I think derives from what used to be conventional thinking for Type 1 - carbs little and often to stop peaks and troughs.

They can't seem to understand that, for those of us with high insulin resistance but good or at least reasonable pancreatic function, it doesn't work like that!

Maybe Type 2 should be divided along the lines of high insulin resistance vs failing Beta cell function - 2a and 2b. Just a thought!

Viv 8)
 

xyzzy

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viviennem said:
I'd love to find out the reasoning that says a Type 2 on diet only should have higher blood glucose levels than a non-diabetic :shock: .

They seem to have it in their heads that we need regular carbs to keep our BGs level - which I think derives from what used to be conventional thinking for Type 1 - carbs little and often to stop peaks and troughs.

They can't seem to understand that, for those of us with high insulin resistance but good or at least reasonable pancreatic function, it doesn't work like that!

Maybe Type 2 should be divided along the lines of high insulin resistance vs failing Beta cell function - 2a and 2b. Just a thought!

Viv 8)

A first step would be to actually give us c-peptide tests to tell us if we are Type 2a or 2b :x
 

borofergie

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viviennem said:
I'd love to find out the reasoning that says a Type 2 on diet only should have higher blood glucose levels than a non-diabetic :shock: .

I don't think all the "Foooouuuurrrssss tthhhhee flllooooooor!!!!!'" hypo **** helps the cause either.
 

MaryJ

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WhitbyJet said:
I told him that 4 slices of bread would have me in double figures, his response "we have lots of very effective medication that would deal with that problem" oh boy hard to believe :crazy:


You cannot make it up!!!!!!

And I'm sure he thought it was a good days work for him - education is the key lol

So Whitbyjet at least you now know what to do to be a good diabetic. :lol: :lol:

I wonder what your regular doc will think of this stunning piece of advice.

Mary x
 

Defren

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borofergie said:
viviennem said:
I'd love to find out the reasoning that says a Type 2 on diet only should have higher blood glucose levels than a non-diabetic :shock: .

I don't think all the "Foooouuuurrrssss tthhhhee flllooooooor!!!!!'" hypo **** helps the cause either.

No it doesn't. I have had three's a couple of times and had no hypo symptoms. As we are all different then how can "4's the floor" apply to us all? It can't - simples!!
 

viviennem

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I'm not totally against "Four is the floor", even for Type 2s. I think it's quite a good line for the newly diagnosed, until they learn about their own diabetes by testing.

I don't get hypo symptoms at 3.5 either, and I don't treat for that (with glucose tabs) any more, though I did a couple of times at the beginning, just in case I wasn't getting "hypo signals". As I came to know myself better I realised I'd been over-reacting - but I will still eat something if I'm in the mid-3s, even if it's only a piece of cheese or some nuts. I know that's not quick-acting enough to stop a hypo, but at least I know I've had a little 'fuel' to be going on with. :lol:

For those with no testing equipment, it's a useless piece of information. SIgn that petition, if you haven't already :D

Viv 8)
 

iph888

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xyzzy & defren thanks for your kind posts, I am so glad that 4% isn't considered dangerous on here and it may even mean you see more of me around! :roll:

Not wanting to hijack the post but, as you asked xyzzy, this is how I got into the 4's :oops:

Whilst I was on the Metformin before, & indeed afterwards, I would run for about 1/2 an hour, inc. sprinting for 10 sec intervals, & then come back home to do around an hour of weight training about twice a week. The increased production of insulin in my own body that was kick-started by the Metformin meant that I wasn't craving my sugar fix and lost around 5 stone in total.

I was eating healthily, checking carb, cal & fat content of everything, I remember going into Nando's and having some peri-peri chips as a naughy treat and finding them incredibly fatty as there was almost no fat on anything at home.

As I cook at home I was totally in control of what I ate & getting a bit obsesive with spreadsheets! My wife started losing weight too so I had to start adapting what I cooked so that we had different foods for different diets (she's 6ft2in & looks too thin if she loses too much weight).

Whilst I counted everything I never reduced my carb intake to near the levels I have seen on these boards, I just made sure they were always as complex as possible. As the weight came down my bodys own insulin must have kicked in and my levels got to 4.9% at a routine HbA1c test. The nurse paniced a bit about this and the light-headedness I was experiencing so took me off Metformin completely when I feel I perhaps should have been left on 1/day.

I carried on with my exercise and diet and this included just walking for 1/2 an hour at lunchtimes to keep my metabolism going & sometimes getting more into the weights and doing those every night for a month or two. The next HbA1c was 4.8% a year after stopping medication and that led me to believe I was still on the right track.

In that time we had had our first child and this put more pressure on me to prioritse other things so the training almost stopped & now consists mainly of a large cross trainer at home so as not to interfere with the 1 day a week we have together as a family.

My body started being more demanding in the sugar it wanted and over time & without support I let myself slip again so that I have just had a HbA1c of 7.8%

To be honest the support I've had has been patchy at best (a yearly appointment with a nurse) so am really dealing with things pretty much on my own which has led to me prioritising other things in my life over the last couple of years. I have at least convinced the diabetic nurse to get me back onto Metformin in order to support my own insulin production so hope to be back under control again soon.

This is why I offered the words of caution as to keeping these levels up as my daughter seemed to throw me off and hopefully now I can get back to where I was again. :D
 

wiflib

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You have not highjacked the thread at all. This is exactly what it's for.
Fantastic story and I look forward to saving you a space on the sofa.
 

