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"The Truth About Carbs"?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by Indy51, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. johnoo

    johnoo · Well-Known Member

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    Well said!!
     
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  2. rab5

    rab5 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Fructose goes straight to the liver

    Good explanation here
    https://www.dietdoctor.com/fructose-fatty-liver-sugar-toxin
     
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  3. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Not true, if insulin levels are low, the fructose will be converted into glucose by the liver, if not it is converted into fat. The fat can clearly be used as energy. Therefore the fructose is always converted into energy but may be stored for a VERY long time as fat.

    If the rate the liver makes fat is very high, there is not the time for the fat to leave the liver, hence high amounts of fructose become fat on the liver.
     
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  4. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think the fact that only the liver can metabolise fructose is very interesting, but I'm still not sure what that makes fructose bad in small amounts. And that's exactly my question: is it bad in small amounts, such as one pear a day? Also, if just before going on a walk?

    It seems to me that it goes straight to the liver, where it then gets converted to glycogen, not fat, unless your liver is already stocked full of glycogen. So assuming (and I don't know if this is true) that the liver is a last-in-first-out storage thing, then you are going to be using up that glycogen pretty readily. In some ways it may be kinder to blood sugar levels because it has to go through the middle-man of the liver before, from there, being released slowly as glucose.
     
  5. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    my grandma used to say "if in doubt, leave it out". Now, admittedly, this was about laundry and what to put in the laundry basket, but still..........................
     
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  6. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Nothing unless you already have fat on your liver, most people with Type2 do. Due to the NHS not doing sensitive enough scans, don't assume you have any liver fat problems just because you GP has not told you.

    Interestingly recent research has shown that for at least some people, a small amount of fructose in unprocessed food gets turned into a type of fat by their gut bugs, buts lots, or if it is in processed food, harms these bugs.
     
  7. rab5

    rab5 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Did you read that link?
     
  8. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Haha!

    The thing is though, I'm also thinking of the whole picture, and trying to reduce my appetite especially after a weekend of walking.

    Whatever is going on inside, having a pear didn't raise my blood glucose levels, and now that I've had my dinner as well, I actually feel full. This is a rarity for me. It wasn't exactly a huge dinner either.

    Allegedly the pectin in pears can turn the contents of your intestinal tract viscous which helps you feel full. I've tried other tricks like chia seeds and never noticed that effect.

    I'm probably imagining it, but I do feel it's worth another go tomorrow.

    I understand there may be things that I can't measure going on inside such as insulin spikes, but if it turns out that I can incorporate pears into my diet and the big picture means my blood glucose levels and my weight goes down, I'll take it.
     
  9. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it was one of the articles I'd read earlier.

    I think it was that article which mentioned that fructose was particularly good at causing a fatty liver, which lead me to further research and studies which showed that was only true in a scenario of weight gain, where test subjects (not always human) were deliberately over-fed things like glucose and fructose to see any differences.

    Why, have I missed something?
     
  10. rab5

    rab5 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yeh fructose is terrible stuff. Really we have no need for it.
     
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  11. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Not true in my case, I got fatty liver when I was losing weight, because although I cut carbs I followed the diabetic nurses advice to eat a lot of fruit.
    Derek

    [/QUOTE]UOTE="AdamJames, post: 1803500, member: 459333"]Yes, it was one of the articles I'd read earlier.

    I think it was that article which mentioned that fructose was particularly good at causing a fatty liver, which lead me to further research and studies which showed that was only true in a scenario of weight gain, where test subjects (not always human) were deliberately over-fed things like glucose and fructose to see any differences.

    Why, have I missed something?[/QUOTE]
     
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  12. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I think the key phrase is ‘over-fed’.

    I mean, for me and my body then being ‘over-fed’ carbs is eating more than around 10-15g carbs. I am v carb sensitive and my body shows this by a number of signals, including raised blood glucose and insulin resistance. But that isn’t normal, is it? Normal people can gallumph 200+g carbs a day without blinking. So their idea of carb ‘over-feeding is v different from mine.

    The signs are not quite so easily spotted with fructose and a fatty liver, but heck... i would want to err well on the side of caution. And lets face it, most T2s have a fatty liver which makes it likely that they have been having too much fructose (amongst other things) for years.

