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Type 2: Fasting Experiment To Lower Bg

I woke up early today, and then went back to bed to catch up on some sleep. I have been waking early every day, no matter what time I go to bed, and had a late-ish night last night. I am looking forward to a lovely meal with the family - belly pork and salad, as I am eating most of my veggies raw to lengthen the digestion time. I find that if I eat cooked vegetables I get more of a spike. I did find a recipe for low carb yorkshire puddings, however, so I may give that a try today.

I am still getting slightly higher BG results than I did in the first week of the experiment, but I am also sniffling a bit, so I think I have a cold at the moment. Before when I had colds I would be fairly ill for 3-4 weeks, often spending several months at each end of the year with flu-like symptoms. Hopefully this is an indicator that I am dealing with challenges to my immune system better and maybe I will spend less time feeling terrible.

My weight has gone down again a little after going up after the meal on Friday night. I always have a bounce up when I eat out unless it is something like a salad and just meat or fish as there are clearly carbs in there that affect me. I think this effect is as a result of the body re-building its stores of glycogen and as a side effect, retaining water. That water weight (1.2lb) is gone now, and in my husbands case, he has lost the 3lb he put on after eating half a large naan bread.

As a result of the weight drop this morning I have hit my first big goal, to get to 250lb. I have set the next one, which is to get my weight down to 202.8lb, which will take my BMI into the overweight category. I am predicted to get there by the 1st December according to the website I use for weight loss tools and peer support - www.weightlossresources.co.uk - while on the rather long journey to a healthy weight.

My last reading of the day is a 4.9. My BG readings today are a lot closer to the readings I did in the first week of this experiment - mainly in the low and mid 5s. The last week's readings have been mainly in the high 5s and mid 6s. I had a bit of a sniffle from mid week this week, which seems to have almost gone, so I think the small rise in readings was to do with a cold. It looks like the readings are coming down now, so hopefully I will see some more movement downwards in my readings over the next few weeks.

I am going to continue the experiment and switch back to eating to my meter, even if that means the fast going into the next day. I will be doing the weekly update tomorrow, and seeing how this week compares with week one.

Day 14 - Weight: 113.4 kilos / BMI 36.9 / Waist to Height Ratio: 66%

7.24am - FBG: 5.6
10.17am - DP: 6.1
? - Under 5.2: Not down far enough so eating mid afternoon to keep meal time within range
3.25pm - Pre-meal: 5.5
5.22pm - Post-meal (2hrs): 5.8
6.48pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 5.7
11.09pm - Bedtime: 4.9

Meal: Roast belly pork, pork sausages, cucumber, yellow pepper, avocado, olives, walnuts, pecans, oxo in boiling water with double cream, coffee with coconut cream, all other fluids water.

I am adding a couple of twists of himalayan pink salt to meals to increase my salt intake.

Carbs: 16.6g
Protein: 75.2g
Fat: 153.5g
Cals: 1751

Length of Fast: 27hrs 45mins
Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
Today's Average BG Reading: 5.6
Breathalyser reading: 0.24% BAC

Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
39.9 - Day 8
39.6 - Day 9
39.4 - Day 10
39.3 - Day 11
39.3 - Day 12
39.2 - Day 13
38.9 - Day 14

I suspect that doing more readings whilst intermittently fasting has probably skewed this a little downwards.
 
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I have decided to return to the original protocol of fasting until the target BG range is reached, and setting it back to not eating until the BG is under 5.2. This should enable me to have a pattern of one meal a day in theory.

I will be aiming for eating at the optimum time of day, which is before 12 noon. I will return to multi day fasting at some point, but for now this method seems to be working well. I still seem to have a very slight cold, so I will wait for a couple of weeks at least until that has gone before I try a deliberate multi day fast. This will give me a lot more time to research the pros and cons of that approach.

My weight is still dropping fairly quickly, so I am happy with my progress, and my home tests of blood pressure are a lot better, now generally reading around 135/80. This could be the Ramipril, or it could be a combination of that, weight loss and exercise.

