KevinPotts
Well-Known Member
Congratulations @KevinPotts! Fantastic results, but is your 'simple supplement' Oppo ice cream? If so you obviously need to eat more!
No I wish
it's NuZest's 2 supplements Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum
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The Results Are In!!
- Thread starter KevinPotts
- Start Date
No I wish
it's NuZest's 2 supplements Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum
I must admit, I was mildly surprised to see @KevinPotts ' trigs. With all that very aggressive fasting, I would have expected them to plummet too.
@KevinPotts - is your Doc considering lifting the lid on hyperlipidaemia, or just waiting to see how it all pans out?
Great HbA1c though. I'll be very curious to see the next one where you will have included variable amounts of carbs.
My personal theory is - for folks with minimal physical damage, is that we each have a natural running range, where our bodies try to keep us, once it has recovered from whatever led to diagnosis. For me, I seem to have settled at the 31-33 range. 31 was when I would say I was running, in a dietarily comfortable zone (i.e. - enjoyable, varied diet, whilst maintaining a level weight), and normal-for-me stress levels. The two 33s spanned a period of prolonged stress for me, then a surgical intervention and tricky post-op period. I'll be curious to see the next one, now I'm back into my usual chillaxed zone.
Personally, your aggressive fasting regime wouldn't fit into how I enjoy living my life, and I think I would probably find it tricky to keep my weight up were I using it. I would say stabilising my weight was probably the biggest challenge for me. For clarity, I mean halting weight loss.
Going from your current BMI, Kevin, how much lower does your Doc want you to go?
Finally in this ramble (sorry!), could you share your Doc's references to an HbA1c score of sub-25. I'm very happy to challenge my own viewpoints.
Lamont D
Oracle
Before I start, sorry no links, beyond my tech watchamacallt thingy!
But through my browsing through lots of medical papers and trawling through the for and against having consistently low normal blood levels, (e.g. 4's).
There is many that believe that achieving the steady Eddie approach has so many benefits for those who choose a very low carb approach.
In my now over two years of very low carb lifestyle, my body has definitely and definitively been healthier being in the fours with the odd spike into the low fives.
On the odd occasion when I hit a six, (wish I could have in my cricketing days) I start to feel it!
My endocrinologist hasn't mentioned anything except about having a few extra carbs with my evening meal. But I didn't really change! And I will mention it next time tho!
I believe intermittent fasting has real benefits as well.
Well done again Kevin
But through my browsing through lots of medical papers and trawling through the for and against having consistently low normal blood levels, (e.g. 4's).
There is many that believe that achieving the steady Eddie approach has so many benefits for those who choose a very low carb approach.
In my now over two years of very low carb lifestyle, my body has definitely and definitively been healthier being in the fours with the odd spike into the low fives.
On the odd occasion when I hit a six, (wish I could have in my cricketing days) I start to feel it!
My endocrinologist hasn't mentioned anything except about having a few extra carbs with my evening meal. But I didn't really change! And I will mention it next time tho!
I believe intermittent fasting has real benefits as well.
Well done again Kevin
hankjam
Well-Known Member
Thanks Kristin
It's as lovely Ozzy Shiraz, going down the hatch with a BBQ tonight
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and how was the OS?
KevinPotts
Well-Known Member
I must admit, I was mildly surprised to see @KevinPotts ' trigs. With all that very aggressive fasting, I would have expected them to plummet too.
@KevinPotts - is your Doc considering lifting the lid on hyperlipidaemia, or just waiting to see how it all pans out?
Great HbA1c though. I'll be very curious to see the next one where you will have included variable amounts of carbs.
My personal theory is - for folks with minimal physical damage, is that we each have a natural running range, where our bodies try to keep us, once it has recovered from whatever led to diagnosis. For me, I seem to have settled at the 31-33 range. 31 was when I would say I was running, in a dietarily comfortable zone (i.e. - enjoyable, varied diet, whilst maintaining a level weight), and normal-for-me stress levels. The two 33s spanned a period of prolonged stress for me, then a surgical intervention and tricky post-op period. I'll be curious to see the next one, now I'm back into my usual chillaxed zone.
