Thoughts and Results from the NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme

[Mrs_Carter]

Hi guys,

I just wanted thoughts/advice/experience of those of you who have taken part in the Diabetes Prevention Programme?

Was it worth it? Did you learn anything from the sessions? Did any of it help you decrease your levels and get you back on a wagon of any sort?

I had my first session last Tuesday, and to be honest I found it very patronising and almost demeaning (plus the lady's voice went straight through me). I was told it wasn't a weight loss programme, which is fine, but I wasn't comfortable sharing my weight (I don't think weight is entirely necessary as not all overweight people are pre-diabetic) so it kind of is imo.

I'm in two minds to continue with the programme, and try to reduce this risk myself first with healthy eating and getting back into my exercise to lose weight. If the weight comes off and I'm still high risk, then I deal with that when I come to it, but I tackle the big problem first (I am overweight by quite a lot, need to lose 5 + stone, and 1st lost already) so I personally think it will be pointless for me, but I'd like to hear other people's experiences and if it worked for them.

Thanks for your insights

 

[bulkbiker]

Have never been invited but very interested to hear the nonsense they come out with.. could you share maybe some of the things that you thought "off".
Thanks

 

[bulkbiker]

Hmm some good.. sugar nono some bad butter seriously

 

[bulkbiker]

And the "healthy" banana...sigh

 

[Bluetit1802]

I imagine it is the NHS "Eatwell Plate", which is no good for us. I have never been invited to the course, but was invited to the one run for T2s. I declined.

 

[Mrs_Carter]

Yep, they supplied us all with the eat well guide, which I'm completely aware of as I've been trying (but failing) to eat healthily for years.

I will be honest, I left abruptly after the first 20 minutes or so, so didn't hear much more stuff they came up with.

It's a weight loss programme without being a weight loss programme. I've pulled details up from an email I had, which I don't think really helps anyone try to reduce the risk of prediabetes specifically. But you guys are far more knowledgeable than I, so if I'm incorrect, please do let me know.

"Our sessions cover all aspects of being pre-diabetic and cover the below.

• Understanding diabetes
• What is a balanced lifestyle
• Exploring activities (moderate exercising)
• Habits, values and obstacles
• What is a healthy diet
• Best ways to enjoy physical activity
• Stress, mindfulness and mindful eating
• Solutions for a healthier you
• Physical activities within your community
• Thoughts, self-compassion and visualisation
• Knowing your health
• Designing a physical activity plan
• Sleep and creating a health blue print"

The first session was related to diabetes, looks like the others are weight loss specifically. I fully understand that weight is a factor, but it's not always the main reason why. My dad wasnt the biggest of men (a relatively healthy 16 stone for a strong 6'1 70 year old) and he had type 2 for about 10 years (passed away 3 years ago hence the past tense)

 

[Bluetit1802]

If I had read that email I would have declined straight away

 

[Mrs_Carter]

If I had read that email I would have declined straight away

I really thought it seemed a bit condescending, like, I understand some people struggle with weight loss and don't know what to do, but the general populace know the basics of a healthy lifestyle, it's just their choice whether to follow it or not.

Most of my research has been done in this forum, I've since reduced my carb intake quite considerably (only really in fruit now, I have a very bad sweet tooth, especially during a certain time of the month) so fruit is a healthier option instead of my usual giant bar of galaxy.

I just... See it as a free weight watchers. I've lost a stone on ww in 3 weeks, so I'm doing something right there. It's frustrating to see this, I don't think it's really helping us newly diagnosed of the condition.

 

[Ronancastled]

Slimming World is the worst advice I ever seen given to newly diagnosed diabetics. They promote high carb foods as "syn" free, encouraging slimmers to fill up on pasta, noodles, rice & substituting low cal items instead of natural fats.

 

[Lamont D]

I ate the eat well plate for well over a decade and all I did was put weight on.
I am carb intolerant and so many others who have type two.
Carbs were killing me.

I was lucky I got a referral to a specialist endocrinologist, who recognised the symptoms, then did the tests.

I have had to be since diagnosis and going very low carb, very strict with my diet, I don't have a choice.

I went to a T2 diabetes meeting, which is why I was eating porridge for breakfast, and veg that was full of starch (carbs). I still have the folder but not the rubbish that came with it.
I had to figure a lot out myself.
But I know that, reducing your carbs and sugars, will almost certainly help along with portion size and exercise, all tailored to you.

What is normal healthy diet for those without being intolerant to certain foods.
It is certainly not healthy for me.