I am exercising steadily and consistently every day, and have started some high intensity exercise today to bring the BG down further. This seems to have an effect on the meter, so I will keep doing this every day at intervals. My general fitness and stamina appears to be improving, and I am now running up and down the stairs rather than hauling myself up them using the bannisters and walking sideways down them to ease the strain on my knees.

I have also seen a marked improvement in aches and pains, and my index finger on my right had is now pain free and not swollen - it was very painful every few days, and swollen with a lot of tenderness on the first knuckle. I have long had a theory that sugar and processed carbs cause inflammation, and this is one more piece of the puzzle slotting into place. My left knee is also problem free, and was very painful for the last few months - walking was painful and difficult after around 10-15 minutes.

Day 15 - Weight: 113.4 kilos / BMI 36.9 / Waist to Height Ratio: 66%

7.21am - FBG: 5.6
9.07am - DP: 6.0
12.47pm - Under 5.2: 5.1
2.05 - Pre-meal: 5.2
4.03pm - Post-meal (2hrs): 6.4
5.13pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 5.8
12.14am - Bedtime: 5.3

Meal: Salmon with cucumber, yellow pepper, olives, avocado, coleslaw, bacon and cheese. Pork scratchings, walnuts and hazelnuts. Coffee with coconut cream, oxo with double cream in boiling water, all other fluids water.

I am adding a couple of twists of himalayan pink salt to meals to increase my salt intake.

Carbs: 21.6g
Protein: 97.4g
Fat: 142.3g
Cals: 1757

Length of Fast: 22hrs 40mins
Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
Today's Average BG Reading: 5.3
Breathalyser reading: 0.27% BAC

Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
39.9 - Day 8
39.6 - Day 9
39.4 - Day 10
39.3 - Day 11
39.3 - Day 12
39.2 - Day 13
38.9 - Day 14
38.8 - Day 15

I suspect that doing more readings whilst intermittently fasting has probably skewed this a little downwards.
 
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Results for Week 2 of the fasting Experiment to lower BG

Average FBG Wk 1: 6.2
Average FBG Wk 2: 5.4

Longest time fasted: 63 hours 12 mins
Shortest time fasted: 11 hours 6 mins
Average length of time fasted: 33 hours 41 mins
Number of meals over 7 days: 5

HbA1c (lab) 39 days before start of experiment: 82.0 (9.7%/12.8 mmol/L)
Est HbA1c (mySugr) Day 1: 41.9 (6.0%/7.0 mmol/L)
Est HbA1c (mySugr) Day 8: 39.9 (5.8%/6.7 mmol/L)
Est HbA1c (mySugr) Day 15: 38.8 (5.7%/6.5 mmol/L)

Weight/BMI Day 1 minus 52 days: 129.7 kilos (285.8lb/20st 5.8lb)/42.2
Previously unmonitored eating, high carb.
Removed processed carbs while waiting for diagnosis.
Switched to MCMF diet, carbs < 250g.

Weight/BMI Day 1 minus 39 days: 124.6 kilos (274.6lb/19st 8.6lb)/40.6
Switched to LCHF diet after diagnosis. Carbs < 100g.

Weight/BMI Day 1: 118.5 kilos (261.2lb/18st 9.2lb)/38.6
Switched to experiment protocol of fasting till BG dropped into target range.

Weight/BMI Day 8: 115.7 kilos (255lbs/18st 3lb)/37.7
LCHF diet, carbs < 20g.
Eating to target range on BG meter.
Target range < 6.0 mmol/L, then < 5.2 mmol/L from Day 5.

Weight/BMI Day 15: 113.4 kilos (250lbs/17st 12lb)/36.9
LCHF diet, carbs < 20g.
Eating to target range/then OMAD from Day 11 due to a cold raising BG.
Target range from Day 8 < 5.0 mmol/L.

Weight/BMI Lost Wk 1: 2.8 kilos (6.2lbs)/0.9
Weight/BMI Lost Wk 2: 2.3 kilos (5.0lbs)/0.8
Weight/ BMI Total Lost: 5.1 kilos (11.2lb)/1.7

Waist to Height Ratio Day 1: 71%
Waist to Height Ratio Day 8: 67%
Waist to Height Ratio Day 15: 66%

Body Fat:
Day 15: 48.4%

Visceral Fat:
Day 15: 18

Muscle Mass:
Day 15: 121.2 lb

Metabolic Age (I am 51):
Day 15: 58

The last week has been interesting. I found that after Monday I just didn't see readings low enough to break the fast. I persisted until Thursday morning, and then broke the fast, as I was eating out on Friday night and didn't want that to be when I started eating again.

