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Why won't the NHS tell you the secret to treating diabetes?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by hyponilla, Nov 22, 2020.

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  1. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    The page you link to says your planned daily calorie intake is too low. What is your current weight?

    Seriously, why aren't you listening even to the linked page information?
     
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  2. zand

    zand Type 2 · Master

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    I suspect it is because Professor Taylor states that fat in the pancreas and liver is the problem, thereby blaming the patient and shaming them into a faddy diet.
     
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  3. Tannith

    Tannith · BANNED

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    You can't know what your Personal Fat Threshold is until you get to it. It is the max weight you can be before becoming diabetic. To find out you have to keep losing weight until your FBGs are normal for a few days running. When I get there I shall know what it is. For now I'm guessing it will be around 124lbs so I've set the calculator for that for the time being and shall adjust later. That would give me a BMI of 22.8 according to Mr Pot's calculator, which is not underweight but just above the middle of the normal range -probably about right- but I shall find out later on if I succeed in getting there. Also adjust the age later as I am not yet quite 75 but probably shall be by the time I get my FBG down sufficiently. Just preparing so I have a rough idea and can think about suitable meals in advance.
     
    #143 Tannith, Nov 29, 2020 at 6:12 PM
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  4. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    As a general rule, liver and pancreatic fat is the problem, mostly driven by excess dietary fructose and glucose. But carbohydrate restriction burns all this off just as effectively as starvation. Arguably more so, and with none of the downsides of hunger or long term problems associated with torpedoing your metabolism.

    In my opinion only, of course.
     
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  5. zand

    zand Type 2 · Master

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    Yes, I agree, but Professor Taylor uses this fact to push a faddy vlc diet that is unnecessary and can be dangerous.
     
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  6. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    I am totally sure you are fundamentally misunderstanding this. It's not only weight.

    How is continuing to strictly control your weight to hopefully keep your blood sugar levels down, for the rest of your life, any different to controlling carb intake to keep blood sugar levels down, in terms of daily monitoring?

    Low carbing allows sufficient intake to nourish yourself and avoid other complications, like osteoporosis for example.
     
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  7. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    But, how will you know when you have got there - personal fat threshold, as opposed to weight goal?

    Personally, I focused 100% on my blood glucose. I wasn't weighed at diagnosis, and nor did I weigh myself for about 3 months, for a plethora of reasons.

    My bathroom scales make a calculation/measurement of my body fat, and of my visceral fat, but neither gives any indication when I might have passed my personal fat threshold.

    I think the personal fat threshold is a great concept, particularly for those with excess mid-section weight, to explain a tipping point. As a working concept to gauge whether someone is reversed or however you choose to express it, their Type 2 Diabetes is sketchy at the very best.

    Just for full disclosure, I do run a body scan once a week, and do keep an eye on my Visceral Fat score, t ensure it doesn't rise, irrespective of variations in my total body weight.
     
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  8. Tannith

    Tannith · BANNED

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    I know I'm not there yet because my FBGs tell me I am still diabetic. So if I keep losing weight my FBGs will continue to fall. When they have fallen to normal I shall know that that is my personal tipping point between being diabetic and not. Above that weight I start to have diabetic FBGs, below it I am no longer (albeit possibly just a remission) diabetic. Everyone is different. we all have different Personal Fat Thresholds. Some people don't turn diabetic until they are morbidly obese - their bodies can take being quite a high weight. Others like TOFIs can turn diabetic at the lower end of normal BMI. These people's bodies can't cope with even very low levels of visceral fat before they turn diabetic. Once I have found out my Personal Fat Threshold it will become my weight goal to keep to for life. That doesn't mean I shall succeed of course, and I am not looking forward to having to diet again, though I shall put the diet on pause over Christmas, even if that means continuing for longer in the New Year to reach my PFT.
     
    #148 Tannith, Nov 29, 2020 at 8:04 PM
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  9. Ronancastled

    Ronancastled Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'll say one thing for Prof Taylor & his work, it's the first piece of got news you normally find googling after diagnosis. It's when you drill down into his data that you start asking questions. First flaw in his method is the high amount of relapse due to weight regain, after bariatric surgery the patient is limited in the amount of food they can consume, not so when you lose it voluntary. Whatever about the personal fat threshold it's the bodies preset fat state that's the bigger danger, eating is a way of life that's difficult to change. Second issue I have with Taylor is his definition of remission @ <6.5%. At year one his successful candidates at an average HbA1c of 5.8, this slipped to 6.0 at year 2. You have to believe This prediabetic state wasn't good for their beta cells. Thirdly, although their max insulin output was the same a non-diabetic control group at 12 months their first phase insulin response was still only half of what the non-diabetic group managed, I would have liked to see how high they spiked on an OGTT but there's no available data on that.

    Personally speaking the PFT held true for me. After only losing a single stone my glucometer arrived & I was fragile but always in range. Losing 4 more stone fine tuned my insulin resistance to the point where I think I'd easily pass on OGTT. I'll find out soon as the Rapilose is on it's way.
     
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  10. zand

    zand Type 2 · Master

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    @Tannith if you really want to lose weight then the quickest and easiest way is to cut carbs right down to as near to zero as you can manage. Ditch those unhealthy carby shakes.
     
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  11. Tannith

    Tannith · BANNED

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    A given body weight/age/level of activity requires a fixed amount of energy to maintain its weight. Not lose;Not gain. These calculators give a reasonable estimate of it, measuring the calories required (though doubtless not perfectly accurate). For a certain size etc you need a certain number of calories. If I ate these calories only in the form of non carbohydrates I would not be able to eat any more, just different food. It's the same amount of food in terms of energy/calories whether you eat it as fat or potatoes.
     
  12. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Why?
     
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  13. zand

    zand Type 2 · Master

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    I experimented and found this to be untrue for me. All calories are not equal. I don't understand why you have such faith in a theory when many of us here have found a better way. I am out of this discussion now.
     
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  14. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    Why not? Calories in carbs, fats or proteins each behave differently. The idea that all calories are equal was debunked some time ago. This is especially true of carbs in diabetics.

    I hope some will come on here with the research.

    Quite apart from that, the amount of calories that calculator from your link gave for maintenance says quite clearly in the link that it is too low to maintain health.

    Think about this, please. Do more and different research.
     
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  15. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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  16. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    No disrespect intended, but you seem fixated on calories, FBG, weight, and an unproven dietary approach that is risking your health. The idea that following a nutrient deficient diet that can cause a host of problems, gall stones, heart problems, muscle loss, bone loss, greatly elevated cortisol levels etc just doesn't make for a sound approach.

    There is a reason crash diets are advised to be conducted under medical supervision, they can be dangerous to your health. Taylors method isn't any different to any other extreme calorie reduction diet, he's just good a marketing and selling it. These methods end in failure because it places the body under extreme duress.

    If you feel you are being bombarded, it's not because people are just disagreeing with the lack of evidence of Taylors, but concern for your health.
     
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  17. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    I’d add that the Newcastle diet is also designed to be of a short duration, with reintroduction of real foods built in. Not ongoing until the fbg is where you want it to be.
     
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  18. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    That is true, but there is still supervision... because when the shakes and soups end. There is still restriction and portion size control to maintain. And the calorie counting continues on.
     
    #159 Tophat1900, Nov 30, 2020 at 9:41 AM
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  19. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    But in terms of satiety and nutritional benefit it's like 2 different worlds.
    We can but try and point you in the easiest direction but it seems like you prefer pain to pleasure (which is a shame).
     
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