Hunger Pangs

[Kristin251]

Lol. Score a goal with the goal post being moved!!!! Funny but it certainly applies !!!

It really is that easy. Eat your desired carb amount, moderate your protein and add some healthy fats. Done. I wouldn't want to swig cream either ( well maybe but I don't ). And you don't have to. Nor do you need to dump butter on everything. The calculators always way over estimate my needs. I eat about 1000 Cal's a day but I never count them on any kind of regular basis.

1 avocado = 250 Cal's, 15 carb 12 fiber and 25 fat 4 protein
45 G protein = 180 Cal's and sometimes some fat
Ounce of nuts and seeds 200 cal 3-4 protein 18 fat
2 tablespoons mayo = 20 fat, 200 Cal's
A handful or two of veggies = 10 carbs 40 Cal's

So 870 Cal's, 50 protein, 63 fat 20 carbs.
There's a few other odds and ends I eat and the 870 doesn't include fats in proteins. Somedays I eat more and some less but this is my basic daily menu and it works. I only count carbs and protein Andy eat as much or as little fat as I want on that particular day. My weight has been steady same same for over 25 years. Unless I over eat of course.

Simple as that

 

[ghost_whistler]

Lol. Score a goal with the goal post being moved!!!! Funny but it certainly applies !!!

It really is that easy. Eat your desired carb amount, moderate your protein and add some healthy fats. Done. I wouldn't want to swig cream either ( well maybe but I don't ). And you don't have to. Nor do you need to dump butter on everything. The calculators always way over estimate my needs. I eat about 1000 Cal's a day but I never count them on any kind of regular basis.

1 avocado = 250 Cal's, 15 carb 12 fiber and 25 fat 4 protein
45 G protein = 180 Cal's and sometimes some fat
Ounce of nuts and seeds 200 cal 3-4 protein 18 fat
2 tablespoons mayo = 20 fat, 200 Cal's
A handful or two of veggies = 10 carbs 40 Cal's

So 870 Cal's, 50 protein, 63 fat 20 carbs.
There's a few other odds and ends I eat and the 870 doesn't include fats in proteins. Somedays I eat more and some less but this is my basic daily menu and it works. I only count carbs and protein Andy eat as much or as little fat as I want on that particular day. My weight has been steady same same for over 25 years. Unless I over eat of course.

Simple as that

your daily intake is 870cals?

Well if it works for you, but still that's awfully low!

 

[Kristin251]

Closer to 1000. I said I had some odds and ends as well.
And itt does work beautifully for me. Most people way over eat their calorie needs. I am not fat but I do have some fat and if I eat more I get more fat. This tells me my body is storing excess calories.
I used to eat 3 lean cuisines or weight watcher frozen meals per day and that's was about it for food. I still eat that SIZE meal plus some snacks but much healthier foods.

Quality over quantity for me

 

[ghost_whistler]

I'm seriously thinking to add some carbs, perhaps up to 100 and see how i feel.

Clearly something needs to change. I can't even discuss this WOE with my gp; she called it 'starvation mode'

 

[bulkbiker]

Because LCHF is indicated for dealing with blood sugar instability, by all its advocates.
The only other solution, and the only one advocated by all the doctors i've spoken to (including specialists), is "eat complex carbohydrates, and have more and smaller meals", which just masks the problem by having you eat more.

LCHF is also indicated for weight loss and if i can get to my ideal weight a number of these issues might also resolve themselves. Certainly being 20kg overweight is never idea.

Not sure that is correct.. Type 2's tend to use Keto for bringing down their hyperglycaemia and holding it down.
The Type 1's I have seen here doing it are also trying to keep their levels constant and use less insulin.
If you are hypoglycaemic then lowering your blood sugar even more would seem to be counterproductive and may explain why your body is screaming out for more to eat?
Do you actually measure your blood sugar levels when you are having these episodes?

 

[ghost_whistler]

Not sure that is correct.. Type 2's tend to use Keto for bringing down their hyperglycaemia and holding it down.
The Type 1's I have seen here doing it are also trying to keep their levels constant and use less insulin.
If you are hypoglycaemic then lowering your blood sugar even more would seem to be counterproductive and may explain why your body is screaming out for more to eat?
Do you actually measure your blood sugar levels when you are having these episodes?