My BG levels were raised a little over the week, although they were a little flatter because of the fasting. I had a slight sniffle for several days, so I think I have had a cold, which is nearly gone, and that the BG levels were slightly raised as a result.

Interestingly, although my BG was a little higher during the day in week 2, my fasting BG actually came down over the week, coming down from pre-diabetic to normal levels.

The BG readings are starting to come down now, and I had my second 4.9 since I started measuring BG when I did my bedtime reading last night. I will be waiting to see when I go under 5.0 today to see if I can carry on the experiment where it left off. I may do this experiment for a month and then switch to using one meal a day (OMAD) so that I can stabilise my mealtimes to late mornings as that is the best time for me to eat. I will be flexible, however, and see how I feel.
 
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I had a little breakthrough today - I hit 4.8 this morning, which is the lowest reading I have had so far - along with 2 x 4.9's a week or two apart.

I feel like I am making good progress with this way of eating, and I am still feeling good on one meal a day so far. I have experiences a little tiredness over the last few days, which is probably due more to pushing the exercise a little more, and still not really getting enough sleep every night.

I am continuing with the meditation class every Thursday evening, and this is proving very useful in reducing my stress levels. I feel less stressed now than I have felt in a long time. Partly this may also be because I am feeling more in control of my life and not worrying about anything.

My weight has been stable for 3 days, but I tend to have a mini plateau every few days, probably due to building muscle, and this will resolve probably tomorrow or Thursday. I am slowly losing my bingo wings and there is a fair bit of muscle lurking under the podge these days.

I couldn't resist boiled eggs and bacon for my meal today due to reading about @bulkbiker 's egg fast yesterday!

Day 16 - Weight: 113.4 kilos / BMI 36.9 / Waist to Height Ratio: 66%

6.30am - FBG: 5.7
7.31am - DP: 6.0
11.59pm - Under 5.2: 4.8
12.41pm - Pre-meal: 5.6
3.06pm - Post-meal (2hrs): 5.7
3.38pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 6.1
12.41am - Bedtime: 6.6

Meal: Boiled eggs and bacon with cucumber, yellow pepper, olives, avocado, soft cheese and double gloucester cheese. Pecans, walnuts and hazelnuts. Coffee with coconut cream, all other fluids water.

I am adding a couple of twists of himalayan pink salt to meals to increase my salt intake.

Carbs: 19.2g
Protein: 80.7g
Fat: 138.7g
Cals: 1645

Length of Fast: 23hrs 53mins
Average BG Before Fasting Experiment: 7.0
Today's Average BG Reading: 5.9
Breathalyser reading: 0.19% BAC

Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
39.9 - Day 8
38.8 - Day 15
38.6 - Day 16

I suspect that doing more readings whilst intermittently fasting has probably skewed this a little downwards.
 
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What a fantastic result. All your hard work is paying off. Well done. It's very interesting being able to read all ypur results too. Thanks for sharing.
 
My fasting blood glucose was 5.8 this morning, one tenth of a point up on yesterday. I am pleased with that as late last night I decided to do a test to see how my body handled carbs from fruit. I may have been influenced by a very large box of strawberries from Marks and Spencers sitting in the fridge, and the discovery of a much lower carb double cream from lovely Jersey cows in Cornwall. Another influence was reading a post yesterday where the poster (@andcol) had added carbs and used exercise to bring his blood sugar down, and was able to eventually eat relatively normally: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/got-my-first-3-month-hba1c-results-this-morning.55719/

I have found a relatively similar strawberry incident on the 11th May:

160g of strawberries
100g Olympus greek yoghurt
Carbs: 13.6g

FBG 11/05/18: 7.4
Est HbA1c (my spreadsheet) from day's BG readings: 40
Average BG for the day: 6.6
6.51pm - Pre-meal: 5.8
9.02pm - Post-meal (2 hr): 7.2
Rise at 2 hours post-meal of +1.4 mmol/L
FBG 12/05/18: 7.3

