What does the UK leaving the EU mean for us?

[lindisfel]

Sad, the Brexiteers thought they would sock the establishment in the mouth over percieved grievances, but actually they have shot themselves and everybody else in the foot. At the end of the day the fat cats will get fatter and the bitter will get more bitter. A democracy should be judged by how it treats its own and other minorities and not governed by ill will to others. Such is the road to fascism.

 

[KevinPotts]

Sad, the Brexiteers thought they would sock the establishment in the mouth over percieved grievances, but actually they have shot themselves and everybody else in the foot. At the end of the day the fat cats will get fatter and the bitter will get more bitter. A democracy should be judged by how it treats its own and other minorities and not governed by ill will to others. Such is the road to fascism.

There are quite a few "rich" hit very hard by the depreciation in sterling, losing hundreds of millions. Of course the likes of Soros made many millions as usual backing the right direction....good for him, he took the risk and will benefit from the upside.

I must say I am slightly troubled by being part of the 125,000 only of those who will decide who the next PM will be...a sort of stratified democracy.


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[hankjam]

There are quite a few "rich" hit very hard by the depreciation in sterling, losing hundreds of millions. Of course the likes of Soros made many millions as usual backing the right direction....good for him, he took the risk and will benefit from the upside.

I must say I am slightly troubled by being part of the 125,000 only of those who will decide who the next PM will be...a sort of stratified democracy.


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No pressure then Kevin, vote early and vote often......

 

[Diabetic_Aspie]

????? I and my family are remain voters. The point I was trying to make was that some on this thread have said we should look after UK first and not worry about our neighbours. I was simply taking that to its logical conclusion that in that case we should only worry about our own families here in the UK. So what if someone 2 doors down needs a friend? What an ugly world we live in if that's what being British means.

I was moved to tears on a short trip to France recently. There was a Syrian family begging. They differed from other beggars in that the wife and children were standing, protected behind the father, who simply, quietly, held out a hand. They weren't using their children to harass people as I have seen others do. They could have been me and my family. And my own country doesn't want immigrants here.....that's what made me cry.

Hi, I'm sorry: I took the last sentence in your previous post literally ("I'll look after myself and mine..."). Apologies for completely misinterpreting your previous post.

I don't get sad when I see something sad - I get angry. And I have been angry plenty recently with many Leavers repeating, "It's not our problem, it's theirs. Let's just keep our heads down and concentrate on solving our own problems.".

So, when I read that sentence in your post, I basically saw red. . Sorry!!!

 

[Diabetic_Aspie]

There are quite a few "rich" hit very hard by the depreciation in sterling, losing hundreds of millions. Of course the likes of Soros made many millions as usual backing the right direction....good for him, he took the risk and will benefit from the upside.

I must say I am slightly troubled by being part of the 125,000 only of those who will decide who the next PM will be...a sort of stratified democracy.


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I'd better join the Tories, and fast!

 

[zand]

Hi, I'm sorry: I took the last sentence in your previous post literally ("I'll look after myself and mine..."). Apologies for completely misinterpreting your previous post.

I don't get sad when I see something sad - I get angry. And I have been angry plenty recently with many Leavers repeating, "It's not our problem, it's theirs. Let's just keep our heads down and concentrate on solving our own problems.".

So, when I read that sentence in your post, I basically saw red. . Sorry!!!

Yes I'm sorry too. The post in question was me seeing red as well. I was angry too but didn't express it as well as you. I suppose I was saying we never know when any of us may need help..... Sorry for misleading you. We are in agreement.

 

[Diabetic_Aspie]

No irony in that. Apparently, farmers' profit margins are too low to pay a living wage to British workers but not so low that they can't pack up and move to another country?

They're either lying or bluffing (oh wait, bluffing is lying).

I was a remain voter but I understand why people voted leave. Until all the self-righteous 'remainers' get to grips with the GOOD reasons people voted to leave, there will be no political progress. The fact is that foreign workers can come over, live six to a room, work and save and in three or four years go home with enough for a house and car. Because of the (previous) exchange rate. There is nowhere in the world where UNSKILLED Brits can do the same. So what was happening was that one working class was being used to stuff another. That was one reason a large group of people voted leave.

The other was the bank bail out, the tax avoidance by huge multinationals, and the Panama papers. Older people, another pro-leave group, are sick of seeing rich people fiddle the system. Yes, they themselves benefit from the banking elite's activities through pension schemes, etc, but they still feel outraged by massive bonuses (with no moral justification at all), the extraordinary tax avoidance of Google, Apple, Starbucks, etc and companies like BHS (the guy's WIFE walked off with 650 million, while BHS sucked £700 million out of the U.K. through the tax credits paid to their workers).