 

[Mrs_Carter]

Slimming World is the worst advice I ever seen given to newly diagnosed diabetics. They promote high carb foods as "syn" free, encouraging slimmers to fill up on pasta, noodles, rice & substituting low cal items instead of natural fats.

One ww plan is like sw. I asked a weight watchers coach to find out the best plan FOR diabetics, and he said of them were! The high carb plan could kill someone!

 

[HSSS]

The diabetes prevention plan is run by different organisations around the country I understand. So the content and focus will vary. Some run it low carb. Some run it low fat/eatwell. It might be worth identifying which organisation is running any courses referred to here for clarity.

Being familiar with the eatwell plate doesn’t particularly equip you to prevent diabetes. In fact depending on what you compare it to it might actually encourage diagnosis. Many of us got worse using eatwell, even when following it properly for years. That’s why they call diabetes progressive. Because the guidance to “help” makes it so.

In a similar vein I did a one day type 2 diagnosis course. It too was incredibly basic and quite frankly useless to me. I think a few found it gave them some knowledge they didn’t have before but the bar was low. It focussed on weight loss and whilst it explained what a carb was (and many didn’t know that!) they then went on to promote high carb items eg baked potatoes and porridge. I guess it depends what you ate beforehand. It it certainly wasn’t the best advice.

 

[EllieM]

Our sessions cover all aspects of being pre-diabetic and cover the below.

• Understanding diabetes
• What is a balanced lifestyle
• Exploring activities (moderate exercising)
• Habits, values and obstacles
• What is a healthy diet
• Best ways to enjoy physical activity
• Stress, mindfulness and mindful eating
• Solutions for a healthier you
• Physical activities within your community
• Thoughts, self-compassion and visualisation
• Knowing your health
• Designing a physical activity plan
• Sleep and creating a health blue print"

Wow, I feel patronised by that and I'm not even T2. Do they assume that T2s never do any strenuous activity?

 

[Mrs_Carter]

Wow, I feel patronised by that and I'm not even T2. Do they assume that T2s never do any strenuous activity?

Exactly! I have a greyhound that I walk for an hour every day, and a 10 year old stepson. I keep my garden in check, I do regular heavy lifting (my husband is an absolute wuss ) so I'm regularly active. I now have to prove to this programme that I'm doing MORE moderate activity than I am currently doing. Surely 8 hours of exercise a week is enough to show I'm not sat on my bum eating pizza and chips all day!?

 

[BuddyB]

I did the programme last year and the provider was ICS Health and Wellbeing. There were several providers around the country depending on the who won the contract for the area. Originally I was supposed to attend as part of a group at a local health centre. Unfortunately lockdown kicked in and stopped the group set up before I even started and instead the programme was done by audio only over the phone. It was dire.

The programme itself was excellent and the 'presenter' was good, but audio only for 2 hours was just awful. The biggest problem was nobody in the group would say anything and 99.9% of the time I might as well have been listening to an audiobook. I say 99.9% of the time because there was one person who spoke up but never about the subject, just with her own unrelated questions about the food she ate or problems finding her place in the booklets. Unfortunately Covid-19 meant the course material (workbook and personal planner) was in a warehouse and unaccessible during lockdown, so pdf versions were used which meant you couldn't write anything on the pages where you were supposed to fill in something or makes a note. This caused additional confusion for people who were not familiar with using pdfs or technology. And that was a lot of people because a lot were older.

The course was originally weekly for 9/10 weeks and then it went to monthly for 3/4 months. At this stage zoom was widely used and these monthly sessions were excellent and exactly what we should have had from the start (it was actually MS Teams used, not Zoom). Unfortunately it was decided not to change the awful audio only courses to video during the weekly sessions and I think that was a big mistake. I spoke with the presenter of the monthly sessions (a different person) and she did arrange for me to get paper versions of course materials which was great.

So I contacted my GP and I was able to get a place on a new course and I thought "Yeah!". Nope. In my area Weight Watchers took over the programme and quite frankly it's a scandal. I started the new course in January and at that time Weight Watchers had launched the new version of their own programme along with the (very) necessary app. To be fair to Weight Watchers it is an impressive achievement, a very comprehensive health and wellbeing programme. It doesn't just cover eating and exercise it covers physical and mental health matters. It is definitely the best programme of its kind around IMHO. And I was getting it all for free! The only problem is that I don't want to join Weight Watchers, I want a course for people like me who are prediabetic. This is not it. I don't want to count points.