Here are the figures for the baseline experiment yesterday:

200g of strawberries - first fruit since 3rd June
110g of Olympus greek yoghurt
30ml of M & S Cornish Gold double cream (1.6 carbs/100ml) - my new go to double cream
Carbs: 14.9g

FBG 19/06/18: 5.7
Est HbA1c (my spreadsheet) from day's BG readings: 35
Average BG for the day: 5.9
9.17pm - Pre-meal: 5.3
9.51pm - Post-meal: (0.5hr): 5.5
10.25pm - Post-meal (1 hr): 6.8
10.48pm - Post-meal (1.5 hr): 7.5
11.14pm - Post-meal (2 hr): 6.1
Rise at 2 hours post-meal of +0.8 mmol/L
FBG 20/06/18: 5.8

My first findings are that they were delicious, and the greek yoghurt mixed with the double cream was amazing.

I was very happy with the BG readings as I had expected a much bigger spike and I was surprised to see the BG so low so late as eating anything after around 1.30pm seems to result in a 2 hour reading of around 1.2-1.9 mmol/L up on the pre-meal reading.

This is going to be my baseline and I will repeat the "Strawberry Protocol" in a month or so to see whether there as any difference in the way I deal with the carbs. It is a rather crude experiment, but a delicious one.

My weight is still fairly stable and I have noticed that I am eating a little more. I am going to a barbecue with relatives on Thursday so given the rather larger intake of food yesterday, I am taking today as a fast day, and breaking my fast with the barbecue on Thursday afternoon. I am still having some issues with portion size, so I am stepping back on the food for a day to see if that helps with control of both BG and with eating an appropriate portion size.

The fast day did not work - I forgot just how stressful Wednesdays can be, and ate in the late afternoon, but only a fairly light meal. When I got home I was still very stressed, and ended up emotionally eating. The good news was that it was low carb and not too many calories, so I cut down the portion sizes today successfully, and did not overeat, in spite of the emotional stressors.

A new start tomorrow. The BG readings today were a little higher than usual, mainly die to a very stressful day, but I am sure they will keep on their downward trajectory anyway.

Day 17 - Weight: 113.0 kilos / BMI 36.8 / Waist to Height Ratio: 66%

6.30am - FBG: 5.8
7.30am - DP: 5.6
? - Under 5.2: This didn't happen - I realise I have huge stress on Wednesdays, and broke the fast
3.51pm - Pre-meal: 5.2
? - Post-meal (2hrs): ?
6.23pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 6.3
12.15am - Bedtime: 6.6

Meal: Romaine lettuce "sandwiches" with Philadelphia, tomato, smoked mackerel and coriander. Bacon, sausage and egg later on. Coffee with double cream, all other fluids water.

I am adding a couple of twists of himalayan pink salt to meals to increase my salt intake.

Carbs: 12.5g
Protein: 94.3g
Fat: 143.7g
Cals: 1721

Length of Fast: 18hrs 34mins
Average BG Before Fasting Experiment: 7.0
Today's Average BG Reading: 6.1
Breathalyser reading: 0.0% BAC

Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
39.9 - Day 8
38.8 - Day 15
38.6 - Day 16
38.5 - Day 17

I suspect that doing more readings whilst intermittently fasting has probably skewed this a little downwards.
 
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A 0.1 chnage is not meaningful even if BG is measured at a lab, our meters can never be trusted to correctly measure a change that small.
 


Oh Mighty praises to you.

I like to be in your state.

I had been T2 for 30 odd years now. All meds only temporary reduce but didn't stay at that level.

Just a month ago, decided to radical change. Adopt a low carbs but no high fat diet. Do water fasting but only lunch fasting. Lost 10kg within one month. Staple diet of beans ( chickpeas, soy, kidney, black eyed, lentils, black beans mixed ) and greens like broccoli or spinach or kai lan (similar to kale) and tofu and fish (ocean catch type - farmed ones not that healthy as they might use growth hormones and chemicals in the feed). Just recently started climbing stairs to my flat (12 floors)

I believe my liver need to shed off excess fats so it can function optimal.

