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Trying to understand the science of exercise

brightstation

Active Member
Hi

I am T2 controlled by diet & exercise and still trying to work out a long term plan for better control.

I understand that T2s will have a mixture of Beta cells depletion and reduced insulin sensitivity, obviously the ratio between the two will differ depending on the person and progression of the disease.

This morning, I measured my blood sugar an hour after (low carb) breakfast and it was 8, I then went on a 45 min bike ride and I measured it again and it was 5. With out the bike ride it would be 7 and drop to 6 3-4 hours later (this process happens much faster in the evening). My question is why did my BS drop? is it

  1. My body fad a lot of insulin circulating but having no effect due to insulin insensitivity and exercise somehow effects this?
  2. Dose exercise allow the muscles to take the glucose in a similar manner to insulin so [1] may or may not be true
  3. Dose exercise somehow creates more insulin
  4. None of the above / all of the above / something else
Many thanks

B
 
If you have insulin resistance, the muscles don't take the glucose from your blood to use as energy as well as non diabetics.
(Insulin is needed to enable the muscles to use the glucose)
Exercise means your muscles need to use more glucose, so even if it's impaired, the muscle will actually take more glucose from your blood, so the readings decrease.
Exercise also decreases your fat, which also impairs glucose transfer, raises the blood flow, increases muscle mass.
It also affects the body in other ways, as insulin coverts glucose to fat when you're at rest, when you're exercising it is used to transfer energy to muscles primarily, so again the chemistry of the body alters between the two states.
Heavy exercise promotes the use of glucose to muscles even after you have stopped, and energy stores are built back up again.
 
It is very common for Type 2 diabetics to actually over produce insulin in the bodies attempt to use the additional insulin that is produced as a means to reducing B/G levels through cell take-up of the glucose. contained within the blood. Many Type 2 suffer from what is Insulin resistance, which inhibits the take-up of glucose within the cell, and exercise will commonly assist this process.
For some reason, which is presumably cost, the level of insulin is rarely measured within a Type 2's blood, and I know of many cases where a Type 2's Insulin levels have been particularly high often reaching sometimes as much as 17 times above what are regarded as normal levels.
Obviously with Insulin levels running so high this places additional demands on the Beta cells within the Pancreas, which in a number of cases will enevetably bring about Beta cell failure either partial or completely.
This explains why in many cases, a Type 2, may then be compelled to replace their deminished Insulin cell production by their having to resort to Insulin injection. (Type 1.5 diabetes)
Care in diet and with sensible exercise go a long way in obviating this, and many Type 2's will find that by simple changes they prevent themselves from ever reaching this stage.
 
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Lazybones said, "This explains why in many cases, a Type 2, may then be compelled to replace their deminished Insulin cell production by their having to resort to Insulin injection. (Type 1.5 diabetes)
Care in diet and with sensible exercise go a long way in obviating this, and many Type 2's will find that by simple changes they prevent themselves from ever reaching this stage"

Are you suggesting that a Type 2 who uses insulin is a Type 1.5 or have I read it wrongly?
 
excercise also makes your body more sensitive to insulin so if you are a type 2 and making some insulin, you will see great results.
im a type 1. I train for 120 minutes everyday and as a result I take half the amount of insulin that I used to. I could get up in the morning, My sugar would be 5. Id eat 40 grams of carb for breakfast with hardly any insulin (perhaps 1 unit). After my workout, i would be about 3.5. Excercise will affect your blood sugar levels for up to 24 hours.
 
When I attended my XPert course, i was told that muscles could take glucose direct from the bloodstream without the need for insulin if the exercise was not too strenuous. This therefore helps reduce BG levels. Hence the general recommendation to go for a walk not long after having eaten. Gretchen Becker says pretty much the same thing in her book 'Type 2 Diabetes - The First Year'.
 
When you exercise more insulin receptors come to the surface of your muscle cells. This improves the efficiency of glucose uptake by your cells, improving your insulin sensitivity, thus lowering your BGs. After around 48 hours the extra receptors will go back into the cells and your insulin sensitivity will decrease back to what it was.
 
