We die. Seriously?!

[JoKalsbeek]

Good morning all,

While I was going through my newspaper this morning, (Het Algemeen Dagblad, https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/nieuw-...tes-hebben-lagere-levensverwachting~a531419f/ and the study itself, alas, also in Dutch https://www.diabetesfonds.nl/over-d...-diabetes-hebben-een-lagere-levensverwachting ), I found an article saying that diabetics die early, according to a new Dutch study. And it didn't matter whether it was T1 or T2, but it depended on one's complications/blood sugar control. Say it with me: "No ****, Sherlock!"

By the end of the piece, I was seeing red. They did a study to prove this?! They pumped valuable research grant money into that?! Like we didn't already know! Why not do a study how to help people gain good blood sugar control? That'd be one heck of a lot more useful than the usual doom and gloom we encounter!

...So I just wrote a piece to the paper's editors telling them about my journey as a T2, how there was practically no support for low carb in T2's in the Netherlands and I had to look abroad, how the medical professionals around me all told me this wouldn't work as I'd probably lack the spine, or it'd kill me... The editors'll likely trash my e-mail, but I just had to say something.

We die. Sure. We all do, eventually. But if there's even a chance the paper'll do something with my reply, and some other diabetic reader picks up on it and gives it a go, they might not die as soon as they otherwise would have. One can live in hope, right?

Just having a bit of a vent, sorry. But just, you know... Really?
Love,
Jo

 

[bulkbiker]

Many of these "studies" just seem to be done to keep academics in jobs..

There was a recent one published about Ultra Processed Foods by Kevin Hall which seemed to say that although there were very bad they had a place in the modern diet!

Just goes to show that not everyone with a PhD is necessary "smart".

 

[Ronancastled]

Unfortunately the medical profession turn slower than supertankers.
Even outliers like Fung, Halberg, Unwin etc. are seen as quacks by some of their colleagues.
It's like watching a slow motion car crash with the standard dietary advice being peddled.
Never allowing patients attack the root cause thus ensuring progression should be called out as malpractice but wont be.

Saddest thing I read was a Canadian Physician documenting a low carb program where some of the participants were in awe of their new found remission & questioned why this advice wasn't the first thing they heard post diagnosis.

 

[In Response]

Unfortunately the medical profession turn slower than supertankers.

I find this perception sad.
In my experience, the truth is many people within the medical profession are very open to change, some actively push it, some are sceptical and look for more proof, some are not interested and many are so over worked they don't have time to stop and think and read about alternatives so have to rely on what they have been doing.
Comparing the whole medical profession with supertankers is unnecessary. I certainly would be upset if I was told "The diabetes community don't manage their condition".

 

[Antje77]

I found an article saying that diabetics die early, according to a new Dutch study.

It's all over the news as if it's a surprise, and what's worse, it's all over every Dutch diabetes Facebook group because people seem to be flabbergasted that having a disease which basically kills your blood vessels if it's not well controlled may shorten their life expectancy!

I mean, what did they think before? That diabetic complications would mean they would live longer?

 

[JoKalsbeek]

It's all over the news as if it's a surprise, and what's worse, it's all over every Dutch diabetes Facebook group because people seem to be flabbergasted that having a disease which basically kills your blood vessels if it's not well controlled may shorten their life expectancy!

I mean, what did they think before? That diabetic complications would mean they would live longer?

And all the outlets say Type 1 is an autoimmune condition, and Type 2 is due to a bad lifestyle/eating habit... Yeah, us gluttons willingly did this to ourselves. Urgh. At least they got half of it right. (But again, it's like there's just two types! ***?!) My mom doesn't understand half of what I've told her about T2, but even she was livid when she saw the news ticker tape this morning. Pseudo-news like this just throws more misinformation into the world while stating the obvious, and really... I do wish they'd used that money for something that was of real use.

 

[Bubbleblower]

At least the article mentions the continuing innovative research I was so enthousiastic about in my very first post. (Faecal microbiota transplantation halts progression of human new-onset type 1 diabetes in a randomised controlled trial)

Of course the research wasn’t about diabetics dying earlier (the newspaper editor is an idiot, you can check that in 5 minutes with CBS data) but about the exact cause and the direct relation to blood sugar control. If you manage to stay in range most complications can be avoided, that’s also the Consensus on Time In Range.

 

[Erin]

Good morning all,

While I was going through my newspaper this morning, (Het Algemeen Dagblad, https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/nieuw-...tes-hebben-lagere-levensverwachting~a531419f/ and the study itself, alas, also in Dutch https://www.diabetesfonds.nl/over-d...-diabetes-hebben-een-lagere-levensverwachting ), I found an article saying that diabetics die early, according to a new Dutch study. And it didn't matter whether it was T1 or T2, but it depended on one's complications/blood sugar control. Say it with me: "No ****, Sherlock!"