Relying on ketones more for better overall metabolism function. Glucose tend to give more problems like fatigue more easily. Increased fats in body. Not efficient fuel energy.

Still a long way for me.

Care to comment, please.
 
Do you know how many carbs a day you are having? A lot of what you eat would cause my bloods to spike.
 
I was not properly informed then. Even now, I guess nothing had changed. Because I do not get anything from my doctor nor anywhere to help my diabetes. I have to go research them.

Then from what I gathered and tried on myself and discover new things that nothing said about that. So what is really going on.

However, I understand that pharmaceutical companies are coming out new and better drugs for T2.

Something is wrong in this picture.
 
@skph do you test your blood sugar levels?
 
ringi said:
A 0.1 chnage is not meaningful even if BG is measured at a lab, our meters can never be trusted to correctly measure a change that small.
Click to expand...

@ringi - you are correct, but what I mainly look at is trends over time, and a steady but gradual drop in BG. For example, I am seeing trends downwards in all my readings. My experiment is hardly scientific, it is just a way of looking at progress and reaching out for peer support, while at the same time sharing my journey. I recognise that the tools we have are rather crude, and provide a snapshot at best.
 
I started off today with 15 minutes of rapid cycling with a pedal exerciser, alternating in 5 minutes sessions between arms and legs. The idea is to see if that helps lower BG through the day.

A bump up in weight today, but that is part of the normal pattern: weight loss is not a linear process, and it is the trends over time that I look at, not what happens day to day. I monitor daily as this can be helpful in detaching the emotion from losing weight, as it is a long process, and there can be struggle with motivation. I have lost 5 stone before, and put it all on again, due to lack of monitoring, and too much of an emotional load on what the scales read. I am merely seeing the daily weight reading as a piece of data that helps to map progress and aid in understanding that the body is a complex thing and often does not behave in the way we expect.

The same goes for BG readings, which undoubtedly will not go in the direction I want sometimes. Again, it is the trends over time that I am looking at, and also looking for trends in flattening of the readings and smaller spikes after meals, rather than stressing about each reading. As was mentioned yesterday, BG meters are not massively accurate, and there can be a big margin for errror. BG can change from fibre to finge, and second to second as the circulatory system is not static and the composition of the blood will be in a state of contact flux.

Today I am going to a family barbecue, so the food will be low carb and the day will be a lot less stressful than yesterday. I will be avoiding alcohol and drinking plenty of water - another issue with Wednesdays, as I tend to be a little lower on my fluid intake as I am busy all day.

The barbecue was great - lots of time catching up, and a good time had by all. I had a small glass of wine, and plenty of protein. I didn't;t take many readings, but they were slightly up, probably due to some conflict over driving style!! I was also very tired by the end of the day, so I suspect my readings were higher as a result.

Carbs were around 40-50 according to a rough estimate, and salt was a lot higher than normal.

Day 18 - Weight: 114.1 kilos / BMI 37.1 / Waist to Height Ratio: 66%

7.10am - FBG: 6.0
8.11am - DP: 6.0
? - Under 5.2: ?
? - Pre-meal: ?
? - Post-meal (2hrs): ?
? - Post-meal (3 hrs): ?
12.57am - Bedtime: 7.0

Meal: A barbecue. My salad: cucumber, peppers, avocado, nuts, red onion. Meat: gammon, chicken and a small burger. Pork scratchings. Coffee with double cream, red wine, all other fluids water.

I am adding a couple of twists of himalayan pink salt to meals to increase my salt intake (not today - too much salt already).

Carbs: est 40-40g
Protein: ?g
Fat: ?g
Cals: ?

Length of Fast: 25hrs ?mins
Average BG Before Fasting Experiment: 7.0
Today's Average BG Reading: 6.3
Breathalyser reading: 0.0% BAC

Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
39.9 - Day 8
38.8 - Day 15
38.6 - Day 16
38.5 - Day 17
38.5 - Day 18

I suspect that doing more readings whilst intermittently fasting has probably skewed this a little downwards.
 
