It doesn't have to turn out like that Panorama programme suggested

[Oldvatr]

Having attended a Bariatric Surgery support group some years prior to the assessment, which was actually run by the dietician I mentioned earlier, I decided against it because at that time (procedure has now changed) they were liquidising chocolate and ice cream to get their calorie intake up to 1200 cals per day. At that time I was eating about 1500 cals a day, don't eat chocolate or ice cream so cutting out 300 was a doddle when I cut the carbs, in fact went down to about 900 cals per day.

Blowing my own trumpet, and everyone else who successfully cuts carbs, it takes some effort. Despite medical advice it hasn't caused me personally any problems, in fact feel quite good, usually. How do we, the enlightened diabetics (could we all be wrong?) encourage other diabetics who may not have access to computers, haven't bothered looking into what diabetes means or basically has never seen one of the forums, to at least look at what we're trying to say.

I don't have an answer to this. I did try to join a Support group run by the other lot (DUK) but they don't have an active group in my county any more. I also tried some of our local GP practices to see if they had any info on local diabetes groups, but there was nothing being offered. The local Library also turned up no results. DUK do have an office in a nearby town, but every time I ring them, I find myself talking to a fund raiser who asks me if I want to make donation or a will bequest. No I want info please. Then I am told to visist local library or GP surgery to pick up leaflets. Was at said suregery earlier today, and they have not had leaflets for a long time.

Well done on your progress, and good to see you so positive about your diet, As you say, we need to spread the word, I saw my health care assistant this morning and she was very pleased with my recent record, and is really pleased that I have a diet that gives such positive results. She is going to follow up on LCHF and this forum since she sees many diabetics in the practice. My GP is also quite enlightened, but unfortunately is on sick leave himself at the moment. I see a locum next week for my annual MOT.

 

[Freema]

I am very tempted by the idea of making a spoof Panorama vid - The Silent Survivors - and posting it on YouTube. Am I evil?

thats an amazing idea... and then maybe ask the BBC to show it in prime time so people know there is a nother turn of the road...

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

I am very tempted by the idea of making a spoof Panorama vid - The Silent Survivors - and posting it on YouTube. Am I evil?

Suggestion for script.

Disappointment and wonderment when surgeon doesn't have to recommend an amputation.

Carb count going up as matey boy loads up his bowl with 4 weetabix and cheerios (whatever they were).

 

[Nicksu]

The sad thing about the programme I thought was that nowhere (but please correct me if I am wrong!) is that no mention of seeing a dietician was made. If they want to reduce the costs to the NHS then they should do more to educate - not criticise (and let's face it criticism without being constructive is absolutely useless). Give people the tools to manage their condition. Soap box vent over!

 

[Oldvatr]

Suggestion for script.

Disappointment and wonderment when surgeon doesn't have to recommend an amputation.

Carb count going up as matey boy loads up his bowl with 4 weetabix and cheerios (whatever they were).

But carb count going up is exactly what Eatwell#2 is about. High Carb Low Fat is the current mantra/ Anyway, Joe Public wouldn't recognise a carb if upped and bit them in the posterior. Would need some explanation of the direct link between excess glucose (sorry, sugar [show picture of sugar so it is clear what is being talked about]) and carb in diet first.

 

[Tabbyjoolz]

The sad thing about the programme I thought was that nowhere (but please correct me if I am wrong!) is that no mention of seeing a dietician was made. If they want to reduce the costs to the NHS then they should do more to educate - not criticise (and let's face it criticism without being constructive is absolutely useless). Give people the tools to manage their condition. Soap box vent over!

@Nicksu - yes, I was particularly annoyed when the boy was asked what he'd eaten for dinner last night. His reply, "curry and a chapatti", was met with "that's too much!" No questions about portion size or suggestions of alternatives.

Similarly, my husband, on his last visit to the doctor, was told he "should try harder" to lose weight and get his BS down, even though over the years he has lost several stone and is on loads of medication. When my husband asked him to explain exactly how, when he had already pared his (old) diet to the bone and was exercising as much as he could, the doctor roared, "have soup and bread for dinner, like me!"

This is the same doctor I avoid like the plague - the so-called diabetes "expert".

Yes, we have a battle on our hands.

 

[Nicksu]

@Nicksu - yes, I was particularly annoyed when the boy was asked what he'd eaten for dinner last night. His reply, "curry and a chapatti", was met with "that's too much!" No questions about portion size or suggestions of alternatives.

