Who has had depression due to low carbing?

[viv1969]

I am really struggling to understand how a supposed health professional of any kind (let alone a doctor) can come up with the phrase "low carbing causes depression,in ALL patients, which never goes away."

That's like saying every single person who ever smoked will get cancer, or every single person who has ever eaten a Mars bar will become obese. Absolutely bizarre.

I can only assume that this particular doctor is in the employ of some organisation with thier own pro-carb agenda.

 

[hanadr]

I never heard how the glucose gets to the brain. they guy who told me this obviously wasn't a scientist, he'd have questioned more if he were.
As to high fat diets. Low carb needs to be high fat and Dr. Robert Atkins [yes that Atkins!] was a cardiologist who developed his diet for his sick obese patients. It worked for them, however I don't know how many rats he was treating.
A lot of the Rat or Mouse research has fundemental flaws. First the poor little beasties are BRED FOR certain conditions, then fed NON rat/mouse food until they die. This apparently "Proves" that the diet CAUSED their deaths and will do the same for humans.
I'd like to see some figures on how well those rats/mice do if fed normal rat/mouse food; or areALLOWED TO FORRAGE NATURALLY.
iN NATURE, rats are very clever at avoiding harmful foods. They have more sense than humans. That's why they are so common.
PS I like rats and have had pet ones. I wouldn't keep a pet researcher :evil:
Hana

 

[IanD]

No depression here either - though when first diagnosed, & told everything that would go wrong, I was in a state of shock for several months. I was too shocked NOT to follow the DUK diet recommendations. Then when the predicted complications set in & I was afraid of becoming disabled, I was depressed.

Then I went low carb - thanks to this forum. Depression - & complications - went out the window with the carbs.

 

[IanD]

The only thing potentially depressing about low carb is the DUK attitude, & seeing people who know how much better I am from low carb continuing to eat substantial amounts of carb - & deteriorating as a result.

 

[noblehead]

The only thing potentially depressing about low carb is the DUK attitude, & seeing people who know how much better I am from low carb continuing to eat substantial amounts of carb - & deteriorating as a result.

Are all people that eat carbs deteriorating Ian?

I eat carbs as part of a healthy well balanced diet and can assure you I am far from deteriorating, I've never felt healthier than I do now since I was in my early 20's

 

[claymic]

I was verging on getting depression again before i decided to take control of my diabetes and my eating. the reason was that i was binging on so much food that i was tired all the time and was waking up about 3 times during the night. Also it was the whole vicious circle of binge eating - feeling sorry for self - eat some more to feel better...etc...etc..

After two weeks clothes are fitting better, i am in control, i can see the BS going down a bit, i am sleeping through the night, i am experimenting with things and cooking new stuff...so hey...life is good

 

[LittleGreyCat]

On Monday, I went up to Diabetes Uk in London, to work on the new on-line tool. I think it will be good once it's up and running and I'll keep people informed.
As usual, lunch was wraps or filled rolls. I ate the fillings and the bottom of 1 roll with an eggy something on. I couldn't easily get the egg without the roll!
<snip>

Hana,

when I go up to Diabetes UK I always tell them that I am on a low carb diet and they manage to produce something to suit.
I always find it bizzarre thet they have loads of sandwiches and stuff for lunch, although a significant number of attendees are T1 so have different dietary requirements.
Reminds me of the lunch counter at supermarkets - sandwiches, fruit, fruit juice. All on my "reduce or avoid" list.

If they are buying in from M&S I get a salad with tuna.
Last time they used a caterer, who did me chicken strips on a chopped salad.
Both very nice and well suited to my diet.

Cheers

LGC

[Oh, forgot to mention, last time I was there was the day they launched their new brand image. There were loads of cup cakes in the new colours to celebrate.]

 

[snowy_barks]

That is one of the most stupid things anyone could say, never mind a doctor!

I have low carbed since diagnosis and the weight is dropping of me. I sleep better, my digestion is better. An old shoulder injury no longer aches. I wish I had done it years ago.

