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There are many "WHY"

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by luna50, Jun 29, 2016.

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  1. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    There was a short discussion on fat storage on this site that you may find of interest where it is discussed wrt LCHF diet. The OP is actually ego. Cogito ego sum. Nil desperandum. amo amas I love an ass. (schoolboy latin)

    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/high-cholesterol-on-a-lchf.100239/page-9#post-1153296
     
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  2. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    Here is one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3023148/

    And a summary of its findings.

    "
    In summary, this study did not provide evidence that total or saturated fat is related to distal CRC risk in Whites and African Americans. High intake of polyunsaturated fatty acids may reduce distal CRC risk in African Americans, whereas protein intake may lower risk in Whites. Red meat appeared to reduce risk, whereas processed meat may elevate risk in Whites. These findings highlight the importance of examining these associations in large racially diverse populations and add to the knowledge base for dietary risk factors for distal CRC. "

    @luna50 Not quite what you where looking for maybe
     
    #142 JohnEGreen, Jul 3, 2016 at 6:15 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2016
  3. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My sense, maybe be not so common, is to avoid a diet, such as yours, that leads to poor health and requiring 5 meds, as you have demonstrated.
     
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  4. luna50

    luna50 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi again Oldvatr

    "Cogito ego sum" or on French " Je pense, donc je sui" , say the French philosopher and mathematician Rene Descartes (1596 - 1650) in the Dissertatio de methodo. This sentence basis is from father of the church Augustin (354 - 430).

    I am challenger you to describe this Fat path way, because I have association of you that you know about many subjects. It must be Latin: " Res non verber". Eng. "Show it with act and not with words".
     
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  5. luna50

    luna50 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It is just what I am looking for.
    Thanks for the links. All discussion about CRC are controversial. Here is a part of the text:
    "Interestingly, our findings suggest that red meat consumption may reduce the risk of distal CRC in Whites, whereas moderately high intakes of processed meat possibly elevate risk."
     
  6. luna50

    luna50 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I told you my T2DM condition. I see you do not understand that.
    Every one who tell you they can make curative treatment of the T2DM is not telling truth.
    There are many demagogue , but the truth is The T2DM is "a silent killer" and no one can escape from T2DM. You can make something Tertiary prophylactic cure , but it can not stop totally the progression of this disaster.
     
  7. ladybird64

    ladybird64 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    "Silent killer?" No one can escape from it? What the heck? :eek: Would you care to elaborate a bit more on that? Yes, I won't get into the rest of this thread but this last sentence could frighten the life out of anyone recently diagnosed!
    Break it down for me. When is a cure, not a cure. A year, 2 years, longer? So somebody who has had normal numbers for a few years, and shows no signs of change in that respect, will suddenly at a later date, succumb to a grisly death? When?

    By the way, I should have added - I know many very elderly people who have had diabetes type 2 for many years. The majority are on tablets, some Glicazide, most Metformin. Would you call that a disastrous progression? My mum passed away at the age of 91, type 2, on Metformin. No complications of diabetes, toes intact, kidneys ok until the very end, as per normal for somebody coming towards the very end of their life.
    I think your sentence above is the worst kind of scaremongering, and I would say it has nothing to do with "lost in translation".
     
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    #147 ladybird64, Jul 3, 2016 at 10:31 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2016
  8. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    My doctor and my blood sugar levels disagree with you.
     
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  9. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    The fat pathway is simple. You put fat in one end, you get Co2 back at the same end, and you get bile at the other end. inbetween, that which is not used to move muscles either through glucogenesis or ketosis keeps us warm and increases girth. Fat also transports some vitamins in the blood stream/

    There is no simple description that easily describes the process from enzyme signalling to adipocyte transfer of FFA as Co-A and APo A./B. and all the other pathways that interact. So which system are you needing explanation for? Lipogenesis, adipocyres, bile duct. neoglucogenesis,Krebs Cycle, Cutric Cycle? These have all been explained in the forum at different times, and there are many video presentations and conference reports published and the links shared in the forums. There are many RCT studies and meta study reports linked on the forum with discussions on their subject matter.

    I suggest you do some research here, since this is what I have done then make up your own mind as to what explanation fits your world model best. I have found many wonderful sources of information that have radically altered my understanding of my body functions, and I am still learning.

    Its Life Jim, but not as we knew it.
     
  10. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is the conventional wisdom. Perhaps if you had adjusted your diet based on something other than common sense you would now be in much better health.

    There is zero evidence that my type 2 diabetes is progressing. Quite the opposite. Normal blood glucose and no meds for diabetes or any other medical condition. My diabetes nurse is waiting patiently for my type 2 to come back and then get worse, but so far in vain.

    You seem to somewhat understand that there is a connection between diet and health in people, but you don't appear to understand that there is a connection between your current state of health and your diet. Why is that?
     
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  11. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Distal CRC = Colorectal cancer? A subject close to my heart or maybe its just heartburn.
     
  12. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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  13. ladybird64

    ladybird64 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Ta for the link, I never look at that particular fount of knowledge, what a headline! Is it me, or does the implication seem to be you will be struck down by and killed by diabetes without having any idea you've got it? So, wandering around with type 2 in happy ignorance and next thing, bam - instant death. :wideyed:
     
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  14. SunnyExpat

    SunnyExpat Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    No, it's you.
    It actually makes the excellent suggestion not to be complacent, but to be aware of the risk, and ask to be tested.
    I doubt anyone would disagree with that advice.
    It's also a headline from 6 years ago, and no doubt is as true now as it was then, probably more so, considering the rise in diagnosed cases.
     