Personally, your aggressive fasting regime wouldn't fit into how I enjoy living my life, and I think I would probably find it tricky to keep my weight up were I using it. I would say stabilising my weight was probably the biggest challenge for me. For clarity, I mean halting weight loss.
Going from your current BMI, Kevin, how much lower does your Doc want you to go?
Finally in this ramble (sorry!), could you share your Doc's references to an HbA1c score of sub-25. I'm very happy to challenge my own viewpoints.
Great observations.
He wants me to lose another 3 kilos (half a stone) so I'd be 67 kg/10.5 stone so that would be a loss of 7 stone. Anyway I'll see what happens over this next 6 months.
I was surprised by my lipids...especially trigs for instance my wife is .8. So I guess a lot of fat still swilling around from prior to that fast, certainly the BGs were slow to drop...interesting...eh
I'll ask him about the research.
Tx. K
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KevinPotts
Well-Known Member
and how was the OS?
Oh yes...half a bottle didn't help my BG this morning
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TG is the only result that's a little high, and it's well within the "approved" range. In sport, even a top athlete may not excel at every parameter.
Higher TG are of concern mostly as an indicator of hyperglycaemia and atherosclerosis. One of these concerns has been knocked down. If the TG don't fall to your satisfaction in time, you could try getting tested for atherosclerosis, and if it's negative, that's what counts. Similarly, I tested negative in a colonoscopy, and now I don't need to do any retest for 10 years (including the test type that's done annually).
There are two noninvasive scans for atherosclerosis: "calcium scan" and MRA (magnetic resonance angiography).
Your resting heart rate is 53. Mine is 75-85. You're doing something very right.
How is it your BMI is 0.8 - 1.2 higher than mine, but your waist is 5 inches smaller, mine being the same size as in the teenage years?! Maybe very dense bones and muscles.
KevinPotts
Well-Known Member
TG is the only result that's a little high, and it's well within the "approved" range. In sport, even a top athlete may not excel at every parameter.
Higher TG are of concern mostly as an indicator of hyperglycaemia and atherosclerosis. One of these concerns has been knocked down. If the TG don't fall to your satisfaction in time, you could try getting tested for atherosclerosis, and if it's negative, that's what counts. Similarly, I tested negative in a colonoscopy, and now I don't need to do any retest for 10 years (including the test type that's done annually).
There are two noninvasive scans for atherosclerosis: "calcium scan" and MRA (magnetic resonance angiography).
Your resting heart rate is 53. Mine is 75-85. You're doing something very right.
How is it your BMI is 0.8 - 1.2 higher than mine, but your waist is 5 inches smaller, mine being the same size as in the teenage years?! Maybe very dense bones and muscles.
I don't know on the BMI, I do have quite a high degree of muscle density. It was the machine that produced the results
In terms of arthroscopic investigation, I've had this, in fact it was what triggered my original diagnosis of T2. I don't have any more accumulated plaque than you would expect for a healthy man of my age...my doc thinks this number might be one I can't improve much further, but let's see
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KevinPotts
Well-Known Member
A few people have asked why my doc wants my A1C to drop further and get the average BG lower than 5.0. He has referred me to a study, though he cannot recall the actual study )), further supported statistically by the EPIC-Norfolk Study, that draws a tight link between A1C and CVD. The risk of a heart attack doubles for every 1% rise in A1C. So a person with an average of 5.6 has double the risk of someone with a 4.6 average. Interesting.
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)), further supported statistically by the EPIC-Norfolk Study, that draws a tight link between A1C and CVD. The risk of a heart attack doubles for every 1% rise in A1C. So a person with an average of 5.6 has double the risk of someone with a 4.6 average. Interesting. Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum
KevinPotts
Well-Known Member
Some have asked for my 3 months food diary.
