Dr Jason Fung mauled by impeccable logic of Calorie Restriction fans...

[copilost]

If you want to lose weight without access to labs you've pretty much got two choices.
Get extreme https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/may/12/type-2-diabetes-diet-cure
or find your typical calorie requirement for your age, gender and activity level, then experiment. Drop the calories, drop them some more, add some.
All depends on what you want to achieve and how quickly.

You'd think that's true, but what if it isn't? What if there were alternatives that work for you? What would you do? Why would you judge?

 

[ATZ]

Perhaps you may find the 'Carbohydrate Insulin Model' interesting research, after all this is a Diabetes site not only a weight loss site.

Which has been refuted and debunked beyond belief outside of some true believers like Fung and Taubes who have vested interests in continuing to promote it as a valid hypothesis.

 

[ATZ]

Just to further the point:

 

[copilost]

Just to further the point:

Sugar calculated as what?

 

[copilost]

Just to further the point:

carb calculated how

 

[Guzzler]

Which has been refuted and debunked beyond belief outside of some true believers like Fung and Taubes who have vested interests in continuing to promote it as a valid hypothesis.

Dr. Fung and Gary Taubes are by no means alone in their opinions on CIM. There are many who espouse low carb for weight loss and Diabetes management, even the NHS is making tentative steps in recognising (and giving practitioners permission) to prescribe to patients.

 

[DCUKMod]

It would be helpful if the forum didn't recognise most links as spam

The forum does not accept links from brand new members. Once a posting history is established, forum and topic appropriate links are allowed.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi and welcome to our diabetes forum, @ATZ and @AnthonyDee
It is always good to see new members here.

I see that you are both in your thirties, both signed up today, and have both only posted on this thread.
I also note that neither of you have completed your profiles fully, so you have not explained your connection with diabetes, medications, and any other relevant details.

So (obviously this is speculation) I am wondering what drew you to this forum, this thread, today?
Could it be that you have vested interests in this subject?
Perhaps your careers? Perhaps a personal connection to the article being discussed?

Or maybe you have wonderful personal stories about how marvellously CICO has worked for you?

If so, I am sure that our members would love to hear the details - after all, this is a forum filled with endless painful, sometimes tragic, stories of how modern medical thinking has affected our health. And so many of us have personal experience of exactly what does, and doesn’t work for our individual bodies. We are, to a member, unique individuals, whose experiences rarely fit on to the middle of the bell curve. After all, if we did sit comfortably on that curve, we probably wouldn’t need to be here.

So please, I am sure I speak for everyone here when I encourage you to tell us your personal stories, and your personal experiences with CICO, and your reasons for joining the forum today, and posting on just this thread.

 

[ATZ]

Sugar calculated as what?

The source is listed in the graphic

 

[DCUKMod]

@ATZ - where you are linking to science, please provide your sources, not merely images.

Thank you.

 

[ATZ]

Hi and welcome to our diabetes forum, @ATZ and @AnthonyDee
It is always good to see new members here.

I see that you are both in your thirties, both signed up today, and have both only posted on this thread.
I also note that neither of you have completed your profiles fully, so you have not explained your connection with diabetes, medications, and any other relevant details.

So (obviously this is speculation) I am wondering what drew you to this forum, this thread, today?
Could it be that you have vested interests in this subject?
Perhaps your careers? Perhaps a personal connection to the article being discussed?

Or maybe you have wonderful personal stories about how marvellously CICO has worked for you?

If so, I am sure that our members would love to hear the details - after all, this is a forum filled with endless painful, sometimes tragic, stories of how modern medical thinking has affected their health. And so many of us have personal experience of exactly what does, and doesn’t work for our individual bodies. We are, to a member, unique individuals, whose experiences rarely fit on to the middle of the bell curve. After all, if we did sit comfortably on that curve, we probably wouldn’t be here, since we wouldn’t need to be.

So please, I am sure I speak for everyone here when I encourage you to tell us your personal stories, and your personal experiences with CICO, and your reasons for joining the forum today, and posting on just this thread.

Hi Brunneria.

I'm a fully qualified nutritionist and I happend across this thread as it was linked to the critique of the original article.

My my interest is to stop the spread of misinformation on the topic. That somehow CICO is outdated or doesn't work.

I've worked with and continue to work with clients who are type 1 or type 2 diabetic and the spread of pseudoscience through mediums like this forum doesn't help people. It just confuses them further. Especially somewhere where people will actively come to see advice on help with their conditions.