By the end of the piece, I was seeing red. They did a study to prove this?! They pumped valuable research grant money into that?! Like we didn't already know! Why not do a study how to help people gain good blood sugar control? That'd be one heck of a lot more useful than the usual doom and gloom we encounter!

...So I just wrote a piece to the paper's editors telling them about my journey as a T2, how there was practically no support for low carb in T2's in the Netherlands and I had to look abroad, how the medical professionals around me all told me this wouldn't work as I'd probably lack the spine, or it'd kill me... The editors'll likely trash my e-mail, but I just had to say something.

We die. Sure. We all do, eventually. But if there's even a chance the paper'll do something with my reply, and some other diabetic reader picks up on it and gives it a go, they might not die as soon as they otherwise would have. One can live in hope, right?

Just having a bit of a vent, sorry. But just, you know... Really?
Love,
Jo

Hee! Good for you. I don't have a "medical team". I get most of my advice from the net and here. I understand that hospitals are overwhelmed, esp. now, but it has always been like this here in one of the richest countries in the world-- Canada. Possibly hospitals are not autonomous enough and regulated by bureaurocratic constraints and an inadequate budget. I got help from my pharmacist, who first discovered I was diabetic (started seeing fog, slept all the time, etc.) measuring 30. He directed me to the hospital. The hospital did their best by hiring a doctor to introduce diabetics in a one day lecture, with notes for us; that was good.

What is on my wish list for diabetics, is a diabetic corner in grocery stores.

 

[Hotpepper20000]

What is on my wish list for diabetics, is a diabetic corner in grocery stores.

What would you need in that corner for diabetics?

 

[Lamont D]

Good morning all,

While I was going through my newspaper this morning, (Het Algemeen Dagblad, https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/nieuw-...tes-hebben-lagere-levensverwachting~a531419f/ and the study itself, alas, also in Dutch https://www.diabetesfonds.nl/over-d...-diabetes-hebben-een-lagere-levensverwachting ), I found an article saying that diabetics die early, according to a new Dutch study. And it didn't matter whether it was T1 or T2, but it depended on one's complications/blood sugar control. Say it with me: "No ****, Sherlock!"

By the end of the piece, I was seeing red. They did a study to prove this?! They pumped valuable research grant money into that?! Like we didn't already know! Why not do a study how to help people gain good blood sugar control? That'd be one heck of a lot more useful than the usual doom and gloom we encounter!

...So I just wrote a piece to the paper's editors telling them about my journey as a T2, how there was practically no support for low carb in T2's in the Netherlands and I had to look abroad, how the medical professionals around me all told me this wouldn't work as I'd probably lack the spine, or it'd kill me... The editors'll likely trash my e-mail, but I just had to say something.

We die. Sure. We all do, eventually. But if there's even a chance the paper'll do something with my reply, and some other diabetic reader picks up on it and gives it a go, they might not die as soon as they otherwise would have. One can live in hope, right?

Just having a bit of a vent, sorry. But just, you know... Really?
Love,
Jo

Hi Jo,
I wish I could rant as good as that and in Dutch as well!
I wish I could tell all about my battle to still be here and tell those who advocate that it can be treated and that the food we eat, can be killing us, or as the article says, take years off our lives. Then I could stop yelling at the television!
By all medical history, familial history, environmental, and probably every study done, I should not be writing this, in fact it should have been fifteen years ago (ish)
When I worked in industry, we had a monthly newspaper and the most read was the obituary column. We used to joke to each other how common it was that so many died within a year after retiring. I retired from there nearly fifteen years ago.

But my main concern about all this is, that the media won't splash it all over, the successful patients that defy the odds, and have a good retirement, despite having diabetes along with other conditions that would certainly be fatal.

And I will add, even though the government have only the interest of the economy, money before lives, our NHS has been unbelievable and deserve much more than they are being treated.
I do believe that the majority of health care workers have their patients welfare and do as much as time allows. And because of the training and education, and an interest in certain conditions, that, they follow NHS guidelines. Which as we all know, follow the usual nonsense about carbs.

Rant away! It can only be good.

 

[Bubbleblower]

Unfortunately it turns out I was way too optimistic, I just read what I want to read.
This so called research is part of a fundraising campagne and commissioned by the Dutch Diabetes Research Foundation.
It is purposely flawed to get the headline results they wanted.

1. They used the d-base for 1st line care.
Of course the mortality rate in this group will be higher than average.
2. Then they took mortality data and looked who was registered as diabetes patient on 1 January.
So everybody who died from or with diabetes.
3. Then they used an algoritm to decide who had type 1 or type 2.

This was all done by the “RIVM” a government institute which is more political than scientific.
The worst part is people might believe these results (type 1s supposively have a 13 year shorter lifespan) that are in all the media and get seriously depressed.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Unfortunately it turns out I was way too optimistic, I just read what I want to read.
This so called research is part of a fundraising campagne and commissioned by the Dutch Diabetes Research Foundation.
It is purposely flawed to get the headline results they wanted.