You attend a dedicated zoom class with other people who are prediabetic, but the session content is the same as the regular weight watchers class with a token mention of diabetes. Virtually NOTHING about how what you eat can affect your blood sugar, in fact blood sugar isn't mentioned. WW is not a low carb diet, so low carb is never mentioned. And the same goes for course materials. If I hadn't been on the ICS course I would have been none the wiser, but I knew what information was given during that first course and none of the important things are mentioned by WW. Basically the way it works as far as WW is concerned is you follow the WW process and as you lose weight you will stop being prediabetic.

You are asked at the end of each session to fill in a satisfaction form. At the end of the 2nd session I filled out the form basically saying I'd done the course before and where is advice and information for prediabetics? It was the very next week that a token mention of diabetes started being made each week and at one point in that 3rd session one of the group leaders said we needed to remember we were not diabetics and if we followed the WW programme we never would be.

In my experience often the people who do well on WW are the ones who really get involved and it can appear to be a dominant part of their lives. The current WW process requires you to continually use the app. It's the heart of the programme and by the way, it's not an easy app to get to grips with and I say that as a former IT tutor. There's a number of sessions held every week for learning how to use the app basics. Just the basics.

If you want to get WW free (for almost a year I think), then it will suit you down to the ground. But if you want to know about what changes you can make in your life to help prevent you developing diabetes, this is not going to give you this information. As far as I'm concerned WW is probably getting a lot of money from the NHS for basically just delivering its own programme.

I hope this helps.

 

[Mrs_Carter]

I am alre

I did the programme last year and the provider was ICS Health and Wellbeing. There were several providers around the country depending on the who won the contract for the area. Originally I was supposed to attend as part of a group at a local health centre. Unfortunately lockdown kicked in and stopped the group set up before I even started and instead the programme was done by audio only over the phone. It was dire.

The programme itself was excellent and the 'presenter' was good, but audio only for 2 hours was just awful. The biggest problem was nobody in the group would say anything and 99.9% of the time I might as well have been listening to an audiobook. I say 99.9% of the time because there was one person who spoke up but never about the subject, just with her own unrelated questions about the food she ate or problems finding her place in the booklets. Unfortunately Covid-19 meant the course material (workbook and personal planner) was in a warehouse and unaccessible during lockdown, so pdf versions were used which meant you couldn't write anything on the pages where you were supposed to fill in something or makes a note. This caused additional confusion for people who were not familiar with using pdfs or technology. And that was a lot of people because a lot were older.

The course was originally weekly for 9/10 weeks and then it went to monthly for 3/4 months. At this stage zoom was widely used and these monthly sessions were excellent and exactly what we should have had from the start (it was actually MS Teams used, not Zoom). Unfortunately it was decided not to change the awful audio only courses to video during the weekly sessions and I think that was a big mistake. I spoke with the presenter of the monthly sessions (a different person) and she did arrange for me to get paper versions of course materials which was great.

So I contacted my GP and I was able to get a place on a new course and I thought "Yeah!". Nope. In my area Weight Watchers took over the programme and quite frankly it's a scandal. I started the new course in January and at that time Weight Watchers had launched the new version of their own programme along with the (very) necessary app. To be fair to Weight Watchers it is an impressive achievement, a very comprehensive health and wellbeing programme. It doesn't just cover eating and exercise it covers physical and mental health matters. It is definitely the best programme of its kind around IMHO. And I was getting it all for free! The only problem is that I don't want to join Weight Watchers, I want a course for people like me who are prediabetic. This is not it. I don't want to count points.

You attend a dedicated zoom class with other people who are prediabetic, but the session content is the same as the regular weight watchers class with a token mention of diabetes. Virtually NOTHING about how what you eat can affect your blood sugar, in fact blood sugar isn't mentioned. WW is not a low carb diet, so low carb is never mentioned. And the same goes for course materials. If I hadn't been on the ICS course I would have been none the wiser, but I knew what information was given during that first course and none of the important things are mentioned by WW. Basically the way it works as far as WW is concerned is you follow the WW process and as you lose weight you will stop being prediabetic.

You are asked at the end of each session to fill in a satisfaction form. At the end of the 2nd session I filled out the form basically saying I'd done the course before and where is advice and information for prediabetics? It was the very next week that a token mention of diabetes started being made each week and at one point in that 3rd session one of the group leaders said we needed to remember we were not diabetics and if we followed the WW programme we never would be.

In my experience often the people who do well on WW are the ones who really get involved and it can appear to be a dominant part of their lives. The current WW process requires you to continually use the app. It's the heart of the programme and by the way, it's not an easy app to get to grips with and I say that as a former IT tutor. There's a number of sessions held every week for learning how to use the app basics. Just the basics.

