Obesity, T2 and my right to eat the diet that will heal me

[Winnie53]

In the middle of a huge project at the moment, but really enjoying reading what's being posted, though don't have the time to read the links at the moment. Will do so when I have more time to get completely caught up with you all.

 

[bulkbiker]

I wouldn’t approach an archaeologist about diabetes.

Strange ...as quite a lot of people say they have benefitted from this archaeologists take on T2.. hey ho..

 

[Listlad]

Strange ...as quite a lot of people say they have benefitted from this archaeologists take on T2.. hey ho..

Like I say, why twist the archaeology to beef up lchf when lchf stands on its own anyway.

If I wanted to be more sure on the topic I would probably want to speak to a guy like this:

https://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/archaeology/people/academics/barton/hb

“I specialise in Southeast Asian prehistory, the archaeology and anthropology of hunters & gatherers, prehistoric diet, hunter-gatherer management of wild plants, vegecultures, and the origins of tropical agriculture. My doctoral work was an investigation of surface lithic scatters in the Simpson Desert of western Queensland. In that work I approached the analysis of lithic scatters through the theoretical frameworks of Human Behavioural Ecology and Technological Organisation. I also specialise in the analysis of organic residues on artefacts and am an expert in the analysis of ancient starch granules as an indicator of prehistoric plant use that is opening windows not just into human diet, but also that of primates, past and present.”

 

[Listlad]

More give with 1 hand take with the other. Again red meat causing cancer....strange that in the same article they effectively say meat heavy tribes have no non-communicable diseases including Type 2 or heart disease (this is what my research turns up all of the time), as well as clear observational evidence say in Britain say in 1960, or take any snapshot pre-1980. I know the absolute risk for cancer and processed and red meat, maximal 1.2 when smoking relates to cancer at 20 - 30; I think again 30% of this article I can file under "the bin", talk about trying to have your cake and eat it on the facts. Meat eaters dying at 45, really, when the longest lived in Hong Kong are double that and some...yawn.

Does the anti lchf conspiracy really extend to the National Geographic magazine? The more I read and hear, it would seem that the anti lchf conspiracy must exist in all academic circles too. Surely not?

 

[Listlad]

@zand

Whilst googling for material on Stone Age eating habits I came across this if you haven’t seen it already:

https://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/food/

And this:

https://www.futureoffood.ox.ac.uk/

 

[Mbaker]

Does the anti lchf conspiracy really extend to the National Geographic magazine? The more I read and hear, it would seem that the anti lchf conspiracy must exist in all academic circles too. Surely not?

Yes, they would take their references from standard sources.

I learned in my Karate days not to "appeal to authority", this is how I achieved the British championship. I know the stuff coming out of Oxford (UK) and Harvard is garbage, National Geographic are just another name, with humans behind it, now get me some superior aliens and I will accept if shown, their authority; at this stage I will not listen to non low carb Doctor, Dietition, etc for example, I would rather trust for my health a £15.00 blood glucose monitor, would I be wrong after almost 5 years of study and real world testing.

I have a reference on this site where I said I wanted to do less meat, this is how easy it is to believe everything out there (needless to say this is no longer my thought).

Here's a common sense example, before getting Type 2, I was an Omnivore, so meat and fish was in my diet, now I eat more meat and my Type 2 is reversed and my biomarkers are improved, - this is true of over 90% approximately of reversed Type 2's who at the least continue to eat meat, have you seen the biomarkers of those who take part in Carnivore Corner, some have HbA1cs of 29 to low 30's, low crp and insulin. Another common sense observation when I was growing up hardly anyone was fat / overweight (perhaps a Gran or Grandad), meat and dairy were pre-dominant, I can even remember getting milk at school everyday - those days liver and bacon, steak and kidney pie, home cooking mainly, cheap meat cuts / stews, beef dripping, lard. I talk to my Father In Law and know the truth about the foods of his childhood, I know my wifes Grandad used to get a single Orange for Christmas as a treat.