I have done. But i do not have unlimited testing facilities. The results are low. However my GP jus tthink i have a 'reactive metabolism', not sure what kind of diagnosis that is. I just put it down to carb sensitivity, which is why i chose to cut carbs.

 

[Kristin251]

If you have RH carbs will most likely spike insulin too high and you could hypo soon after. Guess you'll just need to keep,testing and testing.

 

[AndBreathe]

@ghost_whistler - Whilst I did suggest you take a couple of spoonfuls of cream between meals, you needn't. You could add it to foods, for example to the gravy on a meat dish, to make a lovely creamy sauce, or adding some to wilted spinach, making closer to creamed spinach.

If you don't want to snack, why not just try eating more of what you have been doing, and see if that helps.

In my view, doing a direct switch from very strict keto to 100gr carb a day, you may experience headaches or tummy disturbances as your body may get a bit of a shock when the carbs are added.

It's up to you, but it's striking me you're not an incremental person; more all or nothing. That makes finding balance trickier, just as I bet you don't play your stereo/radio or whatever at either absolutely full volume or mute. You're more likely to enjoy moderate volume.

 

[bulkbiker]

I have done. But i do not have unlimited testing facilities. The results are low. However my GP jus tthink i have a 'reactive metabolism', not sure what kind of diagnosis that is. I just put it down to carb sensitivity, which is why i chose to cut carbs.

And what were the numbers?

 

[ghost_whistler]

@ghost_whistler - Whilst I did suggest you take a couple of spoonfuls of cream between meals, you needn't. You could add it to foods, for example to the gravy on a meat dish, to make a lovely creamy sauce, or adding some to wilted spinach, making closer to creamed spinach.

If you don't want to snack, why not just try eating more of what you have been doing, and see if that helps.

In my view, doing a direct switch from very strict keto to 100gr carb a day, you may experience headaches or tummy disturbances as your body may get a bit of a shock when the carbs are added.

It's up to you, but it's striking me you're not an incremental person; more all or nothing. That makes finding balance trickier, just as I bet you don't play your stereo/radio or whatever at either absolutely full volume or mute. You're more likely to enjoy moderate volume.

I don't completely object to snacking as I will do if I have to. I just want to have a stable metabolism and that seemed to be one of the effects of keto adaptation. For instance I just had a little cocked chicen and a tablespoon of cream. Not sure it's enough though. But then nothing seems to be

I don't think i would immediately go up to 100. I would do it the atkins way, incrementally to find what was comfortable.

Clearly something has to change. My body is obviously craving something. What that is I don't know.

 

[ghost_whistler]

And what were the numbers?

Less than 3.9, I don't remember exactly.

 

[paul5040]

I don't completely object to snacking as I will do if I have to. I just want to have a stable metabolism and that seemed to be one of the effects of keto adaptation. For instance I just had a little cocked chicen and a tablespoon of cream. Not sure it's enough though. But then nothing seems to be

I don't think i would immediately go up to 100. I would do it the atkins way, incrementally to find what was comfortable.

Clearly something has to change. My body is obviously craving something. What that is I don't know.

how about food ?

 

[ghost_whistler]

how about food ?

It must be something specific though, because this is new. Even on a carb based diet I didn't get like this. So either i'm not eating enough protein or fat (or even carbs), or my metabolism just doesn't like keto, or some nutrient or something.

I'm waking up with crippling hunger at around 1-2am every night. This is really not good. I had some chicken from a bedside lunchbox i prepared. But this is not the way to be surely!

 

[Chook]

Why not have a very late supper?

I think a lot of us are struggling with this because if we are eating enough of the correct foods we just don't get hungry on a very low carb way of eating. Once you get the carbs out of the way it is rare for hunger to get triggered. I fast quite a lot (by choice) yet because I'm adapted to running on fat I only get the munchies after about 20-22 hours after my last meal and even then a mug of Bovril or large glass of water sorts it out. The only time I feel real hunger is when I've eaten a few too many carbs at the previous meal. I don't count 'cravings' as proper hunger. I get cravings for all sorts of things but if I gave in to them I'd be the size of a house.

Maybe this way of eating just doesn't suit your body - I know some people find it a struggle. Maybe you need to move on to trying something different. Although it might be an idea to get a proper diagnosis of what (if anything) is actually wrong with you so you can then do some research on which way would be the best nutritional path for you to follow.

Have you tried Paleo?