1. They used the d-base for 1st line care.
Of course the mortality rate in this group will be higher than average.
2. Then they took mortality data and looked who was registered as diabetes patient on 1 January.
So everybody who died from or with diabetes.
3. Then they used an algoritm to decide who had type 1 or type 2.

This was all done by the “RIVM” a government institute which is more political than scientific.
The worst part is people might believe these results (type 1s supposively have a 13 year shorter lifespan) that are in all the media and get seriously depressed.

The RIVM is something the Dutch never really heard of until Covid struck. I guess you'd compare it to the CDC. And the Dutch foundation doesn't get a dime from me anymore, once I found out what idiots they are. Why. Not. Something. Helpful. AAAAARGH!

 

[Erin]

What would you need in that corner for diabetics?

What would you need in that corner for diabetics?

I would like prepared diabetic-friendly meals.

 

[Antje77]

I would like prepared diabetic-friendly meals.

Some diabetics eat low carb or keto (as is usual for most people on here) but others want to follow the eatwell plate or need an exact amount of carbs to balance their meds.
Just look what is supposed to be a diabetic meal in hospital, all complex carbs, low fat, low salt.
So if supermarkets follow official advice on suitable foods for diabetics your corner would actually raise blood glucose for everyone who would think those diabetic meals are suitable for them.

 

[Ronancastled]

Do you know what I'd love to see . . . A special low carb section in Supermarkets.
Might see it in 5 years, there'll be a cure then anyway

 

[lucylocket61]

Do you know what I'd love to see . . . A special low carb section in Supermarkets.
Might see it in 5 years, there'll be a cure then anyway

Are they not known as the meat, dairy and veg sections?

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Are they not known as the meat, dairy and veg sections?

They wouldn't be "prepared" though... That's the from-scratch stuff. So I do kind of see the point. There's a lot of low carbers who have other ailments that make it difficult to prepare their own meals. Ready-made would be convenient.

 

[Oldvatr]

They wouldn't be "prepared" though... That's the from-scratch stuff. So I do kind of see the point. There's a lot of low carbers who have other ailments that make it difficult to prepare their own meals. Ready-made would be convenient.

I sometimes microwave a ready meal because it is quicker, needs no major preparation, and keeps for months in the freezer. i used to get single portion readymeals from Aldi, but they have dropped the lines and now only do family meals in the chillfood section. These have more added sugars in them for the kiddies, and yes, the cartoon characters are back (dead giveaway that).

 

[NicoleC1971]

Okay you've stated me up....
I need to get the source for this but apparently in the UK remission from type 2 is at a piffling 0.25% so feel special if you are in the 1 in 400 club. The billons that get spend on 'foodable' disease like this is almost as shocking as the mortality stats.
Then watch out for promotion of remission via the diet shakes or bariatric surgery (Diabetes UK are promoting remission awareness apparently but low carb isn't getting much of a mention).
I do think big food/big pharma rub their hands in glee as the plant based diet people duke it out with low carbers on the topic of what is the best way to eat. I think we can at least agree that ultra processed food and drugs to treat symptoms only are not cutting it.
And yes we all eat the odd ping dinner or nachos but I think it is what you do most of the time that counts.

 

[ickihun]

Good morning all,

While I was going through my newspaper this morning, (Het Algemeen Dagblad, https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/nieuw-...tes-hebben-lagere-levensverwachting~a531419f/ and the study itself, alas, also in Dutch https://www.diabetesfonds.nl/over-d...-diabetes-hebben-een-lagere-levensverwachting ), I found an article saying that diabetics die early, according to a new Dutch study. And it didn't matter whether it was T1 or T2, but it depended on one's complications/blood sugar control. Say it with me: "No ****, Sherlock!"

By the end of the piece, I was seeing red. They did a study to prove this?! They pumped valuable research grant money into that?! Like we didn't already know! Why not do a study how to help people gain good blood sugar control? That'd be one heck of a lot more useful than the usual doom and gloom we encounter!

...So I just wrote a piece to the paper's editors telling them about my journey as a T2, how there was practically no support for low carb in T2's in the Netherlands and I had to look abroad, how the medical professionals around me all told me this wouldn't work as I'd probably lack the spine, or it'd kill me... The editors'll likely trash my e-mail, but I just had to say something.

We die. Sure. We all do, eventually. But if there's even a chance the paper'll do something with my reply, and some other diabetic reader picks up on it and gives it a go, they might not die as soon as they otherwise would have. One can live in hope, right?

Just having a bit of a vent, sorry. But just, you know... Really?
Love,
Jo

We still need these studies for medical student. Especially those who know no one with diabetes or aren't made aware of a diabetic in their circles and what they go through everyday. There are still huge numbers of people ignorant to diabetes. Sorry but true. Sad too eh?