I can't recall the name of the trial but when vegetarians and meat eaters who shop at whole food stores are compared, there are no differences between predicted outcomes.

The same so called accepted facts are why statins are mainstream, low fat high carb fruit and veg is great (I believe low GI are alright).

This is a kicker that is still a fact:

So still chronic and progressive, should I believe this or my avatar.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

If they bury all the Nuclear waste from Sellarfield they could use ground source heat pumps to turn it into available energy.
I just don't like the idea of having hot feet.

NZ and Iceland are good sources of thermal energy, perhaps Britain's Trump should buy Iceland!
D.

He can keep his tiny hands off NZ.

 

[Bluecarnation]

why should it be a choice when the science is wrong about going veggie to avert climate change?

This discussion is about dietary choices, not choices between fuel and food.

The problem with science is that research is always changing and we are told to change as new theories are developed, we need to use common sense and sensible eating.

 

[Mike d]

Theories? Odd ....

 

[Scott-C]

Statistics aren't really my thing, so I'll just leave this here:

https://nutritionalrevolution.org/2019/02/10/macronutrients-part-1/

The author has looked at USDA data, which is derived from what shops in America have been selling, and he reckons it indicates that far from the populace heeding government guidelines, they've been buying and eating more fat and fewer carbs, and attributes rising obesity and T2 to that.

I don't have a view on this but found it an interesting approach and will leave it to the statisticians to discuss.

 

[lucylocket61]

I do wonder if the rise of trans fats in previous decades, and now interestified fats, has some effect on our bodies that other fats do not. The above graph would make more sense if that it the case.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5497165/
Article title: What are interesterified fats and should we be worried about them in our diet?

 

[Dr Snoddy]

One possibility is that we are just consuming more food faster. And if that sounds glib it is possible to eat a 700kcal burger in under 5 minutes. Only limited chewing is required and the brain has little time to register that chewing and swallowing have taken place. Meals prepared from scratch using fresh ingredients have little processing and usually require more chewing and swallowing.

 

[Mbaker]

Statistics aren't really my thing, so I'll just leave this here:

https://nutritionalrevolution.org/2019/02/10/macronutrients-part-1/

The author has looked at USDA data, which is derived from what shops in America have been selling, and he reckons it indicates that far from the populace heeding government guidelines, they've been buying and eating more fat and fewer carbs, and attributes rising obesity and T2 to that.

I don't have a view on this but found it an interesting approach and will leave it to the statisticians to discuss.

View attachment 35340

This is why nothing can be taken at face value. I am not saying my facts are better than those presented, but I see this more often:

Why are nuts included with meat, that's the first problem. Do we really believe grains are down. Beef consumption has absolutely gone down, poultry has gone up. I believe many who are optimising on Keto / Carnivore see poultry as pleasant but inferior to beef / lamp / oxtail and similar i.e. red meat, mainly due to the Omega 6 count.

It is disingenuous to claim that fats have gone up. Another slight of hand, many of us do not consider vegetable (seed) oils, canola, margarine, and the like as fats. For completeness for newbies the accepted wisdom for those on a LCHF and similar are that natural fats in meat (preferably grass finished), butter, ghee, lard, beef tallow, coconut / mct oil and then perhaps avocado oil are what are deemed as "real" fats.

We know that the current standard diets are over 60% plant / sugar / vegetable oil based and a PHD is not required to prove this practically. If you look at (generalising, not including "healthier stuff)) breakfast this is some sugary grain based cereal or bread / toast with something like Nutella, jam, a breakfast bar, smoothie, usually something sweet and a sweet drink (so mainly flour, vegetable oil and sugar), mainly carb based. Lunch is something like a bagel, panini, bread something, pastry, chips, potato, crisps, fast food, milk chocolate, a sweet fruit (mainly flour, carbs), fizzy drink or similar. Dinner - potato based something, rice, pasta, ready meal fast food, sauce, meat / fish (maybe processed, breaded), pizza, Chinese, Indian, alcohol, fruit juice (flour, veg oil, sugar, carbs). I have noticed in the UK and across Europe when I travel, that double carbs or more are often used within a meal i.e. rice and chips with a meal. I have missed out snacks, as any who has bought petrol knows them all.

