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Why won't the NHS tell you the secret to treating diabetes?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by hyponilla, Nov 22, 2020.

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  1. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    On a low calorie diet I just go deathly pale, cold and collapse, unable to function. I suppose it is my metabolism shutting down, but I would never attempt semi starvation again - I had too many run arounds with the doctor wanting me to lose weight on low fat low calorie high carb diet sheets which were 'sure to get the fat off' - but ended up destroying muscle and vitality.
     
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  2. Daphne917

    Daphne917 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Looks as though someone was playing with their chemistry set and saw a way to make loads of money!
     
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  3. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    It certainly does! At least Michael Moseley's diet uses real food.
     
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  4. Hotpepper20000

    Hotpepper20000 · Well-Known Member

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    But it’s not necessary for people to do the Newcastle Diet. A low carb or keto way of eating does the same thing with out ingesting chemicals from a man made concoction.
    Looking at the ingredients of these shakes I would not only be hungry but very sick if I drank it.
    It not just about losing weight,but doing so that it is sustainable and healthy. (If there is weight to loose)
    What happens after the shakes? Do you go back to bread and rice? How is that sustainable?

    Bacon, eggs, roast chicken, steak, and cheese helped me lose weight and keep my A1C below 40 for three years.
     
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  5. Daphne917

    Daphne917 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    @Tannith the issue that I have with the theory that weight loss is the best way to control diabetes is that it perpetuates the myth that T2 diabetes is a lifestyle condition caused by the patient themselves through unhealthy eating, binging on takeaways and being over weight when, in fact, there are a number of causes. Looking at me you’d think I fitted all three categories however, look in my fridge, freezer and food cupboard and you’d see that, although I am over weight, I eat healthily - although some in the NHS wouldn’t think so due to the amount of cheese, meat and eggs and lack of fruit and ‘healthy’ grains etc they’ll find! My sister on the other hand fits 2 of these categories and is not even pre let alone diabetic!
     
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  6. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    If people spend several years keeping their BGs under control with Low Carb diet, it will take the strain off the sick beta cells but not restore them to normal or near normal function.
    Another completely unfounded claim. I have "passed" every diagnostic test for T2 (apart from a very slightly elevated insulin resistance reading a couple of years ago) from that I surmise that my beta cell function is normal.
    I would certainly never assume that a person's beta cell function was "normal" simply because they had low BGs. They might be keeping them down with drugs or they might simply be eating so few carbs that there was almost no sugar in their bloodstream for their sick beta cells to tackle. Having low BGs is brilliant as it reduces T2 complications but it does not necessarily indicate healed beta cells.
     
    #46 Tannith, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:06 PM
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  7. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I should have used the expression "Newcastle Method" ie substantial weight loss sufficient to remove pancreatic fat. Prof Taylor has said that any diet will do as long as it achieves the necessary weight loss, and that bariatric surgery works also. I believe they used shakes in the studies just to achieve uniformity among the subjects so that their diets were comparable. I used real food because, having tried shakes when at university, I found them revolting.
     
  8. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    I have had stomach issues since a child, along with lactose intolerance and being not able to eat a lot of food, such as green vegetables (fresh salad is fine).
    I believe that my living in poverty and and not getting the nutritional needs that children needed when young.
    During my adult life I had various tests to try and find out why.
    But not one because of the bacteria.
    It wasn't until well over a decade ago that I was again having an endoscopy that this test was done.
    The antibiotics and treatment for heliocobacter pylori was relatively new.
    It worked, when my endocrinologist discovered this in my case history, he implied that the bacteria or the antibiotics was maybe the cause of my diagnosis of RH.

    Keep safe
     
  9. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Do you have any proof of this statement (I'd be most surprised if you do) ....please don't simply quote a chunk of Prof Taylor's theories.
    I'm asking for actual proof.
     
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  10. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    What about those of us who have reversed our diabetes by low carbing, but haven't lost weight? I am still 19 stones, after 9 years of low carbing, but my blood sugar levels have been fine since about 5 months of starting to low carb. I am not the only one on here.

    Losing weight is not essential, lowering carbs IS essential.
     
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  11. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    Can you evidence the first claim? How do you assess the status of beta cells?
     
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  12. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    @Tannith I am pleased that you have reversed your T2 using the ND, but it doesn't work for all of us. I tried something similar at diagnosis in 2011 to no avail.
     
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  13. OrsonKartt

    OrsonKartt Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Gotta tell you all I reversed my DX with the Newcastle diet. It’s brutal but a month in And my sugars were normal. Thank the stars above and the generous sharing on this site I discovered Low carbing. Oh so much friendly, more do-able and you know what mainly enjoyable , I mean I actually enjoy the buzz, the feel good factor I get from fasting . Yes it’s a discipline but one I am genuinely happy to live with . After 4 years I’m still learning I’m still fine tuning, trying to figure out things but it’s more than ok.
     
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  14. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    The problem I had with the ND was that I didn't lose enough weight on it, low carb was better for weight loss and better all round.
     
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  15. OrsonKartt

    OrsonKartt Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    For me it’s never been about weight - I’m 6’3”” my weight fluctuates between 70 -75 kg depending on how much butter and coconut oil I put in my coffee - the problems I had with the Newcastle diet were the weakness it created and the hunger. I did it because I was trying to avoid medication and didn’t know any better
     
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  16. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    My insulin production seems to be just fine - when in the process of reversing my type two I had several 'false' hypos - but my BG WAS dropping rapidly - under the influence of insulin.
    Now I am in remission, if I eat more carbs, I do not see the results on the BG meter but on the weighing scales - my insulin is doing its job, it was just being ignored before.
     
  17. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    You can only assess their status if you have an ultra sensitive MRI scanner such as the one used by Prof Taylor or other means of testing them eg post mortem staining; or other indicators such as measuring their insulin production. Obviously I don't personally have any of this kit or access to these tests which are only available to world renowned scientific researchers such as Prof Taylor & his team. I just have to read the findings in their reports published in acclaimed scientific journals (such as the Lancet & Diabetologia) & take their word for it.
    This evidence is good enough for the world's foremost diabetes experts so it is good enough for me.

    "The study found, however, beta cells are not permanently damaged in early T2D and can be rescued by removing the metabolic stress of excess fat within the cells. The findings are the result of the examination of insulin production on a subgroup at baseline (starting weight), immediately after weight loss (five months), and upon follow up of one and two years."

    https://www.diabetes.org/newsroom/press-releases/2019/insulin-producing-beta-cells
     
  18. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    Thank you for the reply. The quote above says that the beta cells can be rescued by removing the metabolic stress of excess fat within these cells. It doesn’t appear to say this type of diet is the only way to do so. Does it mention definitions of early T2? Perhaps a link to your quote would be useful here.
    As none of us can measure our beta cells the best guide we have to their effectiveness are the tests we do have access to which would include the tests @bulkbiker mentions and you dismissed.
     
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  19. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    You can get a glucose tolerance test at the GP I believe. That should tell you how heathy or otherwise your beta cells are. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence on here eg the thread below and others. People doing low carb reporting eating this or that and finding their post prandial bg shoot up. An easier though less precise way of doing it would be just to eat a normal meal of say boiled potatoes peas and meat followed by rice pudding with a dollop of jam, and then test afterwards then at half hour intervals for a couple of hours. Then at 2 hours post prandial. People on here often report that they have had high bg spikes after high carb foods. That would be unlikely to happen if their beta cells were healed.
    Which surprising foods spike your bg?
     
    #59 Tannith, Nov 24, 2020 at 12:28 PM
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Have you tried this and what were your results like?
     
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