Here's are 2 typical 5 days...the first was my first week post diag and the second my 7th week
Week 1:
14/4: FBG - 7.9
B: 50/50 oats/bran, summed milk - 10.9 @ 2 hours
L: slice white whole meal bread, toms, celery, peppers - 7.1 @ 2 hours
D: grilled chicken, veg (above ground), rasps - 8.7 @ 2 hours
15/4:FBG - 6.1
B: 50/50 as above - 8.5 @ 2 hours
L: slice bread, toms, pepper, watercress, onion, celery, cuc - 7.1 @ 2 hours
D: mashed root veg, mackerel fillets x 2 - 7.2 @ 2 hours
16/4: FBG - 5.7
B: 50/50 as above - 11.1 @ 2 hours
L: same as above - 5.5 @ 2 hours
D: veggie omelette, baked beans, above ground veg - pre dinner 5.5, + 2 hours, 6.8
17/4: FBG - 7.1
B: 35g oat ran, blueberries, 1 table so, milled flax seed 8.7 @ 2 hours
L: skipped it
D: beef steak, bridled, mix veg (above ground) - pre dinner 7.1, @ 2 hours 7.0
18/4: FBG - 6.0
B: same as yesterday - @ 2 hours, 8.7
L: egg, toms, spinach, @ 2 hours 7.9
D: salmon, spelt rice, green beans - pre 6.0, @ 2 hours 6.3
Week 7:
26/5: FBG - 4.8
B: 10g Good Green Stuff, 25g Good Clean Protein, 1 tablesp milled flax, 1 tablesp milled chia, vit c (1000 mg), 800 ml water - 4.8
L: tinned salmon (Pacific wild), leaves, toms @ 2 hours 4.4
D: fasting - 4.4
27/5: FBG - 4.6
B: GGS, CLP as 26/5 - 4.7 @ 2 hours
L: same as yesterday - no BG
D: handmade beef burgers and salad, pre 4.8 @ 2 hours 5.0
28/5: FBG - 5.5
B: ditto - 5.7
L: ditto - no BG
D: grilled chicken and mixed above ground veg, pre 4.6, @ 2 hours 4.9
29/5: FBG - 7.2
B: ditto - 6.5 guess liver dump first thing as slept longer
L: ditto - no BG
D: grilled chicken and mixed greens - I am getting boring this week 5.0 and @ 2 hours 5.1
30/5: FBG - 5.1
B: ditto - 5.3
L: ditto - no BG
D: basa grilled gish, natural pesto, roasted med veg - 5 q and @ 2 hours 5 .5
31/5: FBG - 4.1
B: ditto - 4.1
L: ditto - no BG
D: fasting - 4.0
As I get time I'll add more. Interesting how at just about half way through my first 3 months, my diet started to get boring and I'd stopped testing at lunch time (instructed by DN).
