There are many "WHY"

[Oldvatr]

This journal article https://jdmdonline.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40200-016-0235-9
says:-
"Building on the presented evidence, we suggest that chronically elevated plasma FFAs must be avoided to prevent or postpone reduction of membrane flexibility, which may be the major cause of diabetes-specific complications. We are not concerned with the details of our hypothesis, but we hope that the bigger picture is correct. More research is necessary to better understand the idea of early systemic cell membrane dysfunction."

This article is entitled "diet raises complication risk in diabetes:-
http://www.gponline.com/high-fat-diet-raises-complication-risk-diabetes/article/1122869

And I used to think it was just normal hardening of the arteries..... Anecdotal evidence in this forum seems to show that a properly conducted LCHF diet does not lead to increased FFA's and in fact leads to an improved lipid panel. The comments on High Carb, High Fat being bad for us seems to be born out by recent studies.

 

[Kristin251]

Luna,

I eat salad greens, broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, mushrooms, celery, radish, onions and a few odds and ends low carb veggies. I eat about 4 ounces quality protein, an avocado a day, olive oil, olives and a few nuts and seeds. Looking at my diet please advise what part is going to kill me and cause complications?

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

As one who has criticised the LCHF diet on several occasions, I did not have any posts removed where the discussion was relevant to the topic. On one occasion I was requested to start a new thread since the discussion was diverging from the OP, and this made my objection stand out in its own right. We have had several meaningful discussions on aspects of the diet that have been invaluable.

Me too, I'm not 100% convinced it's right and want to see much more research. I realise I'm taking a risk without it, but I also realise I was taking a risk before and seeing by HbA1c rise to dangerous levels and would have to start on insulin.

 

[luna50]

This journal article https://jdmdonline.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40200-016-0235-9
says:-
"Building on the presented evidence, we suggest that chronically elevated plasma FFAs must be avoided to prevent or postpone reduction of membrane flexibility, which may be the major cause of diabetes-specific complications. We are not concerned with the details of our hypothesis, but we hope that the bigger picture is correct. More research is necessary to better understand the idea of early systemic cell membrane dysfunction."

This article is entitled "diet raises complication risk in diabetes:-
http://www.gponline.com/high-fat-diet-raises-complication-risk-diabetes/article/1122869

I greet your evidences links, because you deliver the internet documentation about the problems with Low-Carb diet. Many members on this forum trust more on the internet and on the printed books. Thanks for that. To convince all people in the world is a very difficult matter, because the citizen of Roma know about the problem: "Quod capito tot sententia"

W.R.

 

[luna50]

Luna,

I eat salad greens, broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, mushrooms, celery, radish, onions and a few odds and ends low carb veggies. I eat about 4 ounces quality protein, an avocado a day, olive oil, olives and a few nuts and seeds. Looking at my diet please advise what part is going to kill me and cause complications?

Hi Kristin
My object about Low-Carb is about the EXTREME Low-Carb i.e. when the person ingest very low amount of carbohydrates 5 to 10 gram/day. Your diet is not dangerous, because there are carbohydrate in all what you eat. My opinion is you are vegetarian.
Have a nice day

 

[Lamont D]

Hi @luna50,

I will not present evidence, either from books or texts, medical journals or the like.

I present myself.

I very low carb, and I mean very low, because I have to, to be well.
I have been eating this way for well over two years now.

My health couldn't be better!

I am in total control of my blood glucose levels.

Even my endocrinologist, advised me to eat this way.

My wife has T2, and she has reduced her carb intake and her health has improved.

I am living proof that to be healthy, you don't need to eat carbs that don't come in very low quantities in vegetables, protein and natural fats!

 

[tim2000s]

This journal article https://jdmdonline.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40200-016-0235-9
says:-
"Building on the presented evidence, we suggest that chronically elevated plasma FFAs must be avoided to prevent or postpone reduction of membrane flexibility, which may be the major cause of diabetes-specific complications. We are not concerned with the details of our hypothesis, but we hope that the bigger picture is correct. More research is necessary to better understand the idea of early systemic cell membrane dysfunction."

