Type 2 Carbs And The Doctor/dn

[Brunneria]

I have in front of me now the Diabetes UK 'Your Guide to Type 2 Diabetes' published in 2014. It takes 36 pages before it reaches food at all. On that page there is a recommendation to eat between 5 and 14 portions of starchy foods (ie bread, rice, potatoes or pasta) per day, one third of your diet. This is the eat well plate.

Tucked away on page 39 is: "the amount of carbohydrate you eat has the biggest influence on your blood glucose levels after meals" (my bolding). On the same page though is the suggestion to add baked beans to a jacket potato and salad for lunch.

If I tried to eat that many carbs a day my insulin resistance and blood glucose levels would be astronomical. I would probably have to go straight to insulin.

Plus I wouldn't be able to fit in any other food - so it would be a diet of starch, fibre, hardly any protein or healthy fat, minimal vitamins and minerals (although of course commercial flour is fortified with some vits otherwise it would be virtually nutrientless).

Imagine what that would do to my body after a few years... shudder.

 

[LooperCat]

Sorry to stick out guys, but I just cannot accept that extreme low carb diet is possible or preferable for longstanding Type 1s like me. People are talking about 20gm carbs a day! That’s about 2 digestive biscuits in a whole day! An average hypo would need about 40gm carb to treat. I have been Type 1 on insulin for about 45 years, a veggie, of below average weight and with no obvious complications yet. I try to have a balanced law starch diet and carb count and inject (DAPHNE trained). I feel I have done quite well on an average 150gm carbs a day. Maybe I have just been lucky but I find this constant talk of extreme low carb diet rather tiring.

I operate quite happily on 20-30g a day, but then I don’t eat digestive biscuits. I can treat a hypo effectively with one or two 3g dextrose tablets as I have so much less insulin floating around.

 

[KK123]

Handbags at dawn in my case, not much of a physical fighter! But show me something that isn't just and I'm in there. I worked on the last census. Put £3000 worth of extra hours in as did many others across the country. Went to court to get that little monkey sorted only 8 of us in the end but i dont give up. Even got matching holiday pay. Shouldn't have to fight but sometimes when things aren't right you just have it to do. Anyway, my hand bag is massive with everything plus the kitchen sink in. Lethal weapon! Let's go!!!

Debandez, NEVER underestimate a woman with a handbag who is prepared to use it! Believe me, in my job, remembering that if nothing else has kept me alive.

 

[smw99]

This is what I got from my diabetic nurse at my first appointment in December sadly.

I find it sad that there are medical professionals still handing this out. If I ate this I imagine I would need insulin. As it is I have normal levels, feel energetic and well and take no medication for diabetes. I cost the NHS very little. I look after my health and I eat the most lovely food which contains little carbohydrate. Everyone needs to know that this disease does not need to be progressive and that we all have a choice. I don't think we should try to force low carb on people, just give everyone the information and let them make a choice.

 

[KK123]

To me, there are no rights and wrongs, individuals do what they feel they must to keep THEIR glucose levels steady. I do not have a problem with eating around 50 carbs a day and sometimes I will have a carb blow out. That is manageable for me as I can use a unit or 2 of insulin when I need to. I do not class all carbs as evil for ME, I like a slice of wholemeal bread for instance or some good old porridge and I consider those to be healthy carbs for ME. I don't eat sweets/cakes/crisps/pies/battered stuff etc as I don't think they are healthy as a whole. I try to be balanced not just for my glucose levels but for all those other pesky conditions that can hit a female of a certain age, diabetes or not. Having said all of that, if I were type 2 I WOULD go very low carb as what other choice would I have if I wanted to keep my glucose levels low. I understand what Glucotab means as well, for HIM going down to 20 carbs a day wouldn't be beneficial (unless he was unable to control his glucose levels and then maybe it would). So many variations.

 

[Debandez]

I find it sad that there are medical professionals still handing this out. If I ate this I imagine I would need insulin. As it is I have normal levels, feel energetic and well and take no medication for diabetes. I cost the NHS very little. I look after my health and I eat the most lovely food which contains little carbohydrate. Everyone needs to know that this disease does not need to be progressive and that we all have a choice. I don't think we should try to force low carb on people, just give everyone the information and let them make a choice.