Plus on the 'racism' charge, minorities in the UK got shafted by both sides. My son (who is black) found he could no longer get the jobs he used to get (in coffee shops, etc). He said, 'Mum, if it's between me and a pretty little blonde Polish girl, she gets it every time.'

These are some of the factors I saw operating.

I think people just wouldn't wait any more. The vote meant: 'It's not working for us. We can't fix it, so we're going to break it.'

It's sad. It's drastic. But it just MIGHT have a good outcome of the right people really put their backs into it. And if the self-designated 'smart' people can just stop, just really STOP despising the working class in Britain.


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Risking putting my foot into my mouth again, but...

Any coffee shop etc would hire ANY girl over ANY boy. I don't think that has anything to do with your son's skin colour. It's just how it works, imho.

I have been on a few conferences over the past couple of years: Nottingham, Manchester, London, Shrewsbury. I stayed in decent, though modest, hotel chains. EVERY TIME, the hotel seemed to have travelled to Poland to recruit 99% of their staff. The remainder was a mixed bag of Orientals, Afro-Caribbeans and, occasionally, British Caucasians. The management positions seemed to have been filled with an Afro-Caribbean British man, a Polish woman, a Polish man, and a British Caucasian. I chatted to them: they all moaned that they had been struggling on with unfilled vacancies due to the lack of applicants until the Eastern Europeans were allowed in. Where were those millions of voters who claimed that Poles stole their jobs away?

The postmaster in my village (British Indian) is mourning Brexit. He also runs the village convenience shop, employing several locals. He said that when the Latvian girl goes home for holidays is the worst time of the year for him. No one would step up to fill in for her; not other employees of his, and not anyone else in the village. He ends up doing it himself.

A friend told me that a well known car factory manager is predicting the factory's closure within five years. Because "Eastern European workers are 80% of our workforce; and the 20% that are not only employed in the easiest jobs we can offer. If it had been up to me, I would not employ any Brits at all. With Polish workers, our productivity doubled, AND we no longer have posts remaining vacant for years.". That manager is British Caucasian.

I also have friends who are working class through and through. They are all employed, and tell me that they didn't have much trouble getting jobs.

I also know a family who are very vocal about them **** foreigners stealing British jobs, though I honestly don't know how would they know that. No one in that family has ever worked, going back three generations.

 

[ickihun]

Interesting article in the FT this morning and on Radio 4. The immediate impact of the massive drop in Sterling is that many of those who were denigrated by the Leave campaign are either leaving for jobs back in the EU or not coming over. Farmers have reported a significant drop in the migratory European workforce and also many leaving.

Why is this important? Well the sustainability of the UK farming sector has been dependent on the migratory workforce for years, and almost no-one who picks fruit and veg has been British. With a lower value pound, it is not economically sensible for them to travel and stay here to pick the fruit and veg.

So who does it now? Well there are clearly jobs available, so it must be all those who voted leave to take their jobs back from the EU immigrants. Except that the farms are not getting applications from any Brits. In reality, it potentially means that we lose parts of crops that can't be picked.

Farmers this morning were discussing the plans they had made to deal with this on R4. Instead of farming in the UK, there's a fair proportion that are moving out to continental Europe where they can get more land and easier access to labour. Equipment is mobile and so are techniques.

So much for "Support the UK by buying British produce". There aren't enough people to pick it. What a lovely irony that presents...

If they pay minimum wage jobcentre plus will help them fill their vacancies. Without a doubt.

 

[KevinPotts]

@Diabetic_Aspie:

I totally disagree with the premise of your assertion that;

"Any coffee shop etc would hire ANY girl over ANY boy. I don't think that has anything to do with your son's skin colour. It's just how it works, imho."

If I were the coffee shop manager and many sole traders I know would simply employ based in meritocracy, not gender or race or sexual orientation, age or any other discriminatory criteria....

This includes, but is not limited to, who presents the best, is the most motivated, can engage a customer with warmth, will turn up on time, work hard, displaying respect to customers and colleagues alike etc... This could be a female or male, any race, age etc.



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[tim2000s]

If they pay minimum wage jobcentre plus will help them fill their vacancies. Without a doubt.

I'm of the opposite opinion. It's quite hard work (I did it as a student) and many of those out of work simply don't want to do it. Why would they not be receiving applicants from the UK when paying minimum wage already?


