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Dr Jason Fung mauled by impeccable logic of Calorie Restriction fans...

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by pdmjoker, Jul 14, 2019.

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  1. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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  2. pdmjoker

    pdmjoker Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    That sounds horrendous, but doesn't totally surprise me, either... So unfair. Cruel, even?
     
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  3. ATZ

    ATZ · Well-Known Member

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    In which case you didn't truly reduce calories. Or your output adapted.

    Because every time it is done in a metabolic ward humans consistently and predictably lose weight.

    The issue is implementing it in free living conditions.
     
  4. copilost

    copilost Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    so how do you calculate what goes in (is it equivalent for everything or does it differ), what is available, what is accessible, what is used? is your assessment robust (repeatable), does it apply to everyone or are there individual differences?
     
  5. ATZ

    ATZ · Well-Known Member

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    CICO is a law of physics. It works for everyone when applied properly. The issue is people don't understand it.

    Outside of certain disease states your metabolism isn't broken.
     
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  6. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Read the thread I quoted!!!
     
  7. pdmjoker

    pdmjoker Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Very good point, that we are all different and the topic is extremely complicated! Thank you!

    If you essentially eat just meat and eating too much raises your blood sugar, perhaps it is too much protein (rather than too many calories) that are the problem? Just a thought...
     
  8. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    And these 'disease states' are?

    If my metabolism is not broken then how come I have IR and hyperinsulineamia and hyperglycaemia (this last is now managed by ignoring calories and taking care, instead, of carbohydrate intake)? Type 2 Diabetes is not a disease of calories it is a disease of intolerance.
     
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  9. Larissima

    Larissima Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm sort of amazed that some people don't understand that a human body is a complex biological system with numerous inputs, feedback loops and outpus, not an isolated closed vat full of gas... Or they just don't understand where thermodynamics applies.
     
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  10. copilost

    copilost Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Free living conditions include internal feedback loops. What if your body is struggling to deal with sugar but at the same time sending messages it's hungry because the body is all out of whack (technical term). So the individual is making appropriate choices based on the messages the body is sending which are also correspondingly negative for the body. Conclusion is free living conditions are dangerous, especially if you are ill informed (or mislead).
     
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  11. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

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    Ladies and gents, please remain civil or posts will be deleted and so on.

    Where claims are made to science, please post links to back up claims,
     
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  12. Richard'63

    Richard'63 Prefer not to say · Active Member

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    Unless you have a shed load of money, access to a metabolic ward, and plenty of time then for the individual trial and error. Or you could read the many stories available from recovering anorexics.
     
  13. Richard'63

    Richard'63 Prefer not to say · Active Member

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    Thermodynamics apply everywhere!
     
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  14. copilost

    copilost Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    but that's the point your generalisation isn't valid without that input, so you can't judge (or know).
     
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  15. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    as you read around the posters on this forum, you will find several of us in this situation of living on very little food and not losing weight. It happens. Humans are complex creatures and we vary in our responses to many things. Its well known when out hormonal systems are out of kilter.
     
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  16. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  17. AnthonyDee

    AnthonyDee · Member

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    I think that the biggest issue with CICO is the (incorrect) assumptions most people make about it.

    I would highly recommend people read the CICO article on the same website (Myolean Fitness) before attempting to dismiss CICO.
     
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  18. ATZ

    ATZ · Well-Known Member

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    It would be helpful if the forum didn't recognise most links as spam
     
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  19. Richard'63

    Richard'63 Prefer not to say · Active Member

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    If you want to lose weight without access to labs you've pretty much got two choices.
    Get extreme https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/may/12/type-2-diabetes-diet-cure
    or find your typical calorie requirement for your age, gender and activity level, then experiment. Drop the calories, drop them some more, add some.
    All depends on what you want to achieve and how quickly.
     
  20. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Perhaps you may find the 'Carbohydrate Insulin Model' interesting research, after all this is a Diabetes site not only a weight loss site.
     
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