This article is entitled "diet raises complication risk in diabetes:-
http://www.gponline.com/high-fat-diet-raises-complication-risk-diabetes/article/1122869

Let's be clear on these two articles. The first is talking about a pre-diabetic state with no comment about a low carb diet. It describes the state pre-treatment and looks at how FFAs are found to be increased with a reduction in GLUT receptors and under a state of increased glucose levels, higher levels of FFAs are found. The combination of both higher glucose and higher FFAs is present (similar to the state when in DKA although not as advanced) as the body is glucose adapted and also releasing FFAs due to insulin resistance. It does not talk about a ketogenic state where FFAs are being removed from circulation to be burnt as fuel.

The second talks about saturated fats rather than "fats" and even on this forum the jury is still out on that.

As with all these things, further research is necessary. All I take from it is that whatever you eat, it's easier to die with diabetes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Oldvatr]

Let's be clear on these two articles. The first is talking about a pre-diabetic state with no comment about a low carb diet. It describes the state pre-treatment and looks at how FFAs are found to be increased with a reduction in GLUT receptors and under a state of increased glucose levels, higher levels of FFAs are found. The combination of both higher glucose and higher FFAs is present (similar to the state when in DKA although not as advanced) as the body is glucose adapted and also releasing FFAs due to insulin resistance. It does not talk about a ketogenic state where FFAs are being removed from circulation to be burnt as fuel.

The second talks about saturated fats rather than "fats" and even on this forum the jury is still out on that.

As with all these things, further research is necessary. All I take from it is that whatever you eat, it's easier to die with diabetes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also the report was published March 2012. which is before the major studies on all cause mortality and saturated fats were released. In fact, Ancel Keyes was still very much in vogue and had not been debunked. We were still very much low fat orientated at that time.

I am not sure this report would be considered valid today, except by the die hards and those using older textbooks for reference.

 

[ickihun]

Like any profession. Progress has to be embraced @luna50 .
We are living proof low carbing changes our signs and risks of being diabetic in 2016.
We have a pandemic. Why?
Our food choices and activity levels are our of sync.
Low carbing is just part of the solution not the whole solution.
But it definitely helps. It help with other afflictions too.

 

[Kristin251]

Luna,

I am not at all a vegetarian. Vegetarians don't eat beef, lamb, poultry, bison, fish etc. I eat very low carb, moderate protein and higher healthy fat. A great diabetic diet in my opinion.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Meh.

 

[luna50]

Hi @luna50,

I will not present evidence, either from books or texts, medical journals or the like.

I present myself.

I very low carb, and I mean very low, because I have to, to be well.
I have been eating this way for well over two years now.

My health couldn't be better!

I am in total control of my blood glucose levels.

Even my endocrinologist, advised me to eat this way.

My wife has T2, and she has reduced her carb intake and her health has improved.

I am living proof that to be healthy, you don't need to eat carbs that don't come in very low quantities in vegetables, protein and natural fats!

Read the text here very careful
You are not diabetic. You have a reactive hypoglycaemia. What is good for you is not good for diabetes T2. Your experience about carbohydrate is not relevant for T2DM. You write in some of your letters that you have research all literature. It is good for you.

 

[luna50]

Luna,

I am not at all a vegetarian. Vegetarians don't eat beef, lamb, poultry, bison, fish etc. I eat very low carb, moderate protein and higher healthy fat. A great diabetic diet in my opinion.

If you read your first text there stay:
"I eat salad greens, broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, mushrooms, celery, radish, onions and a few odds and ends low carb veggies. I eat about 4 ounces quality protein, an avocado a day, olive oil, olives and a few nuts and seeds. Looking at my diet please advise what part is going to kill me and cause complications? "


Now you write:
" I am not at all a vegetarian. Vegetarians don't eat beef, lamb, poultry, bison, fish etc. I eat very low carb, moderate protein and higher healthy fat. A great diabetic diet in my opinion."


What is up or down? Sorry, I do not understand you.

 

[zand]

@luna50 I notice you are T2 on insulin. Have you ever tried to low carb yourself? Maybe you could reduce your own insulin needs?

 

[Lamont D]

Luna

Read the text here very careful
You are not diabetic. You have a reactive hypoglycaemia. What is good for you is not good for diabetes T2. Your experience about carbohydrate is not relevant for T2DM. You write in some of your letters that you have research all literature. It is good for you.

I have wrote in many posts, that, yes, we do need a certain amount of glucose for our brain to work normally, the dispute is how much! And if needs be, your liver will provide the amount needed.
I am living proof that it's not many! We really don't need the starchy, 'healthy', complex carbs, we keep getting told we need.
Yes I have a very rare form of hypoglycaemia especially for a male, however, if you have diabetes, or so many other metabolic conditions, there is an imbalance in your hormonal response to food. And most of them that cause the triggers for these conditions is so called 'healthy' carbs!