Similarly, my husband, on his last visit to the doctor, was told he "should try harder" to lose weight and get his BS down, even though over the years he has lost several stone and is on loads of medication. When my husband asked him to explain exactly how, when he had already pared his (old) diet to the bone and was exercising as much as he could, the doctor roared, "have soup and bread for dinner, like me!"

This is the same doctor I avoid like the plague - the so-called diabetes "expert".

Yes, we have a battle on our hands.

My parents were met with much the same when they went to see their GP. My father was told "your sugars are rather high - try to improve them" but no information as to how to do this! Beggars belief! Anyway, mum has now bought a monitor so she can see how her levels go (the same as mine so I can supply her with any of the extras that are needed i.e. strips and lancets), but it just amazes me that the GPs are not more proactive. Father's problem is unfortunately portion size!

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

But carb count going up is exactly what Eatwell#2 is about. High Carb Low Fat is the current mantra/ Anyway, Joe Public wouldn't recognise a carb if upped and bit them in the posterior. Would need some explanation of the direct link between excess glucose (sorry, sugar [show picture of sugar so it is clear what is being talked about]) and carb in diet first.

Please allow me to explain:

You have to imagine that I'm writing a spoof script, I've already established that carbs are bad in an earlier part of my program. So we picture the same man loading up his bowl with weetabix and cheerios with a little counter showing his carb count. If necessary have the counter showing bits to be amputated and eye sight to be lost as the carb count goes higher.

Sorry if it's a lousy idea, I'm not a script writer. I'm not so worried about Joe Public because it's obvious that there are those who can handle carbs, those that can't end up diabetic. It's those with type II that need to be told that eating carbs at the rate they are advised to do by the NHS are the ones who end up with diabetes.

 

[markastin]

Also factually very incorrect. The description of the difference between T1 and T2 is that T1s are born with the condition. Really? *** no wonder we all struggle explaining this stuff to non diabetics.

We may not be born with the condition, however the way type 1 is we are born and if it is going to happen then it will and we are powerless until diagnosis! Can't see them making a program about type 1 I think they would get that really wrong.

 

[markastin]

I personally found that program interesting but at the same time I am no expert with type 2. I thought it was aimed more at the nhs cost and proved that they are looking for cop out ways to save money rather than graft to change people's lives. I am type 1 and only for 10 months so far, seeing some of the complications did slightly open my eyes. Although the most common complication retinopathy was hardly mentioned.

 

[MikeTurin]

Sorry if it's a lousy idea, I'm not a script writer. I'm not so worried about Joe Public because it's obvious that there are those who can handle carbs, those that can't end up diabetic. It's those with type II that need to be told that eating carbs at the rate they are advised to do by the NHS are the ones who end up with diabetes.

I've watched the programme. It seemed to me tat the basic idea was to show some gory medical procedure and then that was backtracket to talk about diabetes. No mention of retinophathy, autonomic neuropathy, increase stroke an hearh failures. They had talked for brief moments of the problems of smoke and diabetes combined.

Now I suppose that interviewing, say, Tom Hanks wasn't fitting for their storytelling, because seems to me they played it for the drama an not for the comedy (any reference on Hanks career before and after Philadelphia is purely coincidental)

The sad part is they never once mentioned that it is possible to reverse T2. They looked on the worst case scenario as if we deliberately had the disease. I've ended up with it due to medication and stress, but I am prepared to do something about it - not let it rule my life.
The power of positive thought (and low carb diet!) (and proactive helpful GPs) is never to be underestimated.

I prefer to say successfully control the diabetes, because once the damage is done one couldn't go back and the beast will return untamed if one ignores it. Having a proactive and helpul GP that motivates everyone to live better is the way to go. Making a splatter movie doesn't work.

 

[James2]

Following last night's Panorama programme, I think we may get new forum members and readers, and I wanted to reassure them that being a Type 2 diabetic does NOT automatically lead to horrendous complications, amputations, misery, trauma and aggressive invasive surgery. There is a huge amount we can do to control the condition and reduce our chances of diabetic complications.

We have a whole thread of the most wonderful success stories to prove it.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/low-carb-success-stories.3763/
it is currently running at 24 pages of posts from people who feel a darn sight better than those shown on Panorama!

As far as I can see, that programme was designed to shock and frighten, count the cost to the NHS and attempt to drive people into weight loss and surgery to save bankrupting the NHS.