The only carb I really miss is beer!

I honestly think that because it is diet that is relatively easy to follow for a lot of people, others think there must be something wrong with it. I eat loads of tasty food and I am losing weight. I have tried to explain this to work colleagues but they all seem to think that you must eat bread and pasta.

 

[IanD]

The only thing potentially depressing about low carb is the DUK attitude, & seeing people who know how much better I am from low carb continuing to eat substantial amounts of carb - & deteriorating as a result.

Are all people that eat carbs deteriorating Ian?
I haven't got access to "all people" but I'm referring to people, diabetics, I know.

I eat carbs as part of a healthy well balanced diet and can assure you I am far from deteriorating, I've never felt healthier than I do now since I was in my early 20's
Presumably your diet is OK for you.

 

[noblehead]

I haven't got access to "all people" but I'm referring to people, diabetics, I know.

Thanks for that Ian I just needed to get that straight as a lot of diabetics on this forum include carbs in their meals

 

[IanD]

I haven't got access to "all people" but I'm referring to people, diabetics, I know.

Thanks for that Ian I just needed to get that straight as a lot of diabetics on this forum include carbs in their meals

"Indians eat rice, chapattis, samosas, etc" all savoury carbs. "You need sugar for energy" said an overweight & very inactive lady. But when I visit, they give me the low carb option.

Only yesterday I was offered cake & vegetable samosas, as eaten by our diabetic host. They did have a nut& raisin mix for me, so they know. Our hostess has had a series of eye ops.

"You have to die of something" - a man in his late 40s, whose parent do control their diet carefully.

And a hospital nurse carrying out the screening tests for heart/diabetes/stroke (LOLIPOP) had no questions about diet (except alcohol). (Not her fault.) I insisted on talking about low carb & its benefits (I'm a low carb bore) so she said, "what do you eat?" incredulously. A study of 30,000 potentially at risk elderly folk & NO diet questions.

 

[phoenix]

"Indians eat rice, chapattis, samosas, etc" all savoury carbs. "You need sugar for energy" said an overweight & very inactive lady. But when I visit, they give me the low carb option.

Only yesterday I was offered cake & vegetable samosas, as eaten by our diabetic host. They did have a nut& raisin mix for me, so they know. Our hostess has had a series of eye op

Ian
Would the low carb diet you eat be necessarily appropriate within the context of an Asian diet.?
A moderately low carb diet as used in the UK in the 70s didn't work well with people in Madras . It wasn't easy to integrate into the local diet (cereal based and mainly vegan) , people couldn't eat with their families, it was expensive and so people gave up on their diets. .
What was successful was a very high carb/very high fibre diet/ moderate protein /low fat diet based on the local diet.( It would still exclude a lot of samosas because of the fat content and also because refined carbs were totally prohibited. (lots of pulses+ whole grain rice/cereal, lots of veggies, ...including the famous 'bitter gourd')
It has worked very well with records showing good results for patients over many years . You can read some of the papers here (though not all fully available :Mohan, Viswanathan. A later paper (2010) looks at the changes in the local diet to refined higher GI starches and their possible role in the present cardiovascular/diabetes epidemic in India.
http://mdrf-eprints.in/view/subjects/dia800.html

 

[xyzzy]

Thanks for that Ian I just needed to get that straight as a lot of diabetics on this forum include carbs in their meals

But the large majority are not including that many noblehead.

The poll that was set up last year on the forum now has 336 votes of which 65% of people are saying they are on Low carb or ULC carb diets of less than 130g / day diets with just 23% on carb intakes greater than 130g. Even that is a bit misleading as that greater than 130g figure would also include people like Grazer who do a little bit more so we don't actually know how many of the greater than 130g posters would be defined as moderate carbers and how many are higher. For completeness 12% of posters don't count carbs.

 

[catherinecherub]

Thanks for that Ian I just needed to get that straight as a lot of diabetics on this forum include carbs in their meals

But the large majority are not including that many noblehead.

