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Trying To Reverse Type 2 With Diet... Do You Continue To Take Meds?

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Gentiene, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Gentiene

    Gentiene · Newbie

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    I’m trying, like many people, after seeing how effective extreme shake diets can be at reversing Type 2. However, I’m not making much progress. Has anyone done this and do you continue to take your meds? I’m on Metformin and Gliclazide. My HBa1C is high, last one was 78, but I excercise everyday, am 5’9”and only 10st 9 lbs with a good diet. I injected with both pregnancies and my sister and mother have Type 1 so there is a possibility of mine developing into LADA.

    Anyhow, I’m trying Purition shakes, so only taking on about 800 cals a day, but getting nowhere. Maybe this just isn’t going to work for me and I’m just gutted as the Glic was making me take on weight... the opposite of what is required, so i thought I’d try something more drastic.
    Key questions are:
    1. Has anyone without much weight to shed had success?
    2. Do you continue to take medication whilst trying?

    Thanks everyone for any advice.
     
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  2. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My advice is to talk to your health care providers about what you want to do, and get their input.
     
  3. Alexandra100

    Alexandra100 Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried a simple, consistent low carb diet with a view to improving your A1c?
     
  4. sometimeslucky

    sometimeslucky Type 2 · Newbie

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    Hiya Gentiene,
    I haven't used the shake method myself just cutting down on everything I consume, about 1700 cals /day. As I am 6'4" I need to eat this much, but you on the other hand are bang in the middle of 'The ideal weight' graph on the BMI chart. why would you want to get any thinner? Don't forget that the Diabetes is bad enough without making yourself weaker and potentially more miserable by losing more weight than you need to. Marathon not Sprint springs to mind. I'm 64 and excercise 3-4 times a week.
    Be Happy.
     
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  5. Gentiene

    Gentiene · Newbie

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    Before I started the shakes I ate nearly nothing anyway, maybe 1000 Cals very low carb a day. It was one reason my doctor put me on Gliclazide in the first place. I’m just a bit despondent as I am slim, excercise, eat well but just can’t seem to improve things. I think seeing all those people on TV reversing their diabetes made me think it was possible, but maybe not for everyone.
     
  6. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
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    Hello, @Gentiene, and welcome to the forum.

    I had some success on very low calorie diet using meal replacement products.
    I would emphasise that for me being very obese it was a last resort as an alternative to bariatric surgery that was being offered as the only solution. Also, my progress was monitored weekly by pharmacist and fortnightly at GP surgery.
    As you are not overweight, and have been on prescription meds this is probably not the best method of diabetes control for you. The theory is that it is visceral fat preventing the pancreas from working as it should, and we all have our own personal fat threshold that we need to be below.

    I have to add that I am annoyed with the producers of those recent TV programmes advocating the VLCD that have given false hope to so many, with exaggerated claims. This has in my opinion both caused people to rush into emulating the participants without fully considering the pros and cons, or remembering that medication needs should be discussed with their doctor, while at the same time leaving the methodology open to criticism, thus discouraging some people who could, like myself, find some benefit from following it.

    Bottom line from my perspective..... Always research any method, then take time to think about it, and consider if your own situation is the same as those in the study, and always, always before embarking on something as radical as this restricted diet and coming off meds, talk to GP. I live by the maxim that if something seems to be too good to be true, it usually is.

    I wish you best of luck in finding a solution, @Gentiene and recommend as you are a new member, if you haven't already seem it to have a look at the new member information @daisy1 will post here soon .
     
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  7. daisy1

    daisy1 Type 2 · Legend
    Retired Moderator

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    @Gentiene

    Hello Gentiene and welcome to the Forum :) Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it both interesting and useful. Ask as many questions as you need to and someone will be able to help.

    BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

    Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

    A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

    On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

    The role of carbohydrate

    Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

    If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

    The bad news

    Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

    The good news

    People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

    Controlling your carbs

    The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

    There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:
    • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
    • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates
    Reduce your carbohydrates

    A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

    The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

    Choosing better carbohydrates

    The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

    Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

    Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

    Eating what works for you

    Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

    To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

    The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

    Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
    • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
    Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
    • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
    Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
    • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
    • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
    However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

    Access to blood glucose test strips

    The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:
    • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
    • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

    Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

    You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

    Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
    Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

    • Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why

    • Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
     
  8. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I expect that to make the shakes worthwhile compared to low carb you need to be doing 800 calories a day,
     
  9. Beanzy

    Beanzy Type 2 · Active Member

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    I was diagnosed with type 2 just over three months ago. I was 13st 13 and I’m 5ft. When I began checking my bloods I was at 15. I was on Sukkarto SR twice a day. I changed my diet, began on Keto lost a stone, I felt sick. I started the Newcastle diet three weeks ago, on shakes and certain vegetables within the 800 calorie diet and go to the gym 4 times a week. I’ve stopped taking tablets (I discussed this with my gp), I’m still losing weight now at 11st 5, bloods are at 5.5. I use the exante low sugar shakes. I have another 5 weeks to go then will have a fasting blood test to see if I’ve reversed my diabetes, although my dad was type 1 and most of my family are type 2. So just going to wait and see.
     