SouthernGeneral6512

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wiflib said:
So. Four years ago at 47, following a chance encounter with a study on hypertension, I was diagnosed with T2 diabetes. No symptoms but I wasn't altogether surprised. I was 19 stones, (5' 10") hypertensive, following a low-fat diet as recommended by 'them' and had two generations of T2 in my family.

I shall comment on my diet further as this is important.
I didn't often have breakfast, just couldn't face it. Instead I would have an early lunch which was nearly always a sandwich (love tuna and salmon) a packet of crisps, a bar of chocolate and a bit of fruit. I have been a single parent all of my childrens lives and I can cook so our evening meal was always done from scratch. This was nearly always things like meat and three veg, spag bol, macaroni cheese, lots of vegetables and fruit. I would always choose low-fat options, artisan, wholegrain bread. Cereals were never the sugary, chocolate ones, milk was always skimmed and I used to drain and cut the fat from meat. We love chicken and one of our favourite dishes was chicken breasts cooked in a sauce of mango chutney, garlic and ginger, served with lots of vegetables and new potatoes.
I am a carb addict. I didn't know that then but I do now. So sitting in front of the box at night, I'd make my way through the sort of food that is no good for any human. Crisps and chocolate, ice-cream, sweet biscuits, cheese and crackers or the families favourite treat, white toast with butter and marmite. Take-outs were rare as I simply couldn't afford them. I craved carbs and would even fish food out of the bin if there was nothing in the house. I have written about it here.

The first thing I did was Google diabetes and up came Diabetes.co.uk. The very first thread I came upon was a conversation between, amongst others, Fergus, a T1 and Fasteddie a recently diagnosed T2, just like me. Fergus was telling his story and I was listening. Everything he, and others were saying made perfect sense. I'm an HCP, I know all about carbs so that day, my new diet started. No more low or fat free options, rice, pasta or potatoes or the rubbish stuff. I ate Nimble bread at 9g per slice but only two slices a day. I loved nuts and seeds and made flax crackers to crunch on. This was easy! The weight was falling off, sometimes so quickly that my colleagues thought I was seriously ill. My HbA1c's were always in the low 5's.

From June to December that year, I normalised my BG's and lost 4 stones. Then it stalled, so I dropped the bread and reduced things like the low-carb baking and tightened up on the odd carby thing that kept creeping in because I am and will always be, addicted. My weight dropped further and by November last year I had lost almost 7 stones. Then it all went horribly wrong. My Dad died on the 28th. He was 88 and I had watched him rot away for 30 years with very badly controlled T2. He followed his HCP's advice TO THE LETTER all it did was to make his inevitable death very long and extremely painful. I had to hold it all together because I live on my own and support myself. Going back to work after a fortnight was a blessing but I ended up in self destruct mode. By New Years Eve I was over a stone heavier and had stopped testing.

On January 1st this year, I made myself a promise to crack this thing so for the first time, I dropped my intake of carbs to 30g or less a day and became a woman possessed. This is my diet now. Coffee with double cream and occasionally a knob of butter. Eggs, cheese, more butter. Home made pork scratchings using sheets of pork skin and fat from the butchers. Fatty cuts of meat, particularly Lamb, I love it. I try to find the fattiest mince so I can make lovely cheesy aubergine lasagne (no pasta of course). One of my favourite meals is antipasti. Bratwurst sausage and mayo, celery smothered in butter and pate and cheese crisps are a staple as are green vegetables, home-made soup (chicken and leek anyone) and salads. I don't eat anything that grows underground, apart from leeks nor do I eat fruit, tomatoes, onions, nuts or seeds. I go through at least a litre of cream a week. I choose fattier cuts of meat for casseroles and cauliflower rice is now a staple of many of my friends. Avocados, asparagus, beef dripping and coconut oil are in there too. I eat one meal a day with the occasional nibble of a bit of cheese or a slice of ham and I shall continue to do this until I have lost the last 18 pounds or so that will bring me down to the weight I deem to be normal for me. When that happens, I shall slowly re-introduce the things on that list, hopefully maintaining my weight and BG's. I no longer crave and the thought of potentially being hungry is simply not an issue.

Last week, I had my bloods done, and here are the results

Total Cholesterol 4.6
Triglycerides 0.76
HDL 1.5
LDL 2.8
All that gives me a ratio of 3.0 lower than the recommended NICE guidelines.
U&E's & LFT's normal

But best of all, with only an occasional metformin (I keep forgetting to take them), my HbA1c is
.
.
.
4.8%

I shall continue with my ULC, high fat diet because, quite simply, it works.

wiflib
I
Very well done I have to say and still a little incredible for someone brought up with the high carbs low fat way to slimmness.

'm wondering if your blood group is O because of the Eat Right For Your Type book
 

jahusba

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I've always read your posts with interest Libby and found them inspiring and motivating because you struck a chord with me a long time ago (on another site) with a post about being a carb addict.
I've been struggling with my low carbing for a while. Usually do brilliant 'till lunch time then succumb to the afternoon biccies/cake, whatever, at tea break then blow it for the rest of the day. My readings and weight have been up and down for ages now because of this.
So thankyou Libby, after your inspiring post I have started afresh and am now on my fourth consecutive day of LCHF, the longest I've managed for ages. I wonder how many others on here have had their enthusiasm for LC refreshed thanks to you? Lots I'm sure.

Well Done Libby! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Jane :)