The poll that was set up last year on the forum now has 336 votes of which 65% of people are saying they are on Low carb or ULC carb diets of less than 130g / day diets with just 23% on carb intakes greater than 130g. Even that is a bit misleading as that greater than 130g figure would also include people like Grazer who do a little bit more so we don't actually know how many of the greater than 130g posters would be defined as moderate carbers and how many are higher. For completeness 12% of posters don't count carbs.

The "poll" is not foolproof as you can cast two votes, one when logged in and one when not as has been found.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20719
Definitions of low carb vary on this forum. There is no definitive answer IMHO as if you read other forums and blogs set up specifically for low carbers it would seem that 50 is a low carb diet.
There are some views here about the poll.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21040&p=190621&hilit=poll+low+carb#p190615

I think the competitiveness of numbers, be it blood sugars or carbs, does nothing to help those who are struggling through no fault of their own.

The OP really highlights that there needs to be some markers for what constitutes a low carb diet and whether the fact that most people here have lowered their carbs after diagnosis are now considered to all be low carbers. Does this mean that the lowering of carbs causes the depression or the diagnosis itself is the trigger?

 

[borofergie]

Here is my definition of low-carb: "the level of carbohydrate restriction that allows you to get your BG under control".

The exact number of carbs required to do that will vary from person-to-person. To try and define it using a number like <50g or <100g is a bit silly. We all are different sizes, we all have different levels of activity and our endocrine systems are all broken to various degrees.

The only exception to this is the VLC <30g a day brigade (me included) where we are trying to restrict our carbohydrate enough to keep ourself in ketosis, and even that number will vary from person-to-person.

 

[Unbeliever]

Totally agree wih you Borofergie. I am constantly surprised to find people demanding absolute definitions as though we were all the same.

I can understand it in the newly diagnosed who are left otally bewildered and unsupported but afer a while most of us realise that we mus , indeed, manage the condition for outrselves to suit our bodies and our lifestyle.

I became depressed because of my TREATMENT not because of the diagnosis. I think this applies to many of us.

Since reverting to my pre-diagnosis diet and lifestyle I am again fit and healthy and have lost the weight gained with medication. Unfortunately my pancreas is, I think much depleted by the process and I have suffered complications because of the medication.
Finding one's way hrough the Nhs maze is not easy but I cope with regard to the complications and my hospital treatment because i can see and appreciate many of ttheir problems.

It is a different matter when it comes to my local pracice . I avaoid them as much as possible but they cause me both anxiety iand depresssion as I know I can't trust them and yot they have the power to inflict more problems upon me and to interfere with my present satisfactory control.

tThe only time I really suffered from depression was when I was following all the advice taking all the meds but my levels continued to rise. Then of course, it was my fault. We see so many comng here with this story. Fortunately they find excellent advice here and hose who make sch an effort to provide it should be very proud of themselves.

I remeber reading on here some time ago about the brain producing its own insulin. It may well be that some glucose does go sraight to the brain but until we know more we just have to continue doing whaever works for us. I don;t think eating a diet high in starchy carbs is going to help our brains if our bodies can't cope with hem.

the most disturbing hing about these discussions is not the diasagreements - which can be very informative and stimulaing but
the underlying conviccion that there is only one answer and that everything is black or white.

I f we are happy with how we do things we might want to sahre iour ideas bu why would we want to impose them on others?
Its a particular mndset I suppose.

 

[xyzzy]

I take your point about the poll Catherine. Would point out that the cheat applies to all groups on it so the highs could have got twice as many votes just like the lows. Or look at it this way if everybody who voted did vote twice then the percentages would be the same. As far as I can see there is just the same incentive for a low carber to cheat as a high carber.

The definition I use for LOW carb diet is < 130g and ULC < 30g which are the definitions used internationally I believe. That's the only reason I grouped the poll results in that way. Putting aside the voting cheats then I stand by what I've said which is based on the results of the poll 65% of voters are LOW carbers based on that international definition and an unknown proportion of the 23% who voted higher than 130g would in reality be moderate carbers like Grazer.