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  10. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Beanzy well done for taking effective action. When you have finished the 8 weeks of the shakes you will need to keep to some sort of limit carb and no suger lifestyle. It very possible you will be able to control your BG for life without needing a full keto diet.

    As to way you felt sick, that's hard to work out now but look at https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/side-effects if you get problems again.
     
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  11. 4ratbags

    4ratbags Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Before starting the shakes you stated that you were eating very low carb, do you know how many carbs a day you were actually eating as there are quite a few hidden carbs.
     
  12. Mr.NK69

    Mr.NK69 · Member

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    Hi great news on your results but can you give me any information on what the keto and Newcastle diet is thought that the Newcastle diet consisted of lots of brown ale and pies and chips but jokes aside would really love to reverse this type 2 if possible as I hate taking medication never even had to take anything before this as never needed to
     
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  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    The Newcastle Diet is this
    http://www.directclinicaltrial.org.uk

    Keto is probaby best explained here.
    https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto

    ND is effectively an ultra low calorie diet for a time restricted period. Usually using meal replacement shakes and some veg.
    Keto is an ultra low carb way of eating that involves food but keeping carbs very low and not calorie restricted.
     
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  14. Mr.NK69

    Mr.NK69 · Member

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    Thanks for the info will check it out
     
  15. Beanzy

    Beanzy Type 2 · Active Member

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    With Keto, I was calculated that I was able to have 15g a day. And I really struggled with doing it, my husband was supporting me with doing it, I stupidly believed I could only have 15g of carbs a day. I was lean grilled chicken, meat, basically was on the Atkins diet.

    The weight did start to drop off, but I was miserable doing it. However, since the Newcastle which is even more restrictive, I’d rather be back on the Keto. Although when I was doing Keto, I hadn’t reached Ketosis, and did a test yesterday and I’m now in ketosis since the Newcastle diet.
     
  16. Beanzy

    Beanzy Type 2 · Active Member

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    I wish it were pies, I’d be in my element if it were, haha.

    If I’m honest, I don’t know if doing the Newcastle diet will actually reverse my diabetes. My bloods have been in the 5’s and lower part of the 6’s since the ND, however I’ve been stressed since Friday and it reached the 7’s, which is very unusual and I’d understand if I had something that was sugar/carb related but I haven’t.

    My only assumption is that after doing all this, I will still remain a diabetic. I’ve got 4 more weeks to go, and thought of drinking another shake just makes me want to be sick.

    The whole journey has been tough, but I’m now a few pounds away to getting to losing 3 stone. So I’m losing the weight, just not sure if what I’m doing is helping to reverse the diabetes.

    My dad was a type 1 diabetic, so are a lot of members of my family, so if I haven’t managed to reverse it, at least I’ve kick started my journey to weight loss.

    The plan is once I’ve completed the two months, I’ll be eating healthier, less carbs more vegetabless, lean chicken and continue with spin, squash classes.
     
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  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Sorry but you weren't ...Atkins is about upping fat content along with protein. If you tried to do keto without increasing your fats then its not surprising you were ill. Fat provides energy and satiety for people when following a ketogenic way of eating. You need to up the fats to replace the carbs with a small protein increase.
     
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  18. Falkirk_airs

    Falkirk_airs Type 2 · Member

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    Hi Gentieene, I have not tried shakes, but this was my first yearly review after being diagnosed type 2 last year.
    I found cutting carbs 20 - 30 a day too extreme for me .
    I limited my carbs to 75 at most per day, my calorie intake 1250 - 1500 a day and it seems to have worked for me.
    My Hba1c has went from 53 to 42, and I have lost 24lbs.
    I cut out all sweets, chocolate, crisps, fizzy drinks, cakes and most biscuits, cut back on pasta and pototoes, and go a walk for an hour each day.
     
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  19. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    For your information.
    There is a woman doctor who helps Phinney on Virta Health, she has T2D and although following keto she takes Metformin every day. She seems to have a good figure as well. But as an old man I don't notice as much nowadays! :)
    So it all depends on your need for your particular health situation as to what meds you take.
    D.
     
  20. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    tut, tut lindisfel, it's about what's on the inside as well (by which I mean personality (!) and whether you are skinny fat). :)
     
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