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[hankjam]

@Diabetic_Aspie:

I totally disagree with the premise of your assertion that;

"Any coffee shop etc would hire ANY girl over ANY boy. I don't think that has anything to do with your son's skin colour. It's just how it works, imho."

If I were the coffee shop manager and many sole traders I know would simply employ based in meritocracy, not gender or race or sexual orientation, age or any other discriminatory criteria....

This includes, but is not limited to, who presents the best, is the most motivated, can engage a customer with warmth, will turn up on time, work hard, displaying respect to customers and colleagues alike etc... This could be a female or male, any race, age etc.



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Agreed

In my working life, I have generally found women to be better at the same jobs than men.
Better at planning and better at execution.
They often lack some self confidence, which I really don't understand.

 

[RuthW]

I'm of the opposite opinion. It's quite hard work (I did it as a student) and many of those out of work simply don't want to do it. Why would they not be receiving applicants from the UK when paying minimum wage already?


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They don't advertise the jobs in the UK. They use agencies who recruit in Eastern Europe en masse, then the agency takes a "cut" and the actual foreign labourers get LESS than the minimum wage, even though the employer APPEARS to be offering minimum wage. Foreign workers are then more "flexible" or pliable because they can't afford to walk out.

The Economist did a good video report on this. They looked particularly at Boston in Lincolnshire (where my parents lived, I know it well) because it's probably the main agricultural area in the UK.

I'm a Remain, but I'm not a head-in-the-sand Remain. People have real grievances. Time to take a look at them. Not everybody has the capacity to go to uni, but everyone should have the right to decent work SND decent pay.


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[RuthW]

And here's a report about Poles who come to the UK and think there are "too many brown people."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d-11e6-9e16-4cf01a41decb_story.html?tid=sm_tw

I think it ain't so straightforward this story about Brexit.


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[tim2000s]

And here's a report about Poles who come to the UK and think there are "too many brown people."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d-11e6-9e16-4cf01a41decb_story.html?tid=sm_tw

I think it ain't so straightforward this story about Brexit.


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The majority of Poles didn't have the right to vote in the referendum though...


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[KevinPotts]

The majority of Poles didn't have the right to vote in the referendum though...


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I was also astonished by yesterday's revelation in the Andrew Marr show that 62% of 18-30s did vote in the referendum, not the paltry 30%ish that had been reported anecdotally.

So a little lower than the 72% average total
turn out, but significantly more than many of us gave them credit for

To my mind adds more weight and credibility to the Leave camp...and that's from a Remain voter!


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[zand]

And here's a report about Poles who come to the UK and think there are "too many brown people."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d-11e6-9e16-4cf01a41decb_story.html?tid=sm_tw

I think it ain't so straightforward this story about Brexit.


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Yes that's true. I've witnessed that myself and it was very unpleasant. My family and I were queuing for bowling on holiday a few years back. The Polish assistant ignored a black family in front of us and came straight to us. Not understanding why she did this, I said that the other family were here first. It wasn't until I saw how rude the assistant was to the family before us and how nice she was to my family that I realised it was racism. I was shocked I hadn't witnessed that since the 70s in Paris where there were still whites only bars.

Oh and yes, I did complain to the manager.

 

[Brunneria]

Agreed

In my working life, I have generally found women to be better at the same jobs than men.
Better at planning and better at execution.
They often lack some self confidence, which I really don't understand.

Both things (planning/execution and lack of self confidence) contribute to being more conscientious.
If you are not confident about what you are doing, you take more care and pay more attention.

Of course these are sweeping generalisations.

I have also noticed that many women are less likely to speak up when they need to, and are less likely to fight their corner - even when they KNOW they are right.

 

[hankjam]

And here's a report about Poles who come to the UK and think there are "too many brown people."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d-11e6-9e16-4cf01a41decb_story.html?tid=sm_tw

I think it ain't so straightforward this story about Brexit.


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Sadly every tribe has another tribe some of them look down on to varying degrees. In that sense we are all the same.

 

[hankjam]

Leadsom quits race to be Tory Leader / PM....

Interesting times.... @KevinPotts

 

[KevinPotts]

Leadsom quits race to be Tory Leader / PM....

Interesting times.... @KevinPotts

Indeed, as we thought an easy walk into 10 Downing Street for May

Getting to the nits and grits of "BREXIT means BREXIT" will be the next focus, but I think the Leavers may accept a compromised exit of the sort I have repeatedly outlined in view of the mass e economic and political instability, so social unrest may not be on the agenda, thank God


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