Well, there are alternatives, and believe me when I say that they work amazingly well.

Type 2s can improve their health by
- lowering their blood glucose (diet, exercise, medication, fasting)
- careful use of medication (there is a whole range of meds from Meformin up to Insulin)
- monitoring their blood glucose on a daily basis, at home, allowing them to work out which foods are driving their blood glucose up, and teaching them how to reduce portions or avoid that food completely, in order to bring their blood glucose down to target.

Type 2s CAN change their eating habits and lead a much healthier and happier life - but it requires a change of diet and lifestyle. Personally, I would rather give up wheatabix and frosties and milk chocolate than lose my legs.

Here are a few links that may help:

This link explains in under a minute, the way to reduce carbs but still eat an enjoyable and satisfying diet.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/60-seconds
It is known as the LCHF way of eating

For people who want a more structured, gradual approach, there is a Low Carb Programme run by diabetes.co.uk which shows you how to lower your carb intake over a 10 week period and tailor you diet to suit you personally.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/lowcarb/

Some people are finding that they can actually REVERSE their type 2 diabetes using Low Carbing or very low calorie diets such as the Newcastle Diet (800 calories a day for 8 weeks), because it reduces the fat in their liver, allowing it and the pancreas to function better, and produce enough insulin to control blood glucose again.
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2016/03March/Pages/Could-a-very-low-calorie-diet-cure-type-2-diabetes.aspx
you may also have heard of the 800 calorie Bloodsugar Diet. This is similar to the Newcastle Diet but uses real food instead of diet shakes
https://thebloodsugardiet.com/

Some people are finding that missing meals (known as Intermittent Fasting) is lowering blood glucose and insulin resistance and helping with weight loss.
You can find out more here:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/

Exercise can also be remarkably effective, but I haven't focussed on it, because many type 2s feel too drained and tired to exercise, until they get their blood glucose down to a good level. At that point, go for it!

ALL of the above are FREE

Monitoring your own blood glucose can be done at home, at a reasonable personal cost. It will tell you how well you are managing your type 2 diabetes, and give you very important information on what foods are driving it up. This is known as Eating To Your Meter, and is, in my opinion, the single most powerful tool in the type 2 toolbox. Most doctors refuse to supply type 2s with a blood glucose meter saying it isn't appropriate. The real reason is cost to the NHS. So many of us buy our own. There are many different meters, but many of us here on the forum go for the SD Codefree since you can get a pot of 50 test strips for about £7, which I consider a bargain. ( I won't include a link, because I don't want to look like I am promoting a particular brand, but shop around before you buy - there are some very expensive ones out there if you are not careful and you need to bear in mind repeat costs when you buy more test strips)

Forum members can offer plenty of help and support on all of these diets, testing, and type 2 management. Just ask.

 

[James2]

Hi
I am newly diagnosed type 2 what i saw on the program echoed my experience from the medical profession , i felt overwhelmed by it this is why i joined this forum
regards
James 2

 

[Oldvatr]

It is quite clear that there is a very powerful lobby group behind the bariatric surgeons that are taking over the BBC. Someone has a vested interest in this since Inside Out has now had 3 transmissions showing basically the same story and footage without expanding the remit one iota. We have the proof in these three successive programs by the same team with the same twisted message. At least ITV had a small insert on advances in diet control to offset the snuff movie.

We have seen a flurry of news reports with exactly the same theme being pushed out by the Beeb, and also in the press in general, so someone has a lot of money to burn. They are playing their Trump card. We have also seem powerful fiction being peddled to advocate Eatwell and HCLF diets, and attempts to stop GP's supporting LCHF. so it is clear those in power are getting rattled by recent advances in diabetes care.

 

[MikeTurin]

We have also seem powerful fiction being peddled to advocate Eatwell and HCLF diets, and attempts to stop GP's supporting LCHF. so it is clear those in power are getting rattled by recent advances in diabetes care.

I think that for the diet the things could be different because there are a lot of oddball and really oddball diets that people follow, and corporations that push books and products reelated to these diet regimes to obviously make money.
I suppose that a GP after have heard of alkaline diet, blood type diet, cabbage diet, Slim Fast, Weight watchers, and so on when heads about LCHF automatically thinks bad about it and proposes to stick to official guidelines.
After read some time this forum I've the impression that a few LCHF advocates tend to be a bit too vocal, generating the same bad rap that vegans have. Iknow a nice woman that is vegan, she's very smart, works as a chemical engineer, and can cook very well, and doesn't pester other people if they're eating scrambled eggs with cheese and spinaches (that is vegetarian by the way...), she makes tasty vegan food. She's not the typical vegan troll you find on Facebook. that one associates to vegans...
The net result is that I ask her recipes!

