Why no health warnings for carbs?

[MarkLondon]

As everyone knows, the NHS will have a real problem coping with diabetes in a few years time.

As a result, warnings about the dangers of excessive sugar consumption are being pushed via advertising campaigns and celebs such as Jamie Oliver trying to get a sugar tax put on all sugary items.

However, why isn't the same being made of the carbs we eat?

For example, a nice big baked potato or plate of white rice is often seen as a healthy alternative to chips, yet when all those carbs turn to sugar the dangers can be just as bad as drinking coke or eating a bar of chocolate yet nothing is ever said about eating too many carbs in this way

Surely health officials, doctors etc. should be emphasizing that even a baked potato eaten on a regular basis could lead to elevated sugar levels and over time - diabetes.

 

[dawnmc]

Afraid mainstream haven't caught up yet. Until metres are used diabetics are in the dark as to what they eat is doing to their levels.

 

[phoenix]

Evidence maybe rather important before adding a warning (and it's important to distinguish between a potato, basically unprocessed and white rice which has been stripped of much of it's nutritional benefits.)
Many healthy societies have eaten and continue to eat very high carbohydrate diets ;from the Hadza to the Kitavans to the modern Seventh day Adventist vegans and vegetarians .
In France the dictum is repas sans pain, repas rien (a meal without bread is nothing) . At the turn of the 20th century they were eating 600 grams per person of bread a day, now it's down to 130 gms on average; are they getting thinner?
Closer to home, the wartime diet restricted meat, fats and eggs as well as sugar. It was high in potatoes, bread and vegetables, the consumption of which fell year on year from the end of the war until 2000 (may still be doing but haven't checked) Is Britain healthier? Thinner? (life expectancy actually rose by 6-7 years during that period, double that of any other decade.)

Maybe some restaurant and take away meals should carry a warning, not because they have too much carbohydrate, too much sugar, too much fat but simply because they have far too many calories for far too few nutrients. Jamie Olivers dessert menumentioned in a thread yesterday has an item has about 750 calories 348 from carbohydrate and 351 from fat, a bit of protein and just 1g of fibre.

Basically lots of almost empty calories but hopefully most people will only eat like this occasionally .However, I suspect more people eat this sort of calorie fest more frequently than at any time in the past.

Unfortunately such a warning (or even worse a tax ) would not help those people in the poorest groups who are those most affected by the increase in obesity and poor health outcomes. Energy rich, nutrient poor food is cheaper.
See the cost of calories (2007 so costs will have risen, doubt the situation has changed) http://www.foodcomm.org.uk/articles/calorie_cost/

 

[iHs]

Right from the mid 60's when I became type 1, I have always needed to count the amount of carb in my food before eating it. As I grew older, I started to realise that food and insulin controlled my bodyweight and that the more food that I eat, the more insulin I needed and the more my bodyweight would increase. The main source of my weightgain at the time was due to carb in bread, potatoes, cereals and the batters. When I reduced my carb, my bodyweight reduced and I needed less insulin.
Unfortunately, there isn't that much sugar in food per 100g weight but there is a fair amount of carb aand its that that needs to addressed by eating less of it. A bread roll would contain about 20g carb but only a fraction of a tsp of sugar which to many people won't stop them from eating it.
Lots of people are a bit brainless to figure out what to do to reduce weight and use their love of food to mean more to them than looking after their health. Many people in their mid 60's upwards think that if they get ill, the NHS will always help them but in the modern world that the UK now is, the country is too over populated with people and the production of food to feed people is modified to include too much flour and too much transfat and too much meat that tastes great but is processed with other additives which most people are blissfully unaware when we pick up meat packaged in the plastic trays in supermarkets because the butcher shops are no longer.