You can take a horse to water but can't make it drink. But the NHS need to explain the choices to pts. And spell out the complications of progressive diabetes.

 

[Bluetit1802]

On the same page though is the suggestion to add baked beans to a jacket potato and salad for lunch.

That must be where my first nurse got it from. She told me point blank to eat a jacket potato for lunch as often as possible, and to add baked beans because it would slow down any glucose rise. She also told me I could eat anything I liked, in moderation. Even ice creams or a slice of cake. She also said low fat because of the calories as I needed to lose a bit of weight. I left her office a happy bunny because all the foods she mentioned were ones I was already eating, so I didn't need to change a thing!

 

[bulkbiker]

I have in front of me now the Diabetes UK 'Your Guide to Type 2 Diabetes' published in 2014. It takes 36 pages before it reaches food at all. On that page there is a recommendation to eat between 5 and 14 portions of starchy foods (ie bread, rice, potatoes or pasta) per day, one third of your diet. This is the eat well plate.

Tucked away on page 39 is: "the amount of carbohydrate you eat has the biggest influence on your blood glucose levels after meals" (my bolding). On the same page though is the suggestion to add baked beans to a jacket potato and salad for lunch.

I think we need a head in hands emoji for that one..

 

[satindoll]

I was just thinking......I actually owe the insulin DN (we have 2 at the surgery 1 does insulin the other non insulin diabetics) a vote of thanks, because if she hadn't given me such grief and made me feel so useless and stupid I would never have been brave enough to try Low Carbing.........the last time I saw her a couple of years ago she did ask how I'd managed to keep my hbA1c at 40 for over 5 years, she went ballistic when I told her and said 40 was way to low for an insulin user and besides I would never be able to come off insulin.........in the last statement she was sadly right as I don't produce enough of my own, but being able to drop the units needed from over 200 daily to 30...... give or take a few...... has made such a difference to my self esteem, as at last I feel I'm in charge dosing to cover my food, not eating to cover the insulin in an ever upward spiral.

 

[Moggely]

Oh I have moved on from that years ago, I just mention it here on the forum when it is relevant to a discussion.

The thing that upsets me the most is that the same GP did tests and found that I had fatty liver...and didn't tell me! A few years later another doctor told me about it but said that nothing could be done. I researched and improved it myself by low carbing. Firstly why would a GP withhold such information from a patient? Secondly to say nothing could be done about it is ridiculous, the info is out there. I bought a book about Syndrome X as soon as I was informed, but I did need that crucial bit of info before I could help myself. They were my blood tests results. I had a right to know them.

Another upsetting thing for me is that when an overweight person goes to a GP they do tests for blood glucose levels, but not for insulin levels. Since insulin is a fat building hormone I would have thought that that would be a good place to start if someone is piling on the pounds. I was insulin resistant for many years (20, 25?) before I became T2. I didn't know about IR then, but my doctors should have. All those years with too much insulin have damaged my body. I am pretty upset about that. I am trying to repair it now by low carbing so I really don't see why a lot of the medical profession can't see that carbs are a problem if someone is overweight. I have been left to my own devices and have struggled with simply living and being morbidly obese, that's why I take exception to someone saying we shouldn't criticize the professionals and defending them. Why are they there if not to help us?

The fact that so many of us have taken exception to a particular member's words defending HCPs means that we have all been in the same boat so it's not just one rotten apple. I think we all have a right to post about how HCPs being against LCHF has affected our health, the thread is about carbs and a doctor and DN

Ive just never come across it.

I under stand what you are saying @zand . One hundred percent that is why i responded to your post. I also could tell you a my story, bout my child, but i can't at the moment because i choose to forgive. I am not young you see, but am only trying to help. As for the other poster i have nothing to say really.. Please Zand you can move on as i did. Thank you for being respectful and for listening.