That's pretty much all my interest. I'm not here to sell anything (or I'd have completed my profile) or have an axe to grind.

The fact is Low carb or LCHF diets work by getting people to eat less over time. They work for some and not others that much is true, but fundamentally work by the same rules as any other effective weight control diet, that is CICO.

 

[bulkbiker]

one of the very first diets for the treatment of overweight diabetics

Was in fact Banting's Low carb diet from 1863 not 1939 and Banting didn't require the horse whip either.

 

[ATZ]

@ATZ - where you are linking to science, please provide your sources, not merely images.

Thank you.

The sources are linked in the both graphics. I can't link due to the forum restrictions.

Shen et al 2016 and Dr Stephan Guynet a prominent obesity researcher. A quick google brings both up.

 

[AnthonyDee]

Hi and welcome to our diabetes forum, @ATZ and @AnthonyDee
It is always good to see new members here.

I see that you are both in your thirties, both signed up today, and have both only posted on this thread.
I also note that neither of you have completed your profiles fully, so you have not explained your connection with diabetes, medications, and any other relevant details.

So (obviously this is speculation) I am wondering what drew you to this forum, this thread, today?
Could it be that you have vested interests in this subject?
Perhaps your careers? Perhaps a personal connection to the article being discussed?

Or maybe you have wonderful personal stories about how marvellously CICO has worked for you?

If so, I am sure that our members would love to hear the details - after all, this is a forum filled with endless painful, sometimes tragic, stories of how modern medical thinking has affected our health. And so many of us have personal experience of exactly what does, and doesn’t work for our individual bodies. We are, to a member, unique individuals, whose experiences rarely fit on to the middle of the bell curve. After all, if we did sit comfortably on that curve, we probably wouldn’t need to be here.

So please, I am sure I speak for everyone here when I encourage you to tell us your personal stories, and your personal experiences with CICO, and your reasons for joining the forum today, and posting on just this thread.

Hi there,

I'm a personal trainer and nutrition researcher for a living.

I've spent thousands of hours researching and writing about nutrition, and have coached dozens of diabetics who have successfully lost weight and reversed diabetes.

I found this thread shared in a Facebook group and was amazed by how many people here don't "believe" in the energy balance equation.

I think trying to help better inform people here is an obligation of mine.

I would love to share links to peer reviewed research, but I can't seem to be able to share anything.

 

[ATZ]

Was in fact Banting's Low carb diet from 1863 not 1939 and Banting didn't require the horse whip either.

Banting's diet was for himself. It wasn't a treatment used in helping those with hypertension, diabetes and other conditions of excess bodyweight or studied in a research setting.

Have a read around the Kempner Rice Diet.

 

[DCUKMod]

The sources are linked in the both graphics. I can't link due to the forum restrictions.

Shen et al 2016 and Dr Stephan Guynet a prominent obesity researcher. A quick google brings both up.

You should be able to,post links by now, unless they are to site found troublesome in the past.

 

[bulkbiker]

The sources are linked in the both graphics. I can't link due to the forum restrictions.

Shen et al 2016 and Dr Stephan Guynet a prominent obesity researcher. A quick google brings both up.

And Guyenet's graph scale is a case in point about data manipulation.. a reduction from 510g of carbs per day to 470g of carbs per day is hardly going to reverse obesity in the USA now is it?
Today I had 3g of carbs..

 

[bulkbiker]

Banting's diet was for himself. It wasn't a treatment used in helping those with hypertension, diabetes and other conditions of excess bodyweight or studied in a research setting.

Have a read around the Kempner Rice Diet.

Trouble for you is it worked..
Both for me and for many others here.

 

[ATZ]

And Guyenet's graph scale is a case in point about data manipulation.. a reduction from 510g of carbs per day to 470g of carbs per day is hardly going to reverse obesity in the USA now is it?
Today I had 3g of carbs..

No it is not. But if carbs are driving obesity why the continued upward trend?

If you look at the data on added consumption of calories to American diets they are eating about 500kcal more per day than they were in 1970 and the bulk of that is from addes dietary fats...

 

[Deleted member 308541]

Have a read around the Kempner Rice Diet.

Plurry rice would be the downfall of me if I was to use that for a diet plan.

I will will stick to my moderate low carb high fat way, and contioue to have good bgl as per the graph in my sig,