 

[azure]

I have done. But i do not have unlimited testing facilities. The results are low. However my GP jus tthink i have a 'reactive metabolism', not sure what kind of diagnosis that is. I just put it down to carb sensitivity, which is why i chose to cut carbs.

Apart from the 14 you had...which was what made me suggest the Postprandial Hypotension as a possible cause.

I appreciate that doesn't answer your hunger issues, but hunger is more common than you think. Not being facetious there - it really is. Some people can go for hours without food and feel fine, others feel like they could eat a horse. I'm the latter. Perhaps you are too?

 

[ghost_whistler]

Apart from the 14 you had...which was what made me suggest the Postprandial Hypotension as a possible cause.

I appreciate that doesn't answer your hunger issues, but hunger is more common than you think. Not being facetious there - it really is. Some people can go for hours without food and feel fine, others feel like they could eat a horse. I'm the latter. Perhaps you are too?

I have no explanation for that result. I also don't rule out hypotension. Middle of this week i should get my bloodwork back and from there I will have abetter picture of what's happening. But its clear that i need to alter my diet. I'm thinking of adding 50g lentils. That's about 8g carb which, within what I do eat, may well only take me a few g's above 20 anyway (as if that number really means anything). I had another bad night and while hunger certainly can be prosaic, this kind of issue is, IMO, not. When I discussed it with a doctor I was essentially sent home with a flea in my ear: diet being the elephant in the room. I certainly don't want to go back to a carb level that potentially leaves me vulnerable to crashes, but this keto experiment, I feel, has failed: I ate an enormous breakfast - two hours later... no, this isn't normal, certainly not like this

 

[azure]

I know I keep going on about snacks, but that's because I find they help, even if only in a psychological way - that is, knowing I'm going to be eating very soon. I find the gaps between meals can seem long.

It's sensible to experiment with your diet. Hopefully, you'll gradually find what works for you. Don't worry about what others do - find your own individual diet

 

[azure]

You've just quoted me saying it doesn't sate me.

Which proves my point.... Your original objection was the carbs, when that was dealt with, it then became the satiety value.

I know you think I'm having digs at you, but I wouldn't be spending so much time answering you if I didn't care about your situation.

Ignoring the physical symptoms you have, I think you're looking for a certainty that just isn't there. No one knows what the perfect diet is, and if they did it might not be perfect for everyone.

Life's complicated - both health/diet-wise and decision-wise. All we can do is make our own considered decisions and keep moving forward

 

[Kristin251]

I'm still thinking you are eating too much!!! Setting off all kinds of hormone reactions. That's why fasting works so well for some people. I'm not suggesting fasting but eating 'enormous' amounts of food isnt good for anyone and surely is spiking insulin and leptin. Like azure, I like to eat every few hours but very small meals. Half an avocado and a slice of turkey size. Then 3-4 pecans a few hours later. Maybe a few olives.
Until you bring your insulin and leptin levels down the hunger most likely will not go away. Eat a normal meal. I small piece of chicken and some veggies and be done with it. Remember, protein spikes insulin and leptin almost as much as carbs so to be keto you NEED to watch protein just as much. Maybe try a fat fast for a day or two. Avocado, a few raw vlc veggies in a mayo based dip, egg Yolk ( no whites) and mayo. Atkins website has fat fast ideas or just google it. You need to bring down insulin and leptin or I'm afraid nothing will change.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Which proves my point.... Your original objection was the carbs, when that was dealt with, it then became the satiety value.

I know you think I'm having digs at you, but I wouldn't be spending so much time answering you if I didn't care about your situation.

Ignoring the physical symptoms you have, I think you're looking for a certainty that just isn't there. No one knows what the perfect diet is, and if they did it might not be perfect for everyone.

Life's complicated - both health/diet-wise and decision-wise. All we can do is make our own considered decisions and keep moving forward

Have we dealt with the carbs? If they were no longer an issue then I wouldn't be discussing this problem with hunger. The goalposts aren't shifting, i'm experiencing new problems and they need to be dealt with. I wasn't experiencing crippling night time hunger before, now I am. I don't know why, and no one i've spoken to in the keto communities on reddit, facebook and various other websites have a clear epxlanation why. Am I alone in this? Is my metabolism that unique? I can't imagine so.

It's not about a perfect diet, it's about fixing the problems I'm having right now, even if that means abandoning this diet.