1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

"The Truth About Carbs"?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by Indy51, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    1,219
    Trophy Points:
    158
    On Twitter he is, but he thinks talking about avoiding carbs due to them tuning into suger is a much better way of explaining it. His methods let a GP get results with a 10 minutes apointment, hence no time for explaining the science.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,458
    Likes Received:
    18,385
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I was impressed by the programme.

    BBC... Can we have more documentaries on real experience?

    I smiled throughout.

    Maybe a follow up using more than 2 diabetics? Diabetics with very very bad insulin resistance? A programme which has been with them throughout their more than 2 week turn around.
    2years would be more realistic. 6lb loss to patients with no other health problem and weigh average 2800lb would be 3lb or 4lb loss in 2wks.

    These people, like me, need supporting longterm and given a longterm programme which does take years. A psychologist would explain it better than me, I'm sure.
    Low carb eating isn't a quick fix nor irreversible.
    You are only healthy that moment your eating right and once you're not it is very dangerous...... Higher bgs, blood pressure problems and may even cause MORE health problems.

    The programme should have made that clear.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

    Messages:
    25,105
    Likes Received:
    30,591
    Trophy Points:
    298
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  4. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,458
    Likes Received:
    18,385
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I guess not getting into trouble with nhs protocol too.
     
  5. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,458
    Likes Received:
    18,385
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I noticed he slipped in to watch out for those breads where sugar is added to disguise the bitterness.
     
  6. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    9,937
    Likes Received:
    16,000
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I enjoyed the programme too (despite shouting a little at the beginning lol) I have always rejected the idea of trying resistant starch. I am now going to experiment with it to try to lose weight by helping my gut. It's possible that my BGs will be slightly adversely affected but I need to weigh up the possible damage caused by higher BGs v the damage currently being caused by my serious obesity.
     
  7. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,458
    Likes Received:
    18,385
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I think like most.
    They find a resolution which suits their needs and results.... Oh and expectations. Of course Not all GPs are diabetic which I don't think Dr urwin is... I'm not sure.
    He may have taken the factual info and rolled with it. His experience is gained from his patients.... not us.
    He twitters regularly so I follow him.

    My GP recommended reduced fat milk and fruit smoothies to my 11yr old. He's a young gp too so more than up to date.
     
    #87 ickihun, Jun 7, 2018 at 9:57 AM
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    17,966
    Likes Received:
    12,045
    Trophy Points:
    298
    You reckon he's up to date with that appalling advice? Or was that irony?
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Tabbyjoolz

    Tabbyjoolz Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    714
    Trophy Points:
    133
    The programme was better than I expected it to be. I took the point that most non-diabetics could slip in a slice or two of decent bread into their meals each day, even if I can't.

    I wish they had taken an average of the blood glucose readings before and after eating for the diabetics wearing the monitors, rather than using an Hba1c reading and saying "hey, you're much better!" as it would have given hope to anyone with diabetes still struggling with the Eatwell Plate and high readings.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  10. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,575
    Likes Received:
    3,919
    Trophy Points:
    158
    It is an inevitable consequence of cutting out carbs that other macronutrients are increased.
    Next comes the reversal of years of Ancel Keys poor science based diet that was used initially to support his suspect hypothesis.
    D.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #90 lindisfel, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:03 AM
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  11. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,578
    Likes Received:
    6,974
    Trophy Points:
    278
    Your GP recommended a low fat high fructose way? Making smoothies destroys most of the fibre, the fibre that was explained in the resistant starches segment of the programme. Children need good quality protein, some of which can be had from full fat milk.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  12. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,458
    Likes Received:
    18,385
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I agree.
    Sorry I got pulled away.. Kids still off on hols.
    Yes. I told him I didn't agree with too much fruit but he told us that it's better than big white carby meals. My son should reduce his portions sizes if he is determined to eat 4 meals a day.
     
  13. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,578
    Likes Received:
    6,974
    Trophy Points:
    278
    So what changes are you going to make?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,941
    Likes Received:
    3,402
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I thought irony came fom elephants.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  15. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,458
    Likes Received:
    18,385
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Sorry. I got pulled away by a phone call and kids wanting.
    I agree.
    I questioned the sugary fruit and he wants my forever hungry carb eating son to change to smaller portions and more fruit and veg. GP knows he will get fed up with smoothies but may have reduced his stomach by then. Also my gp knows he's leptin resistant from trials and a risk of type2 because of me. So he's probables already IR. Maybe born that way as I wasn't on metformin, just 5yr old. He's a size adult 11uk shoe. He's got growth hormones alright. He's 5ft 3ins and taller than some seniors at his new senior school. And odd teacher.
    Genes and carb eating but dieticians just weigh him and monitor. He's hungry.... all of the time. :( His dad won't restrict his foods as he feels he's too young to be given a restrictive diet and I ended up deficient and unable to fight bacteria. Sleeping alot due to deficiencies and more medication.
    I guess not a great advert.
    His dad doesn't want to make him ill, in anyway so he feels his strength and healthy body is OK as it is.
     
  16. dbr10

    dbr10 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,237
    Likes Received:
    1,183
    Trophy Points:
    198
    In which case we need to ban it
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    17,966
    Likes Received:
    12,045
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Sounds like he's a prime candidate for a low carb high fat diet then.. fat for satiety and low carb to fix his leptin resistance or maybe just let him be a kid for a few more years. Fruit is probably the last thing he needs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,941
    Likes Received:
    3,402
    Trophy Points:
    198
    It is only in the last year or so that studies and hypotheses have arisen that seem to show that fructose is possibly not the benign inert substance that most nutritionists are taught. I am not aware that it has been significantly verified to be a significant risk factor for T2D, and so it remains a hypothesis for the time being. The hypothesis that smoothies destroy natural fibre and that eating fruit and veg whole is actually better for us is in a similar position, but seems to have more n=1 evidence behind it. It is reported in the media as being truth, but I don't think anyone has funded the necessary studies to prove it. The articles I have seen are from the fitness mags and bodybuilder advice that seems to be quite narrow in their approach to this topic. The ND diet started to explore the causes of fatty liver, but only as treating the symptom, Dr Jason Fung and others are supporters of the hypothesis so there is a growing movement to find the answers.
    Here is an overview published in 2016
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5174139/

    Edit to add:
    This overview was presented to SACN and was used as evidence for Eatwell#2 guidelines. It contains the following statement
    It has been known for at least 80 years that a low carbohydrate/high fat intake is associated with poorer glucose tolerance and insulin resistance [2]

    Looking at Reference [2] it was published in 1935, but seems to be a major driving influence for SACN today
    .
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #98 Oldvatr, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:43 AM
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  19. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,578
    Likes Received:
    6,974
    Trophy Points:
    278
    To keep it simple (a must for my tired old brain) make a smoothie with four apples or more and drink it in seconds minus most of the fibre. This is going to hit the duodenum very quickly. Then sit and eat four apples at one sitting (who would do that?) with all of the fibre. The difference is quite clear to me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  20. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,458
    Likes Received:
    18,385
    Trophy Points:
    298
    He's slowly open to joining my low carb food eating and he isn't very active so we are working on his outdoor pursuits after school. Now finances have improved. His exams have taken priority but not now.
     
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook