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"The Truth About Carbs"?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by Indy51, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. Phill 2

    Phill 2 Type 2 · Member

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    I thought this was a great program I’ve only been on the low carb lifestyle 4weeks and after 20 years on tablets have gone from 9 a day to just 3 to me this is like a miracle everyone should try it
     
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  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Or of course avoid it altogether and don't get any of the nasties associated with it..
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Their body can't handle carbohydrates and as the program showed quite a few people are in this position. That's what diabetes is surely..
    Again I ask the question if you have been eating c**p that made you sick why would you want to go back to eating it again? This is the thing I can't get my head around that always comes up on the revered/remission/cured question. Oh but you can't eat carbs any more.... well no I can't they nearly killed me/ made me go blind/ amputated my toe (delete as applicable)..
     
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  4. Boo1979

    Boo1979 Other · Well-Known Member

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    As there seem to be 2 threads about this programme, I have copied below what I posted on the other one - I really do dislike simple pseudo science which I think undermines the strength of important findings.....

    I thought the proramme was largely positive and it was good to see the message that lowering carbs is a vital tool in dealing with T2 diabetes
    I had huge problems tho with the assertion that 2 weeks of a lowered carb diet had put a man with A diagnosis of T2 for 17years into “partial remission” and that another month or so would see his diabetes “resolved” . I think making those sorts of assertions based on the difference between hba1c’s taken 2 weeks apart is simplistic, misleading pseudoscience and should be highlighted as such, whatever approach it is applied to
     
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  5. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes that was my main issue in an otherwise positive programme.
     
  6. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    I don't recall anyone saying the HbA1c was taken two weeks apart, or maybe I missed that bit. I have no idea when the first one was taken. Were they wearing Libres? If so, maybe they used estimated ones from the readings. Nothing was clear at all. It was confusing.
     
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  7. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think we're making the same point but possibly getting annoyed for subtly different reasons.

    If the show had been more clear about what their observations were showing, then I presume you'd also be happier, as would I? Because it would make it clear to the viewer than you can't go back to the 'old foods' after a period of low carbing - because even if your HbA1c goes down, that says nothing about your poor glucose tolerance, and that's what diabetes is.
     
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  8. Boo1979

    Boo1979 Other · Well-Known Member

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    Toward the end They said that the peoples with T2’s hba1c had improved by x% over the 2 weeks and used that to say partial remission for the 17 year T2 guy
     
  9. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That was my guess as well - they'd used cgms to predict an HbA1c result. I don't think they explained this though.
     
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  10. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    I agree with you, but sometimes there are other problems, not just diabetes. My main problem is my weight. I am willing to try resistant starches to see if they help sort my gut out, which may in turn lead to weight loss. I'll try anything as the weight is the a major threat to my health right now.
     
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  11. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    Yes, I heard all that, but no-one mentioned when the first HbA1c was taken. It could have been weeks before the 2 week diet, or as I suggested, maybe they were wearing Libres for 4 weeks or more.
     
  12. Boo1979

    Boo1979 Other · Well-Known Member

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    Dunno but that would be even worse nonsense - they quoted all other results such as weight loss etc as being down to the 2 week lower carb diet and Im pretty sure the x% reductions in hba1c was mentioned in the same section with no other caveats
     
  13. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    So far in my diabetic adventures I'd agree about the observation in this documentary that something like broccoli, in spite of having carbs, is a 'good source' of carbs. I can have literally 'a whole one', with the horrible stem bit removed of course, coming in at 14g carbs and my blood sugar as measured at 1, 2 and 3 hours basically doesn't raise an eyebrow.

    I wasn't so convinced about the apple thing in this programme however. But it also occurred to me I've never actually done a postprandial test with things like apples and pears in isolation. I do love the idea of being able to eat a variety of whole foods even with T2 so today I've just tried an entire Conference Pear from Aldi. At 1 and 2 hours my blood sugar hasn't raised an eyebrow which is quite surprising.

    It was very ripe and sweet. I like the way it was satisfyingly sweet but hasn't given me the craving to gorge on more, in the way that most manufactured desserts would. I could be imagining it but I also think I'm not as hungry as I was 2 hours ago. It's almost as if mother nature knows best and we've evolved to eat things that our environment provides in a healthy way.

    Obviously, once T2 has developed, even things mother nature provides may no longer be safe. And I'm aware of the fructose and liver fat issue, but I like to think that's only a problem if the energy from it actually gets a chance to be stored. What if I have one a day then do some housework, or go for a walk, afterwards? In fact just what if I only have one a day as part of a diet consisting of <50g carbs a day? Answers on a postcard...
     
  14. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    They were wearing Libres, the presenter showed one attached to his arm to explain it.
     
  15. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    The fructose is never converted to energy. The liver makes sure of that by converting it to fat to store round itself. The sucrose and fibre elements of fruit are separated and treated like any other sugars and fibre. A Conference Pear is around 13 to 14% carb, all of which is sugar of one sort or another. Then you have to take into consideration most fruits trigger large insulin responses.
     
  16. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    I am getting mixed up I think. I thought the Libres were with a different group of people testing out a breakfast, and they were horrified? Was this the same group? It was in a different section of the programme. I need to watch it again.
     
  17. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I took a further reading at 3 hours and was still flat-lining. This made me hopeful that I can expand my very small repertoire of 'desserts' without going down the artificial sweetener route (which I'm on the brink of thanks to the idea of keto key lime pie!), so I did some reading around for pros and cons.

    Are you sure it's as bad as you say for small amounts of fructose from whole fruits? As always trying to read up on stuff has led me to conflicting reports. My reading at this point mostly suggests that fructose will only be converted to fat in the liver if it's glycogen stores are full, and that fructose does not trigger the release of insulin (that bit really shocked me, and the article was referring to it being recommended for diabetics which I'd never heard before!)
     
  18. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    You may be right, I will have to watch it again as well.
     
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  19. Concordjan

    Concordjan Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I can see that you can nit pick and find faults with the program, but I believe for someone that hasn't been introduced to low carb it would give them a great insight and hopefully spur a lot of people on to give it a try. There are still a lot of people with type 2 out there who are still just following their doctors orders and taking the meds while eating carbs. I don't think it was aimed at the experienced 'experts' . An excellent program on the whole for the lay man. I am grateful for it as I sat and watched it with my OH and it explained to him why I follow this 'fad' diet - as he had previously called it.
     
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  20. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'd go along with that. Though funnily enough my mum has just phoned.

    I think there's a layman, a lay layman, a lay lay layman, and then there's my mum. Actually that's a terrible thing to say, she can do mental feats that I can't get my head around, but people's minds seem to be wired for different things. If you combine numbers and scientific terms, her eyes glaze over.

    Her: "Did you see that documentary on BBC one last night?"
    Me: "The one about carbs?"
    Her: "Yes. I didn't understand a word of it. He was talking too fast. He was going on about things like insulin and stuff."
    Me: "Yes, it was all about keeping carbs low. That's the diet we've been getting you to follow for months."
    Her: "Yes, I know. That's why I mentioned it. But I didn't understand any of it."
    Me: "Well, you could ignore the detail and just think of the overview: A bunch of people reduced their carb intake for a short time and got healthier."
    Her: "Hmmmm.... Well......"

    She didn't sound convinced. Still, good on her, she's sticking to it.
     
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