 

[lindisfel]

He can keep his tiny hands off NZ.

I know you wild colonial boys, you would have his guts for garters!

 

[bulkbiker]

I'd love to know what those fats are.
We would have most animal fats included in the meat and eggs section
Dairy will have milk, butter and cream.
So that can only leave vegetable oils presumably. Toxic, factory produced inflammation triggers.

I see Mr Bass kindly doesn't consider that.

 

[lucylocket61]

In my limited experience, people round here dont think of any seed or nut oils, or spreads, or olive oil as fats. They refer to fats as lard, butter, suet, and the lovely tasty bits on meat (if you can find meat with fat on round here)

 

[lindisfel]

I'd love to know what those fats are.
We would have most animal fat included in the meat and eggs section
Dairy will have milk, butter and cream.
So that can only leave vegetable oils presumably. Toxic, factory produced inflammation triggers.

I see Mr Bass kindly doesn't consider that.

Eating bread and dripping never made me fat, but neither did rice pudding made with whole milk or fish and chips cooked in lard.

You would have said most kids looked undernourished in the 1950's.
D.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

I know you wild colonial boys, you would have his guts for garters!

Absolutely. We wild colonial gals would have more than his guts!

 

[Deleted member 308541]

Eating bread and dripping never made me fat, but neither did rice pudding made with whole milk or fish and chips cooked in lard.

You would have said most kids looked undernourished in the 1950's.
D.

I ate that stuff as well, 'cept the fish and chips were done in dripping, bread pudding was a firm favourite if we had any stale bread.

War and post war time rationing in the UK kept people alive, but I can remember being hungry as a kid still

 

[Listlad]

Yes, they would take their references from standard sources.

I learned in my Karate days not to "appeal to authority", this is how I achieved the British championship. I know the stuff coming out of Oxford (UK) and Harvard is garbage, National Geographic are just another name, with humans behind it, now get me some superior aliens and I will accept if shown, their authority; at this stage I will not listen to non low carb Doctor, Dietition, etc for example, I would rather trust for my health a £15.00 blood glucose monitor, would I be wrong after almost 5 years of study and real world testing.

I have a reference on this site where I said I wanted to do less meat, this is how easy it is to believe everything out there (needless to say this is no longer my thought).

Here's a common sense example, before getting Type 2, I was an Omnivore, so meat and fish was in my diet, now I eat more meat and my Type 2 is reversed and my biomarkers are improved, - this is true of over 90% approximately of reversed Type 2's who at the least continue to eat meat, have you seen the biomarkers of those who take part in Carnivore Corner, some have HbA1cs of 29 to low 30's, low crp and insulin. Another common sense observation when I was growing up hardly anyone was fat / overweight (perhaps a Gran or Grandad), meat and dairy were pre-dominant, I can even remember getting milk at school everyday - those days liver and bacon, steak and kidney pie, home cooking mainly, cheap meat cuts / stews, beef dripping, lard. I talk to my Father In Law and know the truth about the foods of his childhood, I know my wifes Grandad used to get a single Orange for Christmas as a treat.

I can't recall the name of the trial but when vegetarians and meat eaters who shop at whole food stores are compared, there are no differences between predicted outcomes.

The same so called accepted facts are why statins are mainstream, low fat high carb fruit and veg is great (I believe low GI are alright).

This is a kicker that is still a fact:
View attachment 35335
So still chronic and progressive, should I believe this or my avatar.

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you are saying in your post.

I do question the bit about when exactly ancient man started eating carbohydrates. The rest I am comfortable with. On going carnivore, I choose not to for a number of reasons. If I need to at some point then I will.