Thank you for all your answers, being doing some more searching and found some interesting research which may help to explain better the relationship between exercise, muscle and insulin (it is along SamJB's answer)

Key sentence is below although I admit I got 'a bit lost' as I continued reading

"A single bout of exercise increases
skeletal muscle glucose uptake via an insulin-independent mechanism that
bypasses the typical insulin signalling defects"

http://www.indiana.edu/~k562/articles/diabetes/ex review Hawley 2008.pdf

Thanks

B
 
In order to clarify some confusion on Type 1.5 and Type 2 diabetes on Insulin that I referred to in two previous posting on the Forum the following might be of some interest.

Several years ago it was agreed that the current definitions of all the various shades of diabetes would be redefined. Several principle major groups were initially defined which included Type 1 and Type 2 groups, with each principle diabetic group being a further sub-divided within that principle group.

In theory individuals having Type 1 diabetes (Insulin dependent diabetes) no longer existed as they were now re-classified within the Type 1 Insulin Dependent Group as Type 1A diabetes (Autoimmune Diabetes) along with several others Insulin dependent types, notably Type 1B (Idiopathic Diabetes) and Type 1.5 Diabetes - The details are as follows:-

Type 1.5 - Latent Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults (LADA)
Usually associated with older adults, Type 1.5 diabetes can be extremely difficult to diagnose and is frequently miss-diagnosed as being Type 2 diabetes. Latent Autoimmune Diabetes (LADA) is the principle name used to describe this particular subset though other names are sometimes coined. A typical diabetic in this specific group would have been someone who initially had diabetes of another type (usually Type 2), who’s general appearance is not considered to be overweight and also who, over a period of several years will have gone on to developed increased insulin resistance. Appropriate blood tests would show a range of antibodies (particularly GAD 65 antibodies) within their bloodstream, which are known to attack the beta cells of the pancreas resulting in a lowering or absence of pancreatic insulin production.

Type 1.5 diabetes is also referred to as ‘Slow Onset Type 1 diabetes’ which describes this diabetic condition much better than ‘Latent Autoimmune Diabetes’ but unfortunately further confusion has resulted as Type 1.5 diabetes has also been incorrectly referred to as being ‘Type 3’ diabetes or ‘Double diabetes’.

Type 2 diabetes (Non Insulin Dependent Diabetes) was also broken down into a number of sub-sets, the two common types grouped as follows:-.

Type 2 - (NIDDM) Non Insulin dependent diabetes Mellitus
Type 2 - (MODY) Maturity Onset Diabetes in the Young

A Type 2 diabetic on Insulin was also referred to and is defined as follows:-.

Type 2 diabetes and Insulin
In a number of instances, often after a lengthy time period usually of several years, there are occasions where a Type 2 diabetic (Non Insulin Dependent Diabetic) is unable by what ever means to obtain satisfactory overall control of their own blood glucose levels using either diet and/or oral diabetic medications. Unlike the common criteria for establishing Type 1.5 diabetes, these individuals are often average/overweight and show none of the defining Antibodies used as markers for Type 1.5 diabetes (notably GAD 65) within their bloodstream.

With such individuals, several factors including increased Insulin resistance will often mean that additional Insulin might have to be considered to supplement their own Insulin production, which in many cases may well be the result of tailing off as Pancreatic Beta cells gradually fail to meet the individual's Insulin demand.

Having to now resort to additional Insulin will now technically mean that they are now no longer classified as being Type 2 (NIDDM) but instead are classified within this specific group hovering somewhere between the two states of Type 2 (NIDDM) and Type 1.5 (LADA) Insulin Dependent)

I haven't posted any of the other diabetic groupings but for those interested there are many other types some of which are:-

Type 3 - Brain Related Diabetes (Recently Discovered) - Linked to Alzheimer and Dementia
Gestational Diabetes Melitus (GDM)
Pre-Diabetes
Diabetes Insipidus (Tasteless Diabetes)
Diabetes resulting from various hormone imbalances or another Medical condition
Also several other types of diabetes not commonly seen here in the U.K.

Sorry for such a long lengthy reply - Hope the explanation on Type 1.5 & Type 2 on Insulin is now a bit clearer
 
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In order to clarify some confusion on Type 1.5 and Type 2 diabetes on Insulin that I referred to in two previous posting on the Forum the following might be of some interest.

