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What would happen if...?

SueJB

SueJB

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,325
Location
Heaven
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
cold weather
Here's a bit of a cunundrum. I'm doing really well with keeping my BG in range. I went to bed at 4.6 and woke for no reason at 1.30am to 3.9mmol. Fruit pastille and back to sleep. Happy morning FBG @4.8 today

So, I'm not hungry and don't want anything to eat.
Question:
Will my body take care of itself if it drops below 3.9 or whatever the magic number is overnight, or have I got to eat something carby?
What would happen if I have a repeat of last night and don't wake for the 3.9?
 
Hi @SueJB I've slept through a 3.9 before and by the time I've woken the liver dump has picked me up at +4, it looks like a very gradual fall. I would be concerned about going to bed at 4.6 as I don't go to sleep at anything less than about 5.5, so would of had a snack of 10g of carb before bed.
 
I think it depends.

A few things to consider
- within the accepted tolerance of your meter, a BG of 3.9 could easily be higher than 4. It could be lower than 3.9. But the point is, it is not very low.
- if your BG rose to 4.8 after a fruit pastille, that is not very much. You may want to check your basal dose if it is causing your BG to fall overnight. As @Juicyj suggests, you may want to be a bit higher than 4.6 when you to bed.
- I understand the body may “take care of itself” but only when it gets to very low numbers. When I wake after such an occurrence, I have the worst hangover symptoms (terrible headache, feeling nauseous, ...) without the fun of the night before. I have been told this has something to do with my brain swelling when it does not have enough glucose. In other words, it not to be recommended.
 
Juicyj said:
Hi @SueJB I've slept through a 3.9 before and by the time I've woken the liver dump has picked me up at +4, it looks like a very gradual fall. I would be concerned about going to bed at 4.6 as I don't go to sleep at anything less than about 5.5, so would of had a snack of 10g of carb before bed.
Click to expand...
I think I knew the answer before I asked the question so thanks. I suppose it was fear. You obviously have a continuous monitor which must be reassuring. I had a little Aldi choc bar and a home made biscuit and woke 5.5 so I probably don't need to snack quite so much!!!
 
helensaramay said:
I think it depends.

A few things to consider
- within the accepted tolerance of your meter, a BG of 3.9 could easily be higher than 4. It could be lower than 3.9. But the point is, it is not very low.
- if your BG rose to 4.8 after a fruit pastille, that is not very much. You may want to check your basal dose if it is causing your BG to fall overnight. As @Juicyj suggests, you may want to be a bit higher than 4.6 when you to bed.
- I understand the body may “take care of itself” but only when it gets to very low numbers. When I wake after such an occurrence, I have the worst hangover symptoms (terrible headache, feeling nauseous, ...) without the fun of the night before. I have been told this has something to do with my brain swelling when it does not have enough glucose. In other words, it not to be recommended.
Click to expand...
Thanks @helensaramay. What do you mean "check my basal dose"? I thought that basal dose lasted 12-16hrs
I think I'm going to have to start checking my BG before bed but don't you think it's irritating that you have to eat stuff when you're not hungry?
 
SueJB said:
Thanks @helensaramay. What do you mean "check my basal dose"? I thought that basal dose lasted 12-16hrs
I think I'm going to have to start checking my BG before bed but don't you think it's irritating that you have to eat stuff when you're not hungry?
Click to expand...
My biggest pet hate.
Having to eat..... at all.
Eating just causes all my variables. Looking forward to not being so hungry at good bg times (after bariatric surgery) and food messing my good bgs up. Humf!
 
ickihun said:
My biggest pet hate.
Having to eat..... at all.
Eating just causes all my variables. Looking forward to not being so hungry at good bg times (after bariatric surgery) and food messing my good bgs up. Humf!
Click to expand...
Hope all goes well for you.
 
SueJB said:
I think I knew the answer before I asked the question so thanks. I suppose it was fear. You obviously have a continuous monitor which must be reassuring. I had a little Aldi choc bar and a home made biscuit and woke 5.5 so I probably don't need to snack quite so much!!!
Click to expand...

Your BG levels are really good I suffer a lot more variables overnight so I self fund the libre sensor as it gives me a good overnight picture, Helen mentioned about checking your basal by doing some basal fasting tests, however as I said if you can ensure you are around 5.5 before bed and wake within 1-1.5 mmol/l of this then your basal levels are fine. 3.9 is borderline and could be a meter inconsistency if you dropping much more then yes do some basal fasting tests to check it’s the right basal dose :)
 
I'm going to raise a bit of caution here. The problem with going low at night is how low you go. Yes, if your blood sugar is only in the high or mid 3s your liver will probably pump out glycogen and you won't know you've been hypo BUT

If it goes really really low you can have a seizure and potentially even die. (And this is one reason why you should always be careful about night time blood sugars if you've been drinking alcohol, as your liver will be concentrating on the alcohol and not on raising any errant low blood sugars).

Like @Juicyj I wouldn't go to bed without snacking on a blood sugar of less than 5.5. Maybe you could ask your diabetic clinic for advice on the critical level below which you snack (and how much to snack) but I personally do always blood test at night just to make sure everything is OK.