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Quite a weird day. I went back to bed after I got up, and slept until 2pm. I have been getting by on not enough sleep for a few weeks now, and I found myself rather tired on Thursday evening. This had a knock-on effect on bedtime today, so I will have to get to bed early tomorrow.

My weight went up a lot as a result of lots of salt on Thursday, leading to water retention. Over the next few days this will come off, particularly if the water is upped.

I went out for a curry, and had no problem with making healthy low carb/high fat choices. We watched a movie afterwards, which is part of the stress reduction program, to make tome for relaxing and spending time with the family.

Day 19 - Weight: 115.4 kilos / BMI 37.6 / Waist to Height Ratio: 66%

7.29am - FBG: 6.2
8.27am - DP: 6.5
? - Under 5.2: This didn't happen, and I ate out in the evening with my family
6.56pm - Pre-meal: 5.6
9.12pm - Post-meal (2hrs): 6.8
? - Post-meal (3 hrs): ?
3.16am - Bedtime: 6.4

Meal: Chicken tikka, chicken makhani, green salad. Pork scratchings, olives, guacamole, soft cheese. Coffee with double cream, all other fluids water.

I am adding a couple of twists of himalayan pink salt to meals to increase my salt intake (not today - too much salt already).

Carbs: est 25g
Protein: est 130.9g
Fat: est 202.3g
Cals: est 2466

Length of Fast: 25hrs ?mins
Average BG Before Fasting Experiment: 7.0
Today's Average BG Reading: 6.5
Breathalyser reading: 0.0% BAC

Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
39.9 - Day 8
38.8 - Day 15
38.6 - Day 16
38.5 - Day 17
38.5 - Day 18
38.5 - Day 19

I suspect that doing more readings whilst intermittently fasting has probably skewed this a little downwards.
 
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I woke up this morning feeling a little less tired, and determined to get back to some exercise today. I had a day off yesterday due to feeling very tired, so I will start again, and gradually work my way up to more over the next week.

Day 20 - Weight: 114.4 kilos / BMI 37.2 / Waist to Height Ratio: 66%

8.57am - FBG: 6.4
10.23am - DP: 7.2
? - Under 5.2: this didn't happen - ate in order to stick with OMAD in early afternoon to lower BG
12.31pm - Pre-meal: 7.1
2.30pm - Post-meal (2hrs): 5.9
3.35pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 6.7
12.31am - Bedtime: 6.6

Meal: Pork belly, bacon, romaine lettuce, guacamole, Philadelphia, yellow and red pepper, cucumber, avocado, walnuts, pecans, almonds. Coffee with coconut cream/double cream all other fluids water.

I am adding a couple of twists of himalayan pink salt to meals to increase my salt intake (not today - too much salt already).

Carbs: 16.3g
Protein: 82.3g
Fat: 141.7g
Cals: 1667

Length of Fast: 17hrs 25mins
Average BG Before Fasting Experiment: 7.0
Today's Average BG Reading: 6.7
Breathalyser reading: 0.26% BAC

mySugr estimated HbA1c:

41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
39.9 - Day 8
38.8 - Day 15
38.6 - Day 16
38.5 - Day 17
38.5 - Day 18
38.5 - Day 19
38.5 - Day 20
 
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ringi said:
Are you taking any drugs that lower blood pressure?
Click to expand...

Yes, I am on a low dose of Ramipril, which has brought my BP down to normal levels in a couple of weeks.
 
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bulkbiker said:
If you're anything like me its probably the fasting and dietary changes that have done that rather than the drugs..
Click to expand...

Yes, I did wonder if the changes in my way of eating had something to do with it, but I don't know. If it is the Ramipril that is making me so tired, I will ask about coming off it as soon as possible. It seems to be a very common side effect, and I have noticed a huge dip in my energy levels since I started taking it.
 
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My BP lowered a lot after weight loss and lower BG levels.
I think they were considered medications (which I would have refused anyway) as I seem to have quite severe white cost syndrome. After a 24 hour monitor I was at the very top end of "normal" but now am pretty much fine.
Edit to add.. maybe try a week without to see what happens?
 
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