What happens on other minor minority view forums (whatever standpoint) isn't relevant in the context of what gets discussed on this forum. Apart from the other "blue" (was "pink") site this is the forum that people look at. It has got 35000 members plus I would guess 000's of other lurkers. To me it's the one that can change things for the better which is why I post on it and not on the other forums.

As for competitiveness then we are going to have to disagree. I think being competitive in whatever is generally a good thing. It makes people strive to become better and is how progress is made. I'm afraid I'm not one of those people who think second best is good, however hard you tried, it means you lost. For instance what good would coming second have done us in WW2. I can't afford to come second in my battle against my condition and will use every advantage I can find to win and daily compete against the yesterday version of myself. If through my own competitiveness I can show other people who are struggling alternatives to the blind dogmatic views that currently prevail in the UK then that is a good thing imo.

As to your final point about it being the diagnosis rather than low carbs I think it's more likely the diagnosis that gives the psychological trigger for depression. Some of us then see it as a battle to win and take on a positive non depressed viewpoint and recognise that maybe this is actually a way of getting healthier. Others get depressed because no matter how hard they try using the advice they're given they get nowhere, yet more get depressed because they realise they have to change but haven't the mental strength or aren't given the tools like being told the real truth about complications, blood levels etc. to find that inner strength. Some no matter what will never find the strength and be depressed.

Since my own diagnosis two long term T2 people I know have asked me how I have achieved what they cannot. Knowing the personalities of both I told one to use a testing / GI diet / portion control approach on starchy carbs and she is now doing very well getting her numbers in 6's and 7's mostly. For the first time she is now "competitive" about her condition and numbers and now she has begun to understand the effects of CARBS on her levels is moving to a carb counting regime. She is seriously losing weight for the first time in 25 years and now having transferred gradually over a couple of months to a full low CARB regime is a different person.

The other I just told about testing, low carb, ULC, carb counting right from the start as he wanted to do it that way. He tried it out and while it made some difference it was obvious he'd lost too much of his function over the years by having his pancreas blasted by the full spectrum of drugs. I advised him to talk to his gp about going on insulin or Byetta etc. as neither a change of diet or his current meds is keeping his levels safe. In any event he has stuck to the low carb lifestyle and again has lost a couple of stone and is a far happier person.

 

[catherinecherub]

Unbeliever,

I wonder if you misinterpreted my post?
I was saying that the OP highlighted something that others may not be aware of. A professional decrying low carbing really needs to think before he speaks and explain what he considers to be a low carb diet. There are too many definitions within the diabetes community and it is very confusing.

I personally think the number of carbs you eat is defined by what your meter tells you and not what someone on a forum tells you is the ideal amount.

We are all different in our response and anyone who thinks they have the magic formula must realise that they only have the magic formula for them and not everyone else.

I used to give advice about diet to newly diagnosed but after receiving p.m.'s from some members that I was talking rubbish because it wouldn't work for them then I gave up on that idea and leave it to people who carry on repeating themselves and the excellent advice from Daisy. I do answer a lot of questions via p.m. on the G.I. approach as that seems to stop a lot of negativity and arguments that ensue about what I do to gain control.

 

[noblehead]

But the large majority are not including that many noblehead.

The poll that was set up last year on the forum now has 336 votes of which 65% of people are saying they are on Low carb or ULC carb diets of less than 130g / day diets with just 23% on carb intakes greater than 130g. Even that is a bit misleading as that greater than 130g figure would also include people like Grazer who do a little bit more so we don't actually know how many of the greater than 130g posters would be defined as moderate carbers and how many are higher. For completeness 12% of posters don't count carbs.

At 130g a day people are obviously including some visual carbohydrates with their meals and that is why I needed to make that clear with Ian, how people define low-carb is neither here or there IMHO.

 

[noblehead]

Here is my definition of low-carb: "the level of carbohydrate restriction that allows you to get your BG under control".

Couldn't agree more Stephen :thumbup: .......... it matters not how many carbohydrates people are consuming as long as they are maintaining good bg levels.