Several years ago it was agreed that the current definitions of all the various shades of diabetes would be redefined. Several principle major groups were initially defined which included Type 1 and Type 2 groups, with each principle diabetic group being a further sub-divided within that principle group.

In theory individuals having Type 1 diabetes (Insulin dependent diabetes) no longer existed as they were now re-classified within the Type 1 Insulin Dependent Group as Type 1A diabetes (Autoimmune Diabetes) along with several others Insulin dependent types, notably Type 1B (Idiopathic Diabetes) and Type 1.5 Diabetes - The details are as follows:-

Type 1.5 - Latent Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults (LADA)
Usually associated with older adults, Type 1.5 diabetes can be extremely difficult to diagnose and is frequently miss-diagnosed as being Type 2 diabetes. Latent Autoimmune Diabetes (LADA) is the principle name used to describe this particular subset though other names are sometimes coined. A typical diabetic in this specific group would have been someone who initially had diabetes of another type (usually Type 2), who’s general appearance is not considered to be overweight and also who, over a period of several years will have gone on to developed increased insulin resistance. Appropriate blood tests would show a range of antibodies (particularly GAD 65 antibodies) within their bloodstream, which are known to attack the beta cells of the pancreas resulting in a lowering or absence of pancreatic insulin production.

Type 1.5 diabetes is also referred to as ‘Slow Onset Type 1 diabetes’ which describes this diabetic condition much better than ‘Latent Autoimmune Diabetes’ but unfortunately further confusion has resulted as Type 1.5 diabetes has also been incorrectly referred to as being ‘Type 3’ diabetes or ‘Double diabetes’.

Type 2 diabetes (Non Insulin Dependent Diabetes) was also broken down into a number of sub-sets, the two common types grouped as follows:-.

Type 2 - (NIDDM) Non Insulin dependent diabetes Mellitus
Type 2 - (MODY) Maturity Onset Diabetes in the Young

A Type 2 diabetic on Insulin was also referred to and is defined as follows:-.

Type 2 diabetes and Insulin
In a number of instances, often after a lengthy time period usually of several years, there are occasions where a Type 2 diabetic (Non Insulin Dependent Diabetic) is unable by what ever means to obtain satisfactory overall control of their own blood glucose levels using either diet and/or oral diabetic medications. Unlike the common criteria for establishing Type 1.5 diabetes, these individuals are often average/overweight and show none of the defining Antibodies used as markers for Type 1.5 diabetes (notably GAD 65) within their bloodstream.

With such individuals, several factors including increased Insulin resistance will often mean that additional Insulin might have to be considered to supplement their own Insulin production, which in many cases may well be the result of tailing off as Pancreatic Beta cells gradually fail to meet the individual's Insulin demand.

Having to now resort to additional Insulin will now technically mean that they are now no longer classified as being Type 2 (NIDDM) but instead are classified within this specific group hovering somewhere between the two states of Type 2 (NIDDM) and Type 1.5 (LADA) Insulin Dependent)

I haven't posted any of the other diabetic groupings but for those interested there are many other types some of which are:-

Type 3 - Brain Related Diabetes (Recently Discovered) - Linked to Alzheimer and Dementia
Gestational Diabetes Melitus (GDM)
Pre-Diabetes
Diabetes Insipidus (Tasteless Diabetes)
Diabetes resulting from various hormone imbalances or another Medical condition
Also several other types of diabetes not commonly seen here in the U.K.

Sorry for such a long lengthy reply - Hope the explanation on Type 1.5 & Type 2 on Insulin is now a bit clearer

Many thanks indeed Lazybones for this detailed explanation - I'm sure that many people with diabetes will find it useful. I know that I did as I'm only four months in to this.



Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
Lazybones, Sorry my interpretation of the definitions varies in several places. Really this should have a new thread since it isn't to do with exercise (so apologies to the original poster)

The idea of the classification used since 1999 is that diabetes is the result of several distinctly different disease processes .
All the quotes are from Definition, Diagnosis and Classification of Diabetes Mellitus and its Complications WHO 1999

In theory, everyone with diabetes goes through a period of prediabetes, even those with fast onset T1 . It is not the treatment but the underlying disease process which separates one type from another. . People don't change from one type of diabetes to another (unless misdiagnosed)

The old terms IDDM and NIDDM were abandoned because they could indeed confuse.
It is recommended that the terms "insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus" and "non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus" and their acronyms "IDDM" and "NIDDM" no longer be used. These terms have been confusing and frequently resulted in patients being classified based on treatment rather than on pathogenesis.

T1

includes "
those cases attributable to an autoimmune process, as well as those with beta-cell destruction and who are prone to ketoacidosis for which neither an aetiology nor a pathogenesis is known (idiopathic)."
T1a autoimmune includes the slowly developing form LADA
The slowly progressive form generally occurs in adults and is sometimes referred to as latent autoimmune diabetes in adults (LADA). Some patients, particularly children and adolescents, may present with ketoacidosis as the first manifestation of the disease (26). Others have modest fasting hyperglycaemia that can rapidly change to severe hyperglycaemia and/or ketoacidosis in the presence of infection or other stress. Still others, particularly adults, may retain residual beta-cell function, sufficient to prevent ketoacidosis, for many years (27). Individuals with this form of Type 1 diabetes often become dependent on insulin for survival eventually and are at risk for ketoacidosis (28). At this stage of the disease, there is little or no insulin secretion as manifested by low or undetectable levels of plasma C-peptide (29).
Markers of immune destruction, including islet cell autoantibodies, and/or autoantibodies to insulin, and autoantibodies to glutamic acid decarboxylase (GAD) are present in 85-90 % of individuals with Type 1 diabetes mellitus when fasting diabetic hyperglycaemia is initially detected

LADA is probably more well known today (not by some GPs though) It was however defined in the 1999 document quoted above . People with LADA will become insulin dependent because the autoimmune process destroys the beta cells not because they become more insulin resistant. Many people with LADA are very insulin sensitive.

T1b is :idiopathic(unknown causes) though the example given in the document. A type of diabetes , sometimes called 'Flatbush' where insulin dependency tends to come and go is more often known today as ketosis prone T2. This type only gets the occasional mention in the literature.


Other Specific Types
There are indeed a large number of types of diabetes mellitus that have well known disease cause/process. These are listed in 8 subsets These are a bit in limbo as to name, they are either just called other types of diabetes or occasionally T3 a- h
Amongst them are types of diabetes caused by genetic mutations, those caused by other diseases, those caused by damage or loss of the pancreas.(this last is quite often referred to as 3C)

The misnamed MODY is not a form of T2. It is listed in this section. It is caused by one of several genetic mutation (we now know of 11, some very rare) It is categorised as a diabetes caused by a genetic defect in insulin secretion. We have recently had people on the forum with MIDD, (maternally inherited diabetes and deafness this is caused by a genetic mutation in mitochondrial DNA)
whole list here:
Gestational has it's own category.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3006051/table/T1/

T2
I've left T2 until last since it's the hardest to describe. (and this is far to long)
T2 contains a mixture of all those who haven't evidence of an autoimmune attack and who don't have one of the 'other' defined varieties. The committee actually suggested that as different causes were found some would be removed from the T2 section . They mentioned for example
'a lean phenotype of Type 2 diabetes mellitus in adults found in the Indian sub-continent may be very distinct from the more characteristic form of Type 2 found in Caucasians' but said they didn't have enough information to categorise it separately
T2 includes by far the greatest number of people.
People with it have a combination of relative insulin deficiency and insulin resistance. This varies from person to person and one or other may predominate. ie they may not make enough insulin to counter their own degree of insulin resistance. Often (sorry the document says this) 'people with this form of diabetes are obese, and obesity itself causes or aggravates insulin resistance. '

Some may eventually need insulin. However they do not become T1. and in many cases do not actually require insulin to survive. (in the short term that is)

The first link is to a copy of the committee recommendations, the WHO own link isn't working.
The second is to the easier to read version. This is the 2011 ADA version which is in most places identical but has slight changes to include more recent findings eg, specific gene associations in T1 )
http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/philip.home/who_dmc.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3006051/
 
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^ Maybe someone ought to start a new thread, e.g. "Classification/Types of Diabetes - Discussion/References" .
I have also found a very interesting web site.
This topic is also relevant in 2 other threads currently live: Is Diabetes a sugar intolerance and My Dr told me.
With a new thread running it would be straightforward to put links to it in the other threads (including this one, as the topic is hijacking it).
Maybe pin it somewhere too.
Mods ???
Nice idea Brian. Lots of great info there which makes a lot of sense and removes lots of questions and doubt.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
I am T2 controlled by diet & exercise and still trying to work out a long term plan for better control.