And yes, it totally sucks to be forced to eat when you're not hungry, just to raise blood sugar.:)
 
Juicyj said:
Your BG levels are really good I suffer a lot more variables overnight so I self fund the libre sensor as it gives me a good overnight picture, Helen mentioned about checking your basal by doing some basal fasting tests, however as I said if you can ensure you are around 5.5 before bed and wake within 1-1.5 mmol/l of this then your basal levels are fine. 3.9 is borderline and could be a meter inconsistency if you dropping much more then yes do some basal fasting tests to check it’s the right basal dose :)
Click to expand...
Thanks for such sound and reassuring advice and kind words. I was thinking about getting a libre sensor but perhaps I'll wait for a bit but the idea of not having to prick and guess between doing so would be magic.
 
EllieM said:
I'm going to raise a bit of caution here. The problem with going low at night is how low you go. Yes, if your blood sugar is only in the high or mid 3s your liver will probably pump out glycogen and you won't know you've been hypo BUT

If it goes really really low you can have a seizure and potentially even die. (And this is one reason why you should always be careful about night time blood sugars if you've been drinking alcohol, as your liver will be concentrating on the alcohol and not on raising any errant low blood sugars).

Like @Juicyj I wouldn't go to bed without snacking on a blood sugar of less than 5.5. Maybe you could ask your diabetic clinic for advice on the critical level below which you snack (and how much to snack) but I personally do always blood test at night just to make sure everything is OK.

And yes, it totally sucks to be forced to eat when you're not hungry, just to raise blood sugar.:)
Click to expand...
Thanks @EllieM. All advice, even if it is cautionary, is happily received. Thanks for the heads up on the wine drinking! I really do feel I get far more practical advice based on real knowledge and experience through this forum than the clinic.
 
Tony337 said:
That's why god and Tom Baker invented jelly babies..........

:)

Tony
Click to expand...
Are jelly babies better tasting than fruit pastilles?
jelly-babies.jpg
 
SueJB said:
Are jelly babies better tasting than fruit pastilles?
jelly-babies.jpg
Click to expand...

I have a tendency to over treat a hypo such is my love of jelly babies.
I am also a fan of Doctor Who and Tom Baker was the Doctor when I was growing up so jelly babies tick all my boxes.
:hungry:
"would you care for a jelly baby" he said offering a paper bag..............
If I tried that then I'd probably get arrested...........
 
Jelly babies require less effort and don't leave sugar crystals in your bed! Also fyi if your sugars are as fabulously normal as they sound then bear in mind your hypo tolerance level(level where you feel symptoms) may well be lower than the text book 4 but the fact you wake up to treat is a sign that a little something is needed.
 
Tony337 said:
I have a tendency to over treat a hypo such is my love of jelly babies.
I am also a fan of Doctor Who and Tom Baker was the Doctor when I was growing up so jelly babies tick all my boxes.
:hungry:
"would you care for a jelly baby" he said offering a paper bag..............
If I tried that then I'd probably get arrested...........
Click to expand...
Give a man control of a jelly paper bag and he would fill the world with..................................
 
SueJB said:
Question:
Will my body take care of itself if it drops below 3.9 or whatever the magic number is overnight, or have I got to eat something carby?
What would happen if I have a repeat of last night and don't wake for the 3.9?
Click to expand...

Your bets cells in your pancreas (that produce insulin) don't work. Your alpha cells (that produce glucagon in response to a hypo) do. So, yes if you have decent stocks of glucose in your liver (ie you eat a decent amount of carbs to keep your liver stocked) your body will take care of itself should you sleep though a hypo. BUT an alpha cell glucagon response is potentially your body's last means of defence against a hypo and saving your life. Over use of the alpha cell response does wear out the alpha cells and they will stop working. So you really shouldn't be routinely relying on an alpha cell response to sort out an overnight hypo. Also, the release of glucagon is a hormone that can make you feel pretty unwell and can result in a high from your body over treating the hypo.

Edit: a glucogon response to a hypo overnight will put you at significantly increased risk of hypos in the following days as your body will be prioritising restocking your livers glucose stores.
 
Last edited:
SueJB said:
Thanks @helensaramay. What do you mean "check my basal dose"? I thought that basal dose lasted 12-16hrs
I think I'm going to have to start checking my BG before bed but don't you think it's irritating that you have to eat stuff when you're not hungry?
Click to expand...
I mean, if your BG us dropping when you are asleep, your basal dose may be too high. I would not adjust it for one night but if it keeps happening, you may want to drop tour basal dose.
 
SueJB said:
Are jelly babies better tasting than fruit pastilles?
jelly-babies.jpg
Click to expand...
I found jelly babies easier to chew when my jaws had such little energy
 
Tony337 said:
I have a tendency to over treat a hypo such is my love of jelly babies.
I am also a fan of Doctor Who and Tom Baker was the Doctor when I was growing up so jelly babies tick all my boxes.
:hungry:
"would you care for a jelly baby" he said offering a paper bag..............
If I tried that then I'd probably get arrested...........
Click to expand...
When I saw Tom Baker last in our local supermarket, on South Coast. He didn't buy any.. . I was very disappointed. Ha ha
 
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