 

[Chronicle_Cat]

I have in front of me now the Diabetes UK 'Your Guide to Type 2 Diabetes' published in 2014. It takes 36 pages before it reaches food at all. On that page there is a recommendation to eat between 5 and 14 portions of starchy foods (ie bread, rice, potatoes or pasta) per day, one third of your diet. This is the eat well plate.

Tucked away on page 39 is: "the amount of carbohydrate you eat has the biggest influence on your blood glucose levels after meals" (my bolding). On the same page though is the suggestion to add baked beans to a jacket potato and salad for lunch.

It's similar here (Ontario, Canada). One of the pamphlets for diabetes education here is sponsored by the ***Canadian Wheat Marketing Board*** and suggests a 1/4 plate of grains/starchy foods. The American Diabetes association isn't any better.

Many of diabetic cookbooks available (both Canadian and American) have some of the dishes in them are 60-75 g carbs each (for a single dish, not the entire meal.)

I realize that not everyone with Type 2 wants to eat low carb and the amount of carbs they choose to eat varies but newly diagnosed Type 2s should be told that it is an effective way of reducing glucose levels.

 

[Moggely]

Ive just never come across it.

Yes you did@Debandez It was in your post to me. If you don't see it, it is because you put in a post. Once again i say to you, in all good will. Have a good day/night were ever you hail from.

 

[Moggely]

Oh I have moved on from that years ago, I just mention it here on the forum when it is relevant to a discussion.

The thing that upsets me the most is that the same GP did tests and found that I had fatty liver...and didn't tell me! A few years later another doctor told me about it but said that nothing could be done. I researched and improved it myself by low carbing. Firstly why would a GP withhold such information from a patient? Secondly to say nothing could be done about it is ridiculous, the info is out there. I bought a book about Syndrome X as soon as I was informed, but I did need that crucial bit of info before I could help myself. They were my blood tests results. I had a right to know them.

Another upsetting thing for me is that when an overweight person goes to a GP they do tests for blood glucose levels, but not for insulin levels. Since insulin is a fat building hormone I would have thought that that would be a good place to start if someone is piling on the pounds. I was insulin resistant for many years (20, 25?) before I became T2. I didn't know about IR then, but my doctors should have. All those years with too much insulin have damaged my body. I am pretty upset about that. I am trying to repair it now by low carbing so I really don't see why a lot of the medical profession can't see that carbs are a problem if someone is overweight. I have been left to my own devices and have struggled with simply living and being morbidly obese, that's why I take exception to someone saying we shouldn't criticize the professionals and defending them. Why are they there if not to help us?

The fact that so many of us have taken exception to a particular member's words defending HCPs means that we have all been in the same boat so it's not just one rotten apple. I think we all have a right to post about how HCPs being against LCHF has affected our health, the thread is about carbs and a doctor and DN

I understand all of what you are saying@zand and your pain and suffering about your child. I could also tell you about the very same thing. I can't however because it would be to long, I simply choose not to be a victim and became the victor over it all ,through ''''''''"forgiveness..' I can't say any more and hope that you ,will like me ,be the victor.....You go girl... Monica. Wishing you all the best. Be strong.

 

[Motherhen2014]

So I have an appointment coming up and I will be quizzed about my diet (low carb and working very well). What do you say when you are lectured about eating carbs and how important they are. I’m fed up smiling sweetly and agreeing. I keep getting told I need carbs yet doing just fine on 20g a day. Thanks x

My doctor went crazy when I said I was on a low carb diet, he asked why and I told him I want to get into Ketosis, wrong thing to say. But I have lost 1 stone 2lbs since starting low carb. My doctor was ok when I agreed to have a small amount of carbs and is now happy with me.
We know what our bodies need so keep going friend.

 

[zand]

I understand all of what you are saying@zand and your pain and suffering about your child. I could also tell you about the very same thing. I can't however because it would be to long, I simply choose not to be a victim and became the victor over it all ,through ''''''''"forgiveness..' I can't say any more and hope that you ,will like me ,be the victor.....You go girl... Monica. Wishing you all the best. Be strong.