I understand that T2s will have a mixture of Beta cells depletion and reduced insulin sensitivity, obviously the ratio between the two will differ depending on the person and progression of the disease.

This morning, I measured my blood sugar an hour after (low carb) breakfast and it was 8, I then went on a 45 min bike ride and I measured it again and it was 5. With out the bike ride it would be 7 and drop to 6 3-4 hours later (this process happens much faster in the evening). My question is why did my BS drop?

Exercise has several effects on blood chemistry, lowering VLDL, increasing insulin sensitivity, lowering de novo lipogenesis, but there are many factors, how much exercise, how many times the subject exercises, how intense the exercise, how fit the subject is etc. As with many of these things, the body adapts to the new regime. There is a lot of research and many different observations made, this one for women during pregnancy:

"Significant declines in blood glucose level were observed during low- and moderate-intensity exercise compared to rest. These differences were gone by 45 min after exercise."

This one on High Intensity Training:

"With type 2 diabetes, a single session improved postprandial BG for 24 hours, while a 2-week program reduced the average BG by 13% at 48 to 72 hours after exercise and also increased GLUT4 by 369%."

The paper below discusses different exercise regimes:

The effects of changes in physical activity on major cardiovascular risk factors, hemodynamics, sympathetic function, and glucose utilization in man: a controlled study of four levels of activity.

NB. GLUT4 is the insulin-regulated glucose transporter found primarily in adipose tissues and striated muscle (skeletal and cardiac) that is responsible for insulin-regulated glucose transport into the cell.
 
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Exercise has several effects on blood chemistry, lowering VLDL, increasing insulin sensitivity, lowering de novo lipogenesis, but there are many factors, how much exercise, how many times the subject exercises, how intense the exercise, how fit the subject is etc. As with many of these things, the body adapts to the new regime. There is a lot of research and many different observations made, this one for women during pregnancy:

"Significant declines in blood glucose level were observed during low- and moderate-intensity exercise compared to rest. These differences were gone by 45 min after exercise."

This one on High Intensity Training:

"With type 2 diabetes, a single session improved postprandial BG for 24 hours, while a 2-week program reduced the average BG by 13% at 48 to 72 hours after exercise and also increased GLUT4 by 369%."

The paper below discusses different exercise regimes:

The effects of changes in physical activity on major cardiovascular risk factors, hemodynamics, sympathetic function, and glucose utilization in man: a controlled study of four levels of activity.

NB. GLUT4 is the insulin-regulated glucose transporter found primarily in adipose tissues and striated muscle (skeletal and cardiac) that is responsible for insulin-regulated glucose transport into the cell.

Exercise can be a bit of a tricky area - low/moderate levels of exercise have a beneficial effect on BG levels - causing them to lower. High intensity exercise can cause blood glucose levels to rise - which obviously is undesirable. Greater benefits come from high intensity exercise however.
This is why exercise involving a combination of both moderate and high intensity appears to optimise the results.

Good to see GLUT4 mentioned:) - this is the transporter that enables glucose to be transported directly into working muscle cells without the need for insulin. When exercising the GLUT4 become mobilised and are charged ready to help transport glucose into hungry muscle cells. This is what improves insulin sensitivity. The effects (as observed with the woman during pregnancy) last longer if exercise has been high intensity.

As to the variations in types of diabetes:confused: - another thread is a great idea.

Appreciating the importance, but acknowledging the general confusion (from both industry and patients alike) around diabetes and exercise, Team Blood Glucose have been set up to try to unravel some of these issues, and begin to clarify how best to make health improvements through exercise. It's just a case of making our voices heard by Pharma to ensure this area gets support.
 
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