    So if I have a carb sensitivity, and a tendency to a fatty liver, then any fructose is unhelpful. I’m not messing about guessing how much is too much no matter how much i enjoy apples. That kind of thinking is what got me to diabetic blood glucose levels, isn’t it? I’m not repeating the error with fructose and my liver.

    Having said all of that, i have a tower of wee strawberry plants growing on the garden table. 9 baby plants. Maybe 6 strawbs per plant this year. 50-60 strawberries spread over June and July. Mr B may see a couple of them. That is a fructose intake I am willing to ‘risk’ ;) It is a race. Me or the blackbirds. They don’t stand a chance.
     
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  13. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the personal insight.

    This is where I think the detail may be important. As with a lot of food, one a day may be have benefits, many a day may have negative impacts. This is why I'm wondering very specifically if one pear a day, especially before exercise, is really such a bad thing. Especially if it doesn't cause a blood sugar spike and stops you eating a ton of other stuff - there are many factors to consider.

    I think this is where it comes down to individuals. A lot of us eat to our meter and are trying to lose weight and look forward to getting improved numbers in our next blood test, which I think can show up warning signs of a fatty liver even if not conclusive? If all the markers improve then we are probably doing what is right for us.
     
  14. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I wish that the producers had either left out the cycling/sports drinks segment or gone into it in more depth. It came across as a little superfluous imo. If one is going to watch carb intake then it stands to reason that one would check values. Having said that, it was a neat trick as long as you are allowed your own bucket. And, because these sports drinks are considered healthy people may think there is no need to check values.
     
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  15. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I had to buy 5 pairs in a packet. I'll send you any that are left over to see if they'll distract the blackbirds from your strawberries. There will be a price to pay however ... I'm not sure of the going exchange rate between pairs and strawberries, we'll need to work out a deal.
     
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  16. Boo1979

    Boo1979 Other · Well-Known Member

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    Much of the study about fructose comes from the states where high fructose corn syrup ( ie a highly processed Frankenstein food that does not naturally exist) is fed to human and non human subjects at high doses.
    High fructose corn syrup has historically been added widely to US foods but not in Europe as far as I know
     
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  17. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    I am with @Brunneria on this. I err on the side of caution. I haven't got much of a fatty liver. In fact I don't think I ever have had much of one, and I want it to stay that way. I also eat very low carb most of the time, and a piece of fruit would eat into that. Pun intended.

    Additionally, I once ate a small plum one afternoon way after my lunch. It put me in double figures and was the highest I have ever seen my levels, higher than my OGTT at an hour. The birds got the rest of the punnet and other than a few berries I haven't eaten fruit again. I never was a big fruit eater to start with.
     
  18. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    May I refer back to Post #98 of this thread where i posted an overview study of the recent (2016) science behind the Fructose question. It is still not proven.
     
  19. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    You may, and I did read it at the time. Proven or unproven, I still prefer to err on the side of caution.
     
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  20. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That was pretty much my take on it after my Googling tonight. Also, there seem to be a few studies where apples and pears are linked to weight loss and reduced risk of T2. Not that any factor which reduces the risk of T2 is necessarily something to include in your life once you have T2, but still.

    I agree with @Brunneria and @Bluetit1802 about erring on the side of caution generally, but there's also the big picture. Our individual diets and lifestyles are all very unique. It could be that eating just one pear on a Monday and Tuesday after a weekend of hiking allows me to be mentally alert for work, and keeps me feeling full like it did tonight, thereby stopping me have the appetite of Brian Blessed and regaining all the weight I lost over the weekend which is what's happening currently. And that increase in food also comes with an increase in carbs, so my carb intake may also go down in spite of having one small piece of fruit.

    Pure speculation of course. I'm not particularly excited by pears and don't suddenly see them in my future. I just thought I'd try one based on this documentary and I've been pleasantly surprised by my mental alertness, lack of blood sugar rise, and lack of hunger tonight. It seems reasonable to try again and see if it's just coincidence.

    We all have our own balancing acts to carry out. I had warning signs of a fatty liver last year, knew I was drinking far too much alcohol, and quit. All signs in blood tests show my liver is probably doing fine now. I'm thinking two pears a week won't do anything like the damage that the alcohol was doing. And it may only be two pairs in total - if they don't seem to help the big picture then there's no point in having them.
     
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