 

[Daibell]

Evidence maybe rather important before adding a warning (and it's important to distinguish between a potato, basically unprocessed and white rice which has been stripped of much of it's nutritional benefits.)
Many healthy societies have eaten and continue to eat very high carbohydrate diets ;from the Hadza to the Kitavans to the modern Seventh day Adventist vegans and vegetarians .
In France the dictum is repas sans pain, repas rien (a meal without bread is nothing) . At the turn of the 20th century they were eating 600 grams per person of bread a day, now it's down to 130 gms on average; are they getting thinner?
Closer to home, the wartime diet restricted meat, fats and eggs as well as sugar. It was high in potatoes, bread and vegetables, the consumption of which fell year on year from the end of the war until 2000 (may still be doing but haven't checked) Is Britain healthier? Thinner? (life expectancy actually rose by 6-7 years during that period, double that of any other decade.)

Maybe some restaurant and take away meals should carry a warning, not because they have too much carbohydrate, too much sugar, too much fat but simply because they have far too many calories for far too few nutrients. Jamie Olivers dessert menumentioned in a thread yesterday has an item has about 750 calories 348 from carbohydrate and 351 from fat, a bit of protein and just 1g of fibre.

Basically lots of almost empty calories but hopefully most people will only eat like this occasionally .However, I suspect more people eat this sort of calorie fest more frequently than at any time in the past.

Unfortunately such a warning (or even worse a tax ) would not help those people in the poorest groups who are those most affected by the increase in obesity and poor health outcomes. Energy rich, nutrient poor food is cheaper.
See the cost of calories (2007 so costs will have risen, doubt the situation has changed) http://www.foodcomm.org.uk/articles/calorie_cost/

Being older rather than younger I can remember post war food but I can also remember no central heating, no family car so walking everywhere in the freezing cold. We therefore lost a lot of calories thru body heat loss. These days our daily calorie needs I suspect for most are possibly half the 'recommended' daily input. The food industry lobby works hard in the background and we can see this happening with the current sugar discussions; refined carbs are next on the list. Many of the establishment bodies follow the 'Group-think' principle and no one wants to be out of line. Many university research departments are at least part funded by big pharma and the food industry and I can see the research bias coming out in some of the reports.

 

[tim2000s]

Let's be honest about this though, referring back to the initial question. Carbs in general are not a health risk. Too many carbs mixed with too much fat is a health risk. Too much of the wrong type of carbs isn't great either, but putting a health warning on Quinoa, Sweet Potato or Rye, for example, doesn't strike me as something sensible or necessary, so where do you draw the line? The sugar content makes a lot more sense.

 

[Celeriac]

As people with diabetes we are 'metabolically broken ' to use a phrase I've seen recently. People who can handle carbs, handle them. People with that in-built faulty genetic disposition, don't.

Years ago, only the elderly developed T2DM but now, we're seeing it in children. Our food is industrialised, highly processed and over-flavoured with sugar or salt (sometimes both) to hide the fact that it's bland and of bad quality.

People eat way more carbs now, because carbs are cheap and we've been brainwashed into believing that fat is bad. Maybe those, in essence, are responsible for people developing T2DM so much earlier.

Not all obese people develop diabetes. Not all people with diabetes are obese. So it's never just about diet.

Removing cookery lessons from schools was a bad move. I'm pleased that they are compulsory now. We should all be able to feed ourselves basic stuff.

I think it's more a question of alerting people to the warning signs of developing obesity and especially insulin resistance rather than putting warning labels on carbs. Put too much info on products and people ignore it.

 

[4ratbags]

Its like a lot of things out there, its a bit of a double edged sword and it all comes down to preference in the end. My OH and kids saw how unwell I was when diagnosed and how much I have changed my eating habits but even though they are now more educated about carbs ect none of them have changed what they eat or drink and if there were warning labels it still wouldnt make an ounce of difference .

 

[Phub]

The main result of growing crops for sustenance is the availability of cheap, easily farmed foods; at the expense of nutrition. A trio of high-carb foods; wheat, rice, and corn, provide the bulk of mankind's intake, yet each one of these foods is low or deficient in certain vitamins and/or amino acids essential to life.