 

[Oldvatr]

I think that for the diet the things could be different because there are a lot of oddball and really oddball diets that people follow, and corporations that push books and products reelated to these diet regimes to obviously make money.
I suppose that a GP after have heard of alkaline diet, blood type diet, cabbage diet, Slim Fast, Weight watchers, and so on when heads about LCHF automatically thinks bad about it and proposes to stick to official guidelines.
After read some time this forum I've the impression that a few LCHF advocates tend to be a bit too vocal, generating the same bad rap that vegans have. Iknow a nice woman that is vegan, she's very smart, works as a chemical engineer, and can cook very well, and doesn't pester other people if they're eating scrambled eggs with cheese and spinaches (that is vegetarian by the way...), she makes tasty vegan food. She's not the typical vegan troll you find on Facebook. that one associates to vegans...
The net result is that I ask her recipes!

I was the same when I first heard of it too. I was very sceptical of the claims being made, and did a lot of research of published studies before I tried it. Once I took the plunge (well, dipped a toe in the water) then it made my GP sit up and listen to me. My results all round have been (in his words) magnificent, and I have been taken off my Consultants list - honorably discharged, I no longer need Specialist care , or insulin conversion training, so I am happy to say I do LCHF and proud of it.

My comments were made in respect of the press coverage, and a small group of professionals who are getting greater coverage than one would normally expect from a so called independent organisation. 3 programs on the same topic at prime viewing time in succession is suspicious. Even the footage screened was repeating and there was no real attempt to show any alternative treatments. If LCHF was a flash in the pan diet like many you quote, then there would not be so many showing benefit from it after several years. I have done it for a year now without lapse, and am intending to use it as a lifestyle change, not a diet/

 

[Nicksu]

I was the same when I first heard of it too. I was very sceptical of the claims being made, and did a lot of research of published studies before I tried it. Once I took the plunge (well, dipped a toe in the water) then it made my GP sit up and listen to me. My results all round have been (in his words) magnificent, and I have been taken off my Consultants list - honorably discharged, I no longer need Specialist care , or insulin conversion training, so I am happy to say I do LCHF and proud of it.

My comments were made in respect of the press coverage, and a small group of professionals who are getting greater coverage than one would normally expect from a so called independent organisation. 3 programs on the same topic at prime viewing time in succession is suspicious. Even the footage screened was repeating and there was no real attempt to show any alternative treatments. If LCHF was a flash in the pan diet like many you quote, then there would not be so many showing benefit from it after several years. I have done it for a year now without lapse, and am intending to use it as a lifestyle change, not a diet/

And that's the whole point - it has to be a lifestyle change, not a "diet", otherwise folks would just fall off the wagon and backslide to old habits. We have the tools to change things, its a case of having the mindset to do it (and persuading your GP to co-operate!).

 

[Art Of Flowers]

I watch the Panorama program before I was diagnosed as T2 and again afterwards because I remembered there were some dire consequences if you don't take steps to reduce your blood sugar. I asked my diabetes nurse and she said that three of her patients had to have amputations and she said the reason was that they left it too late to take corrective action.

Whilst the program was alarming and perhaps distressing to some, perhaps some need a kick up the **** in order to take action to reduce the their blood sugar, such as that guy on the program who kept eating his kids chocolate bars.

I also watch the Welsh program on the LCHF diet and was interested to see the good results experienced by diabetics, but was dismayed to see the advice by some dietitians who suggest eating carbs and reduce fat. The government really needs to wake up to the problems of obesity and diabetes caused by the huge amount of sugar and carbohydrate in people's diet. There is a sugar tax on fizzy drinks coming in 2018, but this needs to be followed up by taxing high sugar content of breakfast cereals and other common foodstuffs.

 

[tonal]

Great idea @Brunneria
@Administrator can we make this a sticky in the new joiners area or even better as I have suggested before make it part of a pack that all new joiners get when they sign up for the forum.
Thanks
Mark

 

[tonal]

newly widowed and trying to go back to basics lchf - what to cook for one? All ideas welcome.