Trust me, after 28 sessions of counselling to recover from PTSD I am no victim. I actually wish I had had more of a victim mentality because I should have taken one GP to court (not any of the ones I have ever talked about on this forum, ) to save others going through what he put me through. I didn't sue him because I didn't want compensation and I didn't want the hassle, I just wanted to move on, but now, 30 years later I feel guilty for not doing anything and just walking away when I could have saved others from going through what I went through. I understand all about forgiveness and have talked about it on here a few times, but there's times when just turning the other cheek isn't right and we should stand up and be counted.

I am not bitter about my past, any of it, but I do get upset when someone tries to defend the indefensible (like the NHS guidelines telling an obese T2 that they should eat carbs with every meal) That is just plain wrong and I will always stand up and say so. I am not a victim to that dreadful advice anymore and I want to help others to get free from it too. I respect those HCPs who deserve respect.

 

[Honeyend]

Hello Flora123

I’m a GP. Try this...

‘I eat real unprocessed food, and a low enough carb level to keep my blood glucose normal. I’m told that my body makes glucose so I don’t need to eat it.’

The process by which the body makes sugar is called gluconeogenesis.
Many people forget this in their zeal to follow outdated guidelines. Technology proves to us that they are wrong.
Nice guidance states we should give individualised carbohydrate advice, and low GI, so if you need to go as low as 20g to keep your blood glucose normal, that is the right amount for you. Not a lot of people know that yet. It is in NICE type 2 Diabetes December 2015 1.1.1 and 1.3.3.
Hope that makes sense.
There are great courses about this now from the Public Health Collaboration and Inspired Medics that they could sign up with, but they are relatively new.

That was the NICE quote I was looking for.Thank you.

 

[kitedoc]

Then learn not to bully, which many of you do. My criticism was not about your chosen way but the disrespect. You might not be one and I can't be bothered to look back and check, but there were plenty. I am glad my patients respected me better and proud we achieved our goals.

Sent from my SGP611 using Diabetes Forum mobile app

I might help your view to state whether you are or have been a health care provider, as the last sentence here suggests. If you feel that you as a present or past health professional has been personally criticised, stating that might help to clear the air.
As a past health professional myself I try to stick to personal experiences and sometimes anecdotes/stories of fellow diabetics where I believe these are accurate and helpful.
There is sometimes a fine line between relating one's own experience and appearing to be giving advice. That is where moderators have a part to play in keeping that line clear.
Difference of opinion is part of what can make a forum useful, just like the phrase ' a Government is only as strong as its Opposition party.' But we also know how disrespectful politicians can be!

 

[Guzzler]

I might help your view to state whether you are or have been a health care provider, as the last sentence here suggests. If you feel that you as a present or past health professional has been personally criticised, stating that might help to clear the air.
As a past health professional myself I try to stick to personal experiences and sometimes anecdotes/stories of fellow diabetics where I believe these are accurate and helpful.
There is sometimes a fine line between relating one's own experience and appearing to be giving advice. That is where moderators have a part to play in keeping that line clear.
Difference of opinion is part of what can make a forum useful, just like the phrase ' a Government is only as strong as its Opposition party.' But we also know how disrespectful politicians can be!

@kitedoc
You may not get a reply because the member has requested that her account be closed. While there is always a chance that Sani might reconsider I think it unlikely.

 

[kitedoc]

@kitedoc
You may not get a reply because the member has requested that her account be closed. While there is always a chance that Sani might reconsider I think it unlikely.

Thank you @Guzzler, I saw that but felt I needed to say something for the record.
I do hope all forum members keep the account open.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I might help your view to state whether you are or have been a health care provider, as the last sentence here suggests. If you feel that you as a present or past health professional has been personally criticised, stating that might help to clear the air.
As a past health professional myself I try to stick to personal experiences and sometimes anecdotes/stories of fellow diabetics where I believe these are accurate and helpful.
There is sometimes a fine line between relating one's own experience and appearing to be giving advice. That is where moderators have a part to play in keeping that line clear.
Difference of opinion is part of what can make a forum useful, just like the phrase ' a Government is only as strong as its Opposition party.' But we also know how disrespectful politicians can be!

She said earlier on in the thread somewhere that she has 30 years of nursing experience.