However, not having hypos is the best way to treat my condition, which means that if I stay in ketosis, agreed by my health care team, I stay healthier, fitter, clear headed!
I have got my life back.

Very low carb works, of that I have no doubt.
If you haven't tried it, how would you know?

Very low carb has saved my life!
If I studied your books and heeded their advice, I would be dead!

 

[Kristin251]

Luna appears to be the same person that was on the boards arguing the same thing a month or so ago.

Welcome again Luna, or whatever your name is now.

 

[luna50]

@luna50 I notice you are T2 on insulin. Have you ever tried to low carb yourself? Maybe you could reduce your own insulin needs?

Yes I am T2DM on insulin and the medications for hypertension and cholesterol and metformin.
I have been T2DM for about 30 year and I use only 8 IE insulin / day
I am surprised that no one of this people who comment on my thread has understood what about I make critic. IF this persons do not like to eat Carbs, then it is no my problem. I do it from altruistic reason.
My critic is not about Low-Carb as general name for the diet. It is only about the dangerous for D2DM EXTREM LOw-Carb diet i.e. where the person intake max. 5 to 10 gram carbs/day as by Dr. Atkins diet.
Below is the name of this diet: Low carb (ketogenic)

» Low carb (ketogenic) 0-50g carbohydrate per day (Avoid this if you have T2DM)
» Typical low carb 50-90g
» Liberal low carb 90-130g
» Moderate carb 130-170g
» High carb 170 g and more

The another 4 regimes are OK for me.
I have used this diets forms for many years ago, before the name Low-Carb has entered the sides of the press.
» Typical low carb 50-90g or » Liberal low carb 90-130g -- Is typical my diet.
All depend by me of my physical activities/day, but I use the Carbs from about 50 to 130 g/day
The two links from Dark Horse point on the danger of cetogenic diet. No one understand the text.

 

[Lamont D]

Yes I am T2DM on insulin and the medications for hypertension and cholesterol and metformin.
I have been T2DM for about 30 year and I use only 8 IE insulin / day
I am surprised that no one of this people who comment on my thread has understood what about I make critic. IF this persons do not like to eat Carbs, then it is no my problem. I do it from altruistic reason.
My critic is not about Low-Carb as general name for the diet. It is only about the dangerous for D2DM EXTREM LOw-Carb diet i.e. where the person intake max. 5 to 10 gram carbs/day as by Dr. Atkins diet.
Below is the name of this diet: Low carb (ketogenic)

» Low carb (ketogenic) 0-50g carbohydrate per day (Avoid this if you have T2DM)
» Typical low carb 50-90g
» Liberal low carb 90-130g
» Moderate carb 130-170g
» High carb 170 g and more

The another 4 regimes are OK for me.
I have used this diets forms for many years ago, before the name Low-Carb has entered the sides of the press.
» Typical low carb 50-90g or » Liberal low carb 90-130g -- Is typical my diet.
All depend by me of my physical activities/day, but I use the Carbs from about 50 to 130 g/day
The two links from Dark Horse point on the danger of cetogenic diet. No one understand the text.

If you had posted these examples before as your indicator and what you were trying to explain, you would not have had the response that you have.
In fact I do agree with you on most of your points.
However and there is always another point of view, I like quite a few T2s have intolerance to a lot of carbs that will give you your over 50 gms of carbs per day!
And I would recommend avoiding them or finding alternative portion size and foods that will give you approximate amounts that you need.
There are many posters that do have a good ketogenic lifestyle, and because you can't really group everybody in just one category, as in T2, posters have many differentials in the make up of their conditions.
It is very dangerous to advise posters that this is the only way to treat a condition,
It is better to recommend being open minded and try something different that may help with alleviating symptoms.
You never know, what very low carbing may help with, even if for a month or two!

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Luna appears to be the same person that was on the boards arguing the same thing a month or so ago.

Welcome again Luna, or whatever your name is now.

Indeed
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/missing-a-few-injections.101942/#post-1164676

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

No, very low carb is not dangerous for type 2 diabetics. It's actually quite good for type 2 diabetics. I reversed my type 2 and cured my NAFLD on a very low carb diet. And improved my lipid profile.