Diet became more varied and testing more but a lot of improvement and change from week 1 post diag to week 7
Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum16/4/
Here's are 2 typical 5 days...the first was my first week post diag and the second my 7th week
Week 1:
14/4: FBG - 7.9
B: 50/50 oats/bran, summed milk - 10.9 @ 2 hours
L: slice white whole meal bread, toms, celery, peppers - 7.1 @ 2 hours
D: grilled chicken, veg (above ground), rasps - 8.7 @ 2 hours
15/4:FBG - 6.1
B: 50/50 as above - 8.5 @ 2 hours
L: slice bread, toms, pepper, watercress, onion, celery, cuc - 7.1 @ 2 hours
D: mashed root veg, mackerel fillets x 2 - 7.2 @ 2 hours
16/4: FBG - 5.7
B: 50/50 as above - 11.1 @ 2 hours
L: same as above - 5.5 @ 2 hours
D: veggie omelette, baked beans, above ground veg - pre dinner 5.5, + 2 hours, 6.8
17/4: FBG - 7.1
B: 35g oat ran, blueberries, 1 table so, milled flax seed 8.7 @ 2 hours
L: skipped it
D: beef steak, bridled, mix veg (above ground) - pre dinner 7.1, @ 2 hours 7.0
18/4: FBG - 6.0
B: same as yesterday - @ 2 hours, 8.7
L: egg, toms, spinach, @ 2 hours 7.9
D: salmon, spelt rice, green beans - pre 6.0, @ 2 hours 6.3
Week 7:
26/5: FBG - 4.8
B: 10g Good Green Stuff, 25g Good Clean Protein, 1 tablesp milled flax, 1 tablesp milled chia, vit c (1000 mg), 800 ml water - 4.8
L: tinned salmon (Pacific wild), leaves, toms @ 2 hours 4.4
D: fasting - 4.4
27/5: FBG - 4.6
B: GGS, CLP as 26/5 - 4.7 @ 2 hours
L: same as yesterday - no BG
D: handmade beef burgers and salad, pre 4.8 @ 2 hours 5.0
28/5: FBG - 5.5
B: ditto - 5.7
L: ditto - no BG
D: grilled chicken and mixed above ground veg, pre 4.6, @ 2 hours 4.9
29/5: FBG - 7.2
B: ditto - 6.5 guess liver dump first thing as slept longer
L: ditto - no BG
D: grilled chicken and mixed greens - I am getting boring this week
5.0 and @ 2 hours 5.130/5: FBG - 5.1
B: ditto - 5.3
L: ditto - no BG
D: basa grilled gish, natural pesto, roasted med veg - 5 q and @ 2 hours 5 .5
31/5: FBG - 4.1
B: ditto - 4.1
L: ditto - no BG
D: fasting - 4.0
As I get time I'll add more. Interesting how at just about half way through my first 3 months, my diet started to get boring and I'd stopped testing at lunch time (instructed by DN).
Diet became more varied and testing more but a lot of improvement and change from week 1 post diag to week 7
Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum16/4/
Last edited by a moderator:
TG is the only result that's a little high, and it's well within the "approved" range. In sport, even a top athlete may not excel at every parameter.
Higher TG are of concern mostly as an indicator of hyperglycaemia and atherosclerosis. One of these concerns has been knocked down. If the TG don't fall to your satisfaction in time, you could try getting tested for atherosclerosis, and if it's negative, that's what counts. Similarly, I tested negative in a colonoscopy, and now I don't need to do any retest for 10 years (including the test type that's done annually).
There are two noninvasive scans for atherosclerosis: "calcium scan" and MRA (magnetic resonance angiography).
Your resting heart rate is 53. Mine is 75-85. You're doing something very right.
How is it your BMI is 0.8 - 1.2 higher than mine, but your waist is 5 inches smaller, mine being the same size as in the teenage years?! Maybe very dense bones and muscles.
I wasn't suggesting Kevin's trigs were high as such. I was surprised, bearing in mind the extremely aggressive approach he has taken to lifestyle and diet, and in particular the intensive, and latterly, extended, 7-day fasting that they weren't under 1.0.
I'm a big fan of Professor Sikaris, and he suggests c1.5 is around the level when the mix of small, naughty and larger, fluffy really gets better. Obviously, Kevin is probably, within Lab test variability on that threshold, so I'm certainly not suggesting anything dire or anything meant to be alarming.
In a later post, I see Kevin's Doc speculates he may not be able to improve this marker further. Obviously with the bigger picture and the actual trig score, I doubt the Doc is seriously considering familial hyperlipidaemia, it just stood out to me, and my enquiring mind.
.
britishpub
Well-Known Member
A few people have asked why my doc wants my A1C to drop further and get the average BG lower than 5.0. He has referred me to a study, though he cannot recall the actual study
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That's interesting.
My DSN thinks my last result of 22 is too low, so I told her I would get it to 27 by now.
Maybe I'll think about lowering it again in the next few months.
