HAS ANYONE EVER CHALLENGED THE NHS EAT WELL PLATE/GUIDE RE DIABETICS?

[Oldvatr]

Ah PHE and the ever delightful Dr Alison Tedstone.. my anti heroine..

I had to change from Like to Informative to avoid any misconception that my Like was for said personage.

 

[SueJB]

Onwards and upwards. All for one and one for all.

onwards and downwards @Debandez lower numbers mean longer life for T1D

 

[Oldvatr]

Ah PHE and the ever delightful Dr Alison Tedstone.. my anti heroine..

I know we here lambast PHE as being responsible for Eatwell#2, but in fact it comes from SACN which looks after the scientific side of things. Here is a link to their website, and it has a registry of interests in pdf form that makes interesting reading. Some members seem to be making a tidy income from their involvement.
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/scientific-advisory-committee-on-nutrition
These are the people who really decide on what we should eat, and PHE is the customer interface providing sectretariat services, and publication / dissemintion of the info. Since we are also still in the EU, then the Europa comittee also sets guidelines that SACN are mandated to follow and that currently takes precedent over UK issues in the same way we are mandated to obey the EU Court of Justice.
https://ec.europa.eu/food/committees/paff_en

 

[JohnEGreen]

I wonder if any mods lived in serbia at all , д******а

Edited for language, Google translate is a marvellous invention!

 

[JohnEGreen]

or maybe in Belorussia
***************

Moderated for persisting in this manner and causing possible offence whilst derailing the thread.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

Beans and legumes appear in both, particularly red lentils, red beans and chickpeas. There maybe others.

I do not eat these at all, even before diagnosis of T2,as I was force fed lentils as a kid.

 

[JohnEGreen]

or maybe in Belorussia
***************

Moderated for persisting in this manner and causing possible offence whilst derailing the thread.

That was in the vein of Charlie Drake and merely said Hello My Darlings

Obviously no one speaks Belorussian just assumes the worst.

 

[JohnEGreen]

As to the OP yes people challenge the well plate all the time it is neccessary to challenge misdirected overbearing orthodoxy at all times I have challenged it to day by actually eating in accordance with it and in combination with my new meds dosage it's killing me blood sugars are through the roof so to any one who thinks it's good advice for a diabetic I say bullhide or something similar.

 

[mytype1.life]

I am newly diagnosed and got handed the diet sheet on Tuesday. I'd already been self testing for two weeks and engaging with this forum. When I saw the guidelines I was gobsmacked. I felt like I should ask if they had handed me the wrong thing.

Basically, eat bread and rice and other carbs as a big chunk of your diet. No thanks!

I feel so concerned for the people who fully accept what the doctors say and blindly follow the advice of the NHS. Surely it's not right to lead them down a path that will hurt them and cost the NHS more in the long run.

It’s crazy!
I looked back at the guidance when I was diagnosed when I was 5 years old.
I then googled the dietary guidance for diabetics for my local hospital and it’s exactly the SAME, 24 years later.

 

[Debandez]

We can eat anything apparently according to the .org site

Question = How can the 2 main diabetic websites give opposite advice? This one is the site on the back of my literature/booklets. DCUK I found when I input 'reversing diabetes' after diagnosis. Goodness knows where I would be if I hadn't found it and taken my hcp advise!

Take a look!

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/diabetes-the-basics/food-and-diabetes/i-have-type-2-diabetes

 

[briped]

I have never heard of the food pyramid either I am to old to have been taught that at school lol

This is the Danish food pyramid. I'm sure the UK one is very similar. Fun fact. In Danish its called 'mad pyramiden', but in one word.

 

[KK123]

I actually wonder if the NHS eatwell plate (over 20 years old?) was aimed at type 1 diabetics back then, when they were mostly (if not all) on a set amount of insulin at set times, like my Mum. Then of course, you were forced to eat carbs in order to counteract the fixed insulin you were on, if you didn't you were at serious risk of a hypo. Now it has changed to a flexible regime BUT has the eatwell guidance changed to go with it? I think not. In addition to that, maybe they have never bothered to distinguish the difference between type 1 and type 2 diabetes, so even the type 2's get lumped into this 'eatwell' advice on the basis that it's 'diabetes', you're all the same.

 

[Oldvatr]

I actually wonder if the NHS eatwell plate (over 20 years old?) was aimed at type 1 diabetics back then, when they were mostly (if not all) on a set amount of insulin at set times, like my Mum. Then of course, you were forced to eat carbs in order to counteract the fixed insulin you were on, if you didn't you were at serious risk of a hypo. Now it has changed to a flexible regime BUT has the eatwell guidance changed to go with it? I think not. In addition to that, maybe they have never bothered to distinguish the difference between type 1 and type 2 diabetes, so even the type 2's get lumped into this 'eatwell' advice on the basis that it's 'diabetes', you're all the same.

Yes it probablly did evolve as you say from insulin users on fixed basal regime, and has not evolved with MDI or pumps. So there is room for improvement and flexibility.