If you want to get WW free (for almost a year I think), then it will suit you down to the ground. But if you want to know about what changes you can make in your life to help prevent you developing diabetes, this is not going to give you this information. As far as I'm concerned WW is probably getting a lot of money from the NHS for basically just delivering its own programme.

I hope this helps.

Thank you, that's super helpful. I'm on weight watchers anyway, on the blue plan (as if that makes a difference) as I've been used to counting points as I struggled with weight over the years. I am relatively au fait with the app now, apart from the actual weigh ins (I asked to be measured in metric and its put me at over 100 stone!) so that needs some work. I don't like the point counting, but it does show me how much I used to eat (and how badly) vs the changes I've made. I know HOW to eat healthily, my weight just ballooned (along with stress of losing both my parents in 5 years at 33 years old and covid, wedding planning etc) so I neglected myself. Genetics have probably played a big part too. I just don't think this programme will be for me. I'm all for a holistic approach, but it has to be relevant for it to work!

 

[BuddyB]

I was allocated the purple plan which has lots of carb heavy options and changed myself to blue to remove the temptation. I followed Diet Doctor from its introduction and learned a lot. We've been trying to do LCHF for a couple years, although I lean more towards just low carb because I still have weight to lose. Literally this week I decided to stop attending the WW sessions and focus on the Low Carb programme offered through this site. Like you I know what I need to do. I just want support to help me develop more good habits.

Best of luck.

 

[lucylocket61]

I am alre

Thank you, that's super helpful. I'm on weight watchers anyway, on the blue plan (as if that makes a difference) as I've been used to counting points as I struggled with weight over the years. I am relatively au fait with the app now, apart from the actual weigh ins (I asked to be measured in metric and its put me at over 100 stone!) so that needs some work. I don't like the point counting, but it does show me how much I used to eat (and how badly) vs the changes I've made. I know HOW to eat healthily, my weight just ballooned (along with stress of losing both my parents in 5 years at 33 years old and covid, wedding planning etc) so I neglected myself. Genetics have probably played a big part too. I just don't think this programme will be for me. I'm all for a holistic approach, but it has to be relevant for it to work!

Part of the trouble is that what is considered healthy for non-type 2 diabetics is not healthy for type 2 diabetics and pre-type 2 diabetics. Our issue is all about the carbs. All carbs. They affect us to varying degrees, but our ability to process them healthily is broken.

My experience is that following the Healthy NHS diet put weight on me and led to my full blown type 2 diabetes as they didnt tell me about the carbs. For a long time my diabetic nurse told me that carbs and sugars are not the same, and to eat bread, rice, potatoes etc as they are healthy. She made not adjustment for the differing carb tolerances between the various types of diabetics. She wouldnt even accept that bread, rice etc are carbs at all.

Its only fairly recently, since speaking with my liver consultant, that there has been acknowledgement that my weight is not due to me being greed, lazy and eating sweet stuff. It took my consultant to make my GP accept that, given my blood glucose reading in my HbA1c's over the 9+ years since my diagnosis, I couldnt possibly be eating rubbish.

I recommend looking at the DietDoctor website linked to under my posts.

For what its worth, getting your blood sugar levels healthy again does not rely on you losing weight. Its relies on you eating the amount of carbs your body can cope with. I cannot say strongly enough how helpful having a blood glucose meter has been for me. I test before a meal, and two hours afterwards. I know that if the reading has gone up by more than 2 whole points, then the carbs in that meal are too many, so I need to reduce the quantity next time. I have to fund my own meter and test strips, despite my diabetic nurse now accepting that it is helping me control my diabetes. I have always been diet controlled only.

Often the reason why type 2 diabetes is seen as progressive is due to people not knowing that reducing carbs is the key. I hate the being disbelieved by the medical people, it is the worst bit. They simply dont accept, until made to, that their 'one size fit all' equation is simply not correct, and so they blame us instead of their faulty formulas.

 

[Geordie_P]

And the "healthy" banana...sighView attachment 49854

This is the stuff that galls: there's a primary school approach of circling "naughty" foods (Ooh, CAKE! Did you know cake has SUGAR?), but then they're also willfully stupid and ignorant enough to not understand that fruit tastes sweet for a very obvious reason. Pathetic: unfit for purpose. The condescension described is probably a defence mechanism to prevent anyone asking difficult questions.

 

[EllieM]

And the "healthy" banana...sigh

As a T1, I quite like them, when I'm hypo...
But I suspect they are not great for my insulin resistance inherited from my T2 dad....