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SunnyExpat
Well-Known Member
Some have asked for my 3 months food diary.
Here's are 2 typical 5 days...the first was my first week post diag and the second my 7th week
Week 1:
14/4: FBG - 7.9
B: 50/50 oats/bran, summed milk - 10.9 @ 2 hours
L: slice white whole meal bread, toms, celery, peppers - 7.1 @ 2 hours
D: grilled chicken, veg (above ground), rasps - 8.7 @ 2 hours
15/4:FBG - 6.1
B: 50/50 as above - 8.5 @ 2 hours
L: slice bread, toms, pepper, watercress, onion, celery, cuc - 7.1 @ 2 hours
D: mashed root veg, mackerel fillets x 2 - 7.2 @ 2 hours
16/4: FBG - 5.7
B: 50/50 as above - 11.1 @ 2 hours
L: same as above - 5.5 @ 2 hours
D: veggie omelette, baked beans, above ground veg - pre dinner 5.5, + 2 hours, 6.8
17/4: FBG - 7.1
B: 35g oat ran, blueberries, 1 table so, milled flax seed 8.7 @ 2 hours
L: skipped it
D: beef steak, bridled, mix veg (above ground) - pre dinner 7.1, @ 2 hours 7.0
18/4: FBG - 6.0
B: same as yesterday - @ 2 hours, 8.7
L: egg, toms, spinach, @ 2 hours 7.9
D: salmon, spelt rice, green beans - pre 6.0, @ 2 hours 6.3
Week 7:
26/5: FBG - 4.8
B: 10g Good Green Stuff, 25g Good Clean Protein, 1 tablesp milled flax, 1 tablesp milled chia, vit c (1000 mg), 800 ml water - 4.8
L: tinned salmon (Pacific wild), leaves, toms @ 2 hours 4.4
D: fasting - 4.4
27/5: FBG - 4.6
B: GGS, CLP as 26/5 - 4.7 @ 2 hours
L: same as yesterday - no BG
D: handmade beef burgers and salad, pre 4.8 @ 2 hours 5.0
28/5: FBG - 5.5
B: ditto - 5.7
L: ditto - no BG
D: grilled chicken and mixed above ground veg, pre 4.6, @ 2 hours 4.9
29/5: FBG - 7.2
B: ditto - 6.5 guess liver dump first thing as slept longer
L: ditto - no BG
D: grilled chicken and mixed greens - I am getting boring this week
30/5: FBG - 5.1
B: ditto - 5.3
L: ditto - no BG
D: basa grilled gish, natural pesto, roasted med veg - 5 q and @ 2 hours 5 .5
31/5: FBG - 4.1
B: ditto - 4.1
L: ditto - no BG
D: fasting - 4.0
As I get time I'll add more. Interesting how at just about half way through my first 3 months, my diet started to get boring and I'd stopped testing at lunch time (instructed by DN).
Diet became more varied and testing more but a lot of improvement and change from week 1 post diag to week 7
Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum16/4/
Did you go straight from your fast to the blood test, or where you eating for a couple of days prior to the test?
SunnyExpat
Well-Known Member
A few people have asked why my doc wants my A1C to drop further and get the average BG lower than 5.0. He has referred me to a study, though he cannot recall the actual study
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It would be interesting to see the study, and to see if the only link was between Hba1c and CVD, or if other factors influenced the relationship.
And also to see if there was a tight correlation down to 4.6, or if an extrapolation of the data had been presumed.
I wonder what the risk of CVD at 4.6% is from the study?
To me, there would be far more to gain if it was say, 10%, doubling to 20% at 5.6, but not such a concern if it was 0.005% doubling to 0.01%
KevinPotts
Well-Known Member
JohnEGreen
Master
Kevin I new it would be a great result and it's even better than I had expected well done outstanding effort.
lindisfel
Expert
Hi Kevin,A few people have asked why my doc wants my A1C to drop further and get the average BG lower than 5.0. He has referred me to a study, though he cannot recall the actual study
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From the graphs I have seen on the net the damage starts at an hba1c of 37.
Incidentally the graphs show it is ideal to have trigs at 1.0 or below to prevent CVD.
I have reactive hypoglycaemia and cannot afford to eat carbs at an hba1c of 42 because of the roller coaster of blood glucose.
At 77 it is difficult to get complete remission but my BP has come down and is perhaps too low at 108/58 at lunchtime today after walking two miles this am. I have already stopped one of my Conn's medications to block aldosterone and I'm just on 2mgs of Doxazosin. I'm beginning to think my adrenal tumour is less active on low carb?
D
Jasperville
Well-Known Member
Incredible results Kevin. I wouldn't worry about the triglycerides, or HDL or LDL..................I subscribe to the Malcolm Kendrick view that stress is the only important factor in heart disease.
The question of how low you should go with your Hba1c is very interesting. I have read in a few places (can't remember where, might be diabetes 101), that although normal Hba1c is said to be 4-6, this is only because most "normal" people are halfway down the diabetes road, and in fact most people who handle carbs well should be less than 5.0. But 29 equals 4.8 I think? This is brilliant, whichever way you look at it.
Also, I did look into the evidence that Hba1c is a true representation of average Bg a while back.............it just seems too good to be true. The evidence suggests that spikes have a disproportionate effect. so, for example, all the websites suggest that an Hba1c of 6.0 (42) equates to an average BG of 7.0 over the previous 3 months (but with more recent control being disproportionately important).
However, lets imagine that BG had been a constant 7.0 throughout the 3 months. Compare that with someone who spent 18 hours a day at 6.0, and 6 hours per day at 10.0.................average still 7.0, but I suspect their Hba1c would be higher.
My lab test has come back last week as 6.3 (45), which is an average BG of 7.5. I think my average is less than this, as spend most time in the 5's, but I spike above 10 maybe 3 times per week, due to lack of willpower - the lure of the carbs.
Does anyone else feel that Hba1c relationship to BG is not truly linear?
The question of how low you should go with your Hba1c is very interesting. I have read in a few places (can't remember where, might be diabetes 101), that although normal Hba1c is said to be 4-6, this is only because most "normal" people are halfway down the diabetes road, and in fact most people who handle carbs well should be less than 5.0. But 29 equals 4.8 I think? This is brilliant, whichever way you look at it.
Also, I did look into the evidence that Hba1c is a true representation of average Bg a while back.............it just seems too good to be true. The evidence suggests that spikes have a disproportionate effect. so, for example, all the websites suggest that an Hba1c of 6.0 (42) equates to an average BG of 7.0 over the previous 3 months (but with more recent control being disproportionately important).
However, lets imagine that BG had been a constant 7.0 throughout the 3 months. Compare that with someone who spent 18 hours a day at 6.0, and 6 hours per day at 10.0.................average still 7.0, but I suspect their Hba1c would be higher.
My lab test has come back last week as 6.3 (45), which is an average BG of 7.5. I think my average is less than this, as spend most time in the 5's, but I spike above 10 maybe 3 times per week, due to lack of willpower - the lure of the carbs.
Does anyone else feel that Hba1c relationship to BG is not truly linear?
bulkbiker
BANNED
This one seems to support your doc
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1733810
this one however seems to disagree...to an extent
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22638548
There was no evidence of increased risk associated with HbA(1c) ≤ 6.4% (≤ 46 mmol/l). Glucose-lowering treatment regimens, diabetes duration or a history of cardiovascular disease did not modify the associations.
At least that's how I read them..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1733810
this one however seems to disagree...to an extent
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22638548
There was no evidence of increased risk associated with HbA(1c) ≤ 6.4% (≤ 46 mmol/l). Glucose-lowering treatment regimens, diabetes duration or a history of cardiovascular disease did not modify the associations.
At least that's how I read them..