My mum was T1D, but most T2D eventually 'progressed' to being ID so the original premise was sound, espeeially since the role of carbs was not as well understood as it is today. The concept of carb counting came with MDI, but was not needed in the fixed basal regime where the concept of bolus was unheard of. Also the food labelling system was not in place, and nutrition apps with dietary calculations were not around even with home computers. Indeed my mum never saw or used a hand held bgl meter and used wee sticks all her life. Even in the hospice she had no access to SBGM.

With hindsight, and with the internet, prospects for control is much improved, and the shortcomings of Eatwell are being identified and discussed fairly openly. It was not always so, and it is easy to cast aspersions on what is an antiquated system that is reaching its NRD date. (Normal Retirement Date) Time it was pensioned off IMHO

 

[Bluetit1802]

This is the Danish food pyramid. I'm sure the UK one is very similar. Fun fact. In Danish its called 'mad pyramiden', but in one word.
View attachment 28480

LOL. That pyramid is upside down. Or at least, it ought to be.

 

[Debandez]

Yes it probablly did evolve as you say from insulin users on fixed basal regime, and has not evolved with MDI or pumps. So there is room for improvement and flexibility.

My mum was T1D, but most T2D eventually 'progressed' to being ID so the original premise was sound, espeeially since the role of carbs was not as well understood as it is today. The concept of carb counting came with MDI, but was not needed in the fixed basal regime where the concept of bolus was unheard of. Also the food labelling system was not in place, and nutrition apps with dietary calculations were not around even with home computers. Indeed my mum never saw or used a hand held bgl meter and used wee sticks all her life. Even in the hospice she had no access to SBGM.

With hindsight, and with the internet, prospects for control is much improved, and the shortcomings of Eatwell are being identified and discussed fairly openly. It was not always so, and it is easy to cast aspersions on what is an antiquated system that is reaching its NRD date. (Normal Retirement Date) Time it was pensioned off IMHO

It's hard to believe that they don't prescribe monitors and strips. These weren't available in bygone years but they come free in many cases now and are an amazing resource. What with that and mysugr app my BS are under control. Even if they just gave these out then people can come to their own conclusions re what to eat. My mum was t2d insulin dependant. I always thought she was t1d due to the insulin injections. But when I was diagnosed I verified it at my surgery. She was t2d. If you don't mind me asking about your mum so I understand, what happened that they moved her from 2 to 1? Thanks

 

[KK123]

It's hard to believe that they don't prescribe monitors and strips. These weren't available in bygone years but they come free in many cases now and are an amazing resource. What with that and mysugr app my BS are under control. Even if they just gave these out then people can come to their own conclusions re what to eat. My mum was t2d insulin dependant. I always thought she was t1d due to the insulin injections. But when I was diagnosed I verified it at my surgery. She was t2d. If you don't mind me asking about your mum so I understand, what happened that they moved her from 2 to 1? Thanks

Hi Debandez, I know you're not asking me but my Mum was diagnosed as diabetic when she was 50 (She died aged 82). Back then all me and my sisters knew was that she was started on insulin and remained on it. We assumed she was type 1 simply because of the insulin but knowing what we do now, we actually have NO idea whether she was type 1 or a type 2 on insulin. I'm guessing we will never know now, obviously back then if you were an adult on diagnosis I think they must have thought she was a type 2 but needed insulin. I know that no specific tests were done either way. I don't think Oldvatr was saying his Mum was moved from a 2 to a 1, just that she was a 1? (I'm sure he will clarify). It's all very interesting to me I have to say. We did ask the Doctors whether they knew what type my Mum was but from diagnosis to 82 they sort of said, who knows?, she just needs insulin. I wonder now whether she was type 2 back then and whether low carb would have meant no insulin and none of the terrible problems and hospitalisations that followed.

 

[Tabbyjoolz]

No, they bring grapes.

My husband brought me pork scratchings and almonds!!!!!

 

[bulkbiker]

My husband brought me pork scratchings and almonds!!!!!

Sounds like a keeper...

 

[Resurgam]

'But individuals who are doing Atkins control their carbohydrate intake and eat foods with so little glycemic impact that they can normalize their blood sugar and become latent diabetics. (This term applies to those people with the disease who are able to keep it under complete control)'
Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution the 2003 edition.
Two thousand and Three.
The first edition was ten years earlier, the work gathering evidence started long before that.
Though William Banting self published his Letter on Corpulence 100 years before Atkins went into print. The doctors did not want to know back then, either.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Cookery and Household Management
Printed 1936

Diabetes

Those suffering from this ailment require carefully to avoid all foods containing sugar and starch. The following Must be avoided:

Milk, sugar, flour, cornflour, oatmeal, rice, sago, macaroni, the various pulse foods, fruits containing a high percentage of sugar, potatoes, beets, carrots, peas, parsnips, broad beans, spanish onions.

The following are allowed:

meat, soups, fish, poultry, game and meat of all kinds. Also eggs, butter, cream, cheese, certain vegetables. Light dry wines. Weak unsweetened spirits. Tea, coffee and cocoa which may be sweetened with saccharine. There may be plentiful use of butter, cream, fat and oils if the digestion will allow.