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Why won't the NHS tell you the secret to treating diabetes?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by hyponilla, Nov 22, 2020.

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  1. Hotpepper20000

    Hotpepper20000 · Well-Known Member

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    I wish more people would understand this.
    Weight gain usually starts much sooner then high blood sugar.
     
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  2. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Raised blood glucose is 'merely' the end stage of diabetic pathology. It's a diagnostic criteria but the underlying problem likely began decades in advance. Certainly in the case of classical, hyperinsulinemia type 2.
     
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  3. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Weight loss is not great, a subtle but important difference is fat loss. On other protocols there is a metabolic loss, so now you have to eat less than before and workout (according to Professor Taylor). In addition weight loss, reduces fat, yes, but also muscle mass loss and possibly bone density - the latter 2 are not desirable. I do not have to hand the references but a well formulated low carb / ketogenic diet has better health markers overall than low calorie, usually trigs and hdl are 2 examples as well as increasing the size of ldl particles (if someone has the others please chime in). David Ludwig and others have shown a metabolic advantage of circa 200 - 300 calories positively in favour of low carb.

    Again, sorry don't have to hand references, but many do not loose weight and still reverse Type 2. If someone wants to eat without watching potion size religiously low carb / keto is a major contender.
     
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  4. hyponilla

    hyponilla Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    It was. Hopefully you're all well again.
     
  5. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    " In fact one in 10 people have a ‘normal’ BMI at the time of diagnosis and in contrast around three quarters of people with BMI over 45 do not have type 2 diabetes.

    The truth is that we are all individuals, and simple statistical categorisation by BMI is inappropriate. Those of us with a genetic set to live in a body of BMI 25 may well get type 2 diabetes if their weight rises to 28. And those who have normal metabolism with a BMI of 34 may get the disease if they put on weight to say, a BMI of 37. In other words, we all have a personal fat threshold above which mischief will start happening. This has been rather obscured by the present popularity of population level information to drive beliefs about what is relevant for individuals. But there is a clear bottom line: if a person has true type 2 diabetes, then they have become too heavy for their body."
    Prof Taylor
    https://inews.co.uk/opinion/type-2-diabetes-reversing-remission-diet-396640
    TOFIs, as they have been dubbed, ie thin or normal BMI diabetics can lose weight to lose pancreatic fat in exactly the same way as overweight or obese subjects. Proportionately they have stored too much ectopic fat on their pancreas and that has clogged the beta cells, damaging them and causing them to stop producing insulin. Some nationalities in particular (eg south Asians) have a tendency to store fat on their pancreas and liver when they are only BMI 23 or even below. It's about being too fat for your own body's ability to cope with it, not about overall quantity of fat.
     
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  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Whilst your strong support for Prof Taylor is in it's way quite sweet he is not the only expert.
    Many more of us have used low carb to both lose weight and put T2 into remission.
    ND is neither the only way nor in my opinion the best way to achieve weight loss, remission or both of those.
    We have given many examples of why. It would be quite nice if you could take on board some of our points rather than simply block quote one man all the time.
    Maybe you could share some of your stats too so we can see how well it has worked for you?
     
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  7. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    It was indeed. I had stomach ulcers - memorably painful, but then got inflamed trachea, next stop pneumonia, and was given six lots of antibiotics with no improvement - then the doctor rushed to the house with a sample bottle of a new tablet and I was better in three days.
    Once I fully recovered I realised the ulcers had gone, never to return.
     
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  8. Daphne917

    Daphne917 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately it is not always possible as many people have problems with their metabolism. I have not lost a lot of weight however, through cutting carbs, I have managed to maintain a non-diabetic Hba1c for approx 7 years despite still being overweight. When I was younger and not diabetic I tried a version of the Newcastle diet which made me ill to the point that my doctor told me to go home and have a good meal because in 3 months I had only managed to lose 7lb but my metabolism had, quite literally, started to shut my body down as it had gone into starvation mode. I was later told by an endocrinologist that I was one of his few patients that could blame their metabolism for their weight but I had a choice - stay as I was and keep eating healthily or drop my calories and make myself very ill - I chose the former.
     
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  9. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    • Informative Informative x 1
    #29 bulkbiker, Nov 23, 2020 at 9:58 AM
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  10. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    The reason I keep banging on about Newcastle Diet is that I am worried that if people don't try it first they may lose the opportunity. It will work well in the first 4 to 6 years after diagnosis and in some people even for 8 years or so (as long as you lose the weight). After that the beta cells will have become irreparably damaged and it will no longer be possible to restore their function and put T2 into remission. ND has been scientifically proven to work, with Prof Taylor's ultra sensitive MRI scanner. If people spend several years keeping their BGs under control with Low Carb diet, it will take the strain off the sick beta cells but not restore them to normal or near normal function. By that time they may have lost the opportunity of repairing their beta cells which IMO is the only way to achieve potential permanent remission. I have no problem with Low Carb diet as far as it goes and would probably choose it myself if ND had not already put me into remission. If only to avoid the unpleasant bathroom side effects of metformin.
     
  11. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    The ViRTA study and lots of Dr Unwins patients have shown this claim to be completely unfounded I'm afraid.
    Even insulin users have managed to both stop insulin use and restore their beta cell function to normal.

    Another completely unfounded claim. I have "passed" every diagnostic test for T2 (apart from a very slightly elevated insulin resistance reading a couple of years ago) from that I surmise that my beta cell function is normal.

    You, so far as I am aware, have never shared any of your medical results.. it would be interesting to compare how your's look.
    Only if you want to of course.
     
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  12. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Jeez the ND shakes contain soya! Not good for those who are intolerant of soya. Soya makes me gain weight!
     
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  13. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't touch any of those shakes with a 10ft pole.... just junk.
     
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  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    That's what the vast majority of the comments say too.
     
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  15. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Cripes. Basically just artificial food then?
     
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  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    "food"?
     
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  17. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    That's what's recommended by the NHS? If so that is incredibly sad and ignorant when there is real decent food to be eaten that actually is healthy.
     
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  18. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Edible food substitute.
     
  19. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    "edible"?
     
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  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Sorry in one of those moods today!
     
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