I like to add, nearly every portion of so-called junk-food, be it a donna, a hot-dog or a 'burger, is served with a large portion of starch; bread or potato chips, or both. It seems to me that whatever junk-food dish we buy, more than half of it is a serving of stodgy, starchy carbs. A meat pie is encased in pastry. (It wouldn't be a pie if it wasn't of course!) A 'burger is slapped between two halves of white bread. Likewise a hot dog. A lovely piece of cod is battered with flour-paste and served with potato chips. Also, there must be far more dough and sugary tomato in a Pizza, than there is meat and cheese! In other words the bulk of junk-food is stodge and sugar; yet it's the meat and fat that are blamed for the obesity epidemic. With that in mind, is it just me who thinks the true cause of obesity is as obvious as a pimple on a snooker-ball? Just l'il old me; a mere layman!

 

[Klangley]

@MarkLondon It sounds as if it is going to be a job to convince some of the NHS medical 'experts' of the dangers of carbs never mind the general population. And then there are the vested interests of the grain producers, food processors etc to overcome.

 

[LucySW]

Evidence maybe rather important before adding a warning (and it's important to distinguish between a potato, basically unprocessed and white rice which has been stripped of much of it's nutritional benefits.)
Many healthy societies have eaten and continue to eat very high carbohydrate diets ;from the Hadza to the Kitavans to the modern Seventh day Adventist vegans and vegetarians.

At the moment, from reading Jason Fung on hormonal obesity, processed vs unprocessed carbs seems to me very important. Phoenix, have you looked at that series? I keep thinking he's simplifying, but he doesn't. It's very honest, and he keeps bringing in layer after layer of complexity. And its not Carb the Root of all Evil. It's Insulin the Root of All Evil, and what triggers the insulin is not merely carb but other things too. Esp constant snacking, but also stress/cortisol cycles.

 

[Phub]

All I know is that when I am 'on my diet' (LCHF) my blood sugar readings are normal. Yesterday I experimented and ate nothing but carbs. (IE I ate bread at every meal. The only meat I had was in a tin of Game Soup. My readings went through the roof, and stayed above 11 all day. This morning, within ten minutes of a full 'English' I was down to 7.4.

Someone spoke about warnings on food packaging. I can't say I have ever noticed any warnings on a loaf of bread, such as: 'Regular consumption of this product can contribute to obesity!' I know that isn't generally accepted, but it's my belief.

Phoenix.

I agree with you about the nutrition values of rice and potatoes, but even so, if I eat potatoes for a few days I definitely begin to feel, and weigh, heavy again. As for rice, I just plain don't like it except as a 'pudding'. So I don't eat it, because I would have to have sugar with it!

 

[tim2000s]

I have ever noticed any warnings on a loaf of bread, such as: 'Regular consumption of this product can contribute to obesity!'

But this fundamentally isn't true. If you regularly eat two slices of bread a day alongside a healthy diet of normal proportions, it's highly unlikely that it will contribute to obesity.

 

[Robinredbreast]

My elderly father is 92 and still eats carbs, we were brought up on them. We ate toast, cereal, or a boiled egg for breakfast. Home cooked food of, stews, mince and tatties, pearl barley soup, lentil soup, chops, boiled potatoes and veg, fish cooked in milk, fruit bowl was always full, a fish supper or a visit to the Wimpey was a treat ( I was a teenager in the 1970's)

But this fundamentally isn't true. If you regularly eat two slices of bread a day alongside a healthy diet of normal proportions, it's highly unlikely that it will contribute to obesity.

My dad is living proof.

 

[tim2000s]

My elderly father is 92 and still eats carbs, we were brought up on them. We ate toast, cereal, or a boiled egg for breakfast. Home cooked food of, stews, mince and tatties, pearl barley soup, lentil soup, chops, boiled potatoes and veg, fish cooked in milk, fruit bowl was always full, a fish supper or a visit to the Wimpey was a treat ( I was a teenager in the 1970's).

Sounds very similar to my Grandfather's diet. He has eaten meat, veg, breakfast cereal with milk and toast/bread and had cake with tea and pudding with lunch all his life. He's 94 and still walking around the village where he lives and popping into coffee mornings. He's never so much as looked at T2 diabetes, or been obese.

On the other hand, he doesn't eat vast amounts of food, and doesn't snack.

 

[Robinredbreast]

Sounds very similar to my Grandfather's diet. He has eaten meat, veg, breakfast cereal with milk and toast/bread and had cake with tea and pudding with lunch all his life. He's 94 and still walking around the village where he lives and popping into coffee mornings. He's never so much as looked at T2 diabetes, or been obese.

On the other hand, he doesn't eat vast amounts of food, and doesn't snack.

My dad is the same Tim, he eats smaller portions of food and doesn't go out any more as he more frail now, but still going strong. Eats whatever he wants, he has a liking for Cadbury's Roses now, which he never used to have ( always ate 3 meals a day, mainly savoury and not a big 'sweetie' eater)

 

[azure]

But this fundamentally isn't true. If you regularly eat two slices of bread a day alongside a healthy diet of normal proportions, it's highly unlikely that it will contribute to obesity.

I can't remember the name of it, but a few years ago there was an interesting programme on TV where they had a group of teens live as they did in the 1950s. I think it was comparing school systems mainly, but as part of the experiment the teens were given 1950s meals, complete with traditional puddings and often accompanied by bread and butter. Those children lost weight on that diet (to their surprise).

 

[mfactor]

As a T2 carbs are my enemy (LCHF).....but for generally healthy people eating a balanced diet they (IMO) are fine.......

A few facts picked up over the years

The ration book diet , as said above very good , also as a gout sufferer the incidences of it dropped to virtually zero during the ration years..........

Studies have also shown that generation are healthier than their kids............


Worlds best diet..............http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/30/iceland-has-the-worlds-best-diet-but-its-bad-news-for-the-uk-4781913/

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-worlds-best-diet

A bit of a shock when it was revealed as Iceland, as was expecting the mediterranean diet or a Japanese diet maybe.........


Only one TV program I know but interesting all the same............

 

[Pinkorchid]

No I don't think there should be a health warning on carbs because for most healthy people they can eat them without any problem as part of a healthy diet so why would they want to give them up.... carbs are not unhealthy for everyone and not everyone overeats on them
I was born the year WW2 started so for the first few years of my life I grew up with food rationing and it did not totally stop until the early 50s Starchy carbs were the basics of every families diet especially potatoes with every meal and lots of bread every day yet you very rarely saw an overweight person or heard of T2 diabetes yes they did have more active lives people walked far more and children played outside the illnesses of the past that killed thousands like TB had died out and no one starved in this country during the war so people became much healthier. I believe if we stopped going everywhere in cars walked more and we still ate the way people did then even with the starchy carbs but without all the processed foods, takeaways and snacks we still would not have the big problem of diabetes and obesity that we have now The problem is far more than just food though it is the lifestyle in general that we live now that is not as healthy as it was back then

 

[Pinkorchid]

As everyone knows, the NHS will have a real problem coping with diabetes in a few years time.

As a result, warnings about the dangers of excessive sugar consumption are being pushed via advertising campaigns and celebs such as Jamie Oliver trying to get a sugar tax put on all sugary items.

However, why isn't the same being made of the carbs we eat?

For example, a nice big baked potato or plate of white rice is often seen as a healthy alternative to chips, yet when all those carbs turn to sugar the dangers can be just as bad as drinking coke or eating a bar of chocolate yet nothing is ever said about eating too many carbs in this way

Surely health officials, doctors etc. should be emphasizing that even a baked potato eaten on a regular basis could lead to elevated sugar levels and over time - diabetes.

Yes true for diabetics but not for most people who can eat them perfectly well as part of a healthy diet so why would they want to give them up