  15. ladybird64

    ladybird64 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Really? Hmm. No problem about the awareness of risk, but silent killer? Which is the part I was referring to, as you know, not the rest of the article. Surely by the very nature of the complications, untreated ones, they would make themselves known at some point, probably a while before the death which this headline seems to allude to. And as they progress, they are usually anything but silent.
    I don't think it is just me somehow.
     
  16. SunnyExpat

    SunnyExpat Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    You asked.
     
  17. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    I think the inference is that there are many mainly T2D who are unaware that they have a problem. Ten years ago I walked into my local Supermarket and walked by a stall run by The Other Fount of Knowledge, and since my mother had died from T1D complications, I agreed to a stuck pig test. It indicated a cause for concern, so I booked myself in for follow up etc. But i did not have any of the classic symptoms of T2, and actually felt quite fit, and was a lithe 9 stone smoking chimneystack, So I was unaware.

    But I have had two strokes and a heart attack since, and these came silently and suddenly. Had I not been in denial and ignoring my condition, then I might have taken the steps I am now to control my bgl, That is the message behind the headline.
     
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  18. luna50

    luna50 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    About the Path way of the Fat from the mouth to the Fat tissues and the consequences of that.

    The Fat enters the Mouth --> Oesophagus --> Stomach (Gaster Ventriculus) --> Duodenum. Here the Fat come in contact with enzyme Lipase from the pancreatic juice that make possible to the Fat (Lipids) to be absorbed from the intestine ( the gut). The absorptions process is a little complicated and will bore the reader's. In the endothelial cells off the intestine, the Lipids molecules are converted to Chylomicrons, a small fat droplets (diameter 1 micron.), This Chylomicrons are collected by the lymph rather than by the blood. The Carbs , the Proteins and an little part speciality off Lipids are collected by the blood and flow trough the Vena Porta into the liver. This complex of lymph vessel has the name Chylus vessel's. All this small lymph vessel end in the termination vessel (Thoracic Duct, Google the name in English Wikipedia) and are then transported upward and are emptied in the circulated venous blood in the Subclavian vein that enter the Vena Cava Superior in front of the Heart. After that this fat droplets , the Chylomicrons, are transported in the right heart atrium and in the right ventricle. From there they are pumped in the lungs and go back in the Heart in the left atrium and in the left ventricle and finally are pumped in the Aorta. Hereby all parts of the heart and the lungs are lubricated with this particles. After the Aorta continue the lubrication of all arteries and veins in the organism, until all of this particles are absorbed by the liver , Adipose tissues (Fat tissues) and another tissues.
    The description of this process has been much simplified, but it give a clean picture of this process.

    The LCHF diet after absorption in the gut results with to much chylomicrons in the blood , that are a lipoproteins. To be removed all this chylomicrons from the blood vessels, it take time . In meantime this lipoproteins together with another lipoproteins in the blood are a risk factors for Atherosclerosis. Its complication include coronary heart disease (CHD), acute Myocardial Infarction, strokes and some form of senile Dementia. The important risk factors of atherosclerosis and CHD are AGE's ( Advanced Glycosylated End products), the male gender, smoking, Diabetes Mellitus (DM) and another as I do not remember for the moment.

    This huge injection off FAT in the front of the Heart can be compared with the Oil injection under the piston by the 4-stroke gasoline engines. This oil injection lubricate the piston and the cylinder. This is what happen if the person eating to much Fat.


    The characteristic lesion of the atherosclerosis is the Atheromatous plaque in the large arteries Tunica Intima ( the arteries has three layer, the inner layer Tunica Intima, In the middle is Tunica Media and the outer layer Tunica Adventitia).
    A typical plaques contain a core of cholesterol and is surrounded by an area of fibrosis.
    As the person with T2DM there is a great probability to get this problems.

    As reader, think about the hypothetical experiment with the two pipe's and the 4-stroke gasoline engines. If some fill more oil in the engine , then the engine get problems as plaque off burned oil on the surface on many parts of the engine. Such is by the human's organism.

    All this knowledge can be collected fro the internet by different pages,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chylomicron
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoracic_duct
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artery
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherosclerosis
     
    #158 luna50, Jul 4, 2016 at 11:54 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2016
  19. luna50

    luna50 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    You take all of that very personally. You have right, but there are millions of people with T2DM who do nothing to brake the development of there disease. Someone of them has tell me : "that is not the diabetes should steer me, I do what I like to do". He has been amputated and get blindness and now he is death. I wrote that with some Tertiary prophylactic care, you can slow the development, but you can not STOP the progression of the disease. Remember , there are many different stages of the T2DM and many different processes that happen in the organism with T2DM..

    The recommendation say, on onset of the T2DM there should be started an aggressive treatment with medication, health eating nd physical activities. Not with LCHF diet.
    If the person is not on the onset, then there can be started the same strategy, but with caution, because of the "Metabolic Memory" some one call it "Hyperglycaemic Memory".
    Remember to, the text has not been intended to YOU.;)
     
  20. 13lizanne

    13lizanne Type 2 · Expert

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    There are many people on this forum, including myself and @NoCrbs4Me who manage their type 2 diabetes mellitus without recourse